Alec's best of the forum (and elsewhere) [v2]

Sysmon

Sysmon
Riverside said:
There have been a few changes that have removed functionality, or mean that a player can no longer go back & do something they used to do. Fleet Carriers functionality isn't one of them, although the way fuel availability (a core gameplay element for travelling with a carrier) could be considered similarly if it is not just yet another bug.

What Carriers do, is open up lots of potential for new huge challenges and projects without taking anything away from those that wish to do something the hard way or the way they used to for the hell of it.
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This is such a bizarre line of argument. I am not sure how it is possible (or even why it would be needed) to ignore major additions to the game just for a need to keep playing in a certain way. Rather it would have been great if the new additions to the game were added in a manner that made them not water down what made Elite Dangerous great to near insignificance.

DSSA seemed like a preposterous player initiative when it was launched, well before we knew what the carriers would end up looking like. The entitled whine from carrier explorers was deafening when the carriers then came about, and having FD cave in and make them into weirdly godlike ships rather than, well, the mobile stations they were presented as, just threw fuel on the flames of entitlement of a certain subsection of the exploration community.

If you want to carry on with some sort of John Henry-like resignation to the changes, fine. However, wouldn't it have been better if the carriers were made to work right from the outset? Carriers continue to not work very well with the rest of the game, and it looks like FD is happy to just let the game hobble along until the next big DLC. If that is a near-complete rewrite, hopefully carriers will then be made to work right.

:D S
 

Riverside

Riverside
Sysmon said:
This is such a bizarre line of argument. I am not sure how it is possible (or even why it would be needed) to ignore major additions to the game just for a need to keep playing in a certain way. Rather it would have been great if the new additions to the game were added in a manner that made them not water down what made Elite Dangerous great to near insignificance.

DSSA seemed like a preposterous player initiative when it was launched, well before we knew what the carriers would end up looking like. The entitled whine from carrier explorers was deafening when the carriers then came about, and having FD cave in and make them into weirdly godlike ships rather than, well, the mobile stations they were presented as, just threw fuel on the flames of entitlement of a certain subsection of the exploration community.

If you want to carry on with some sort of John Henry-like resignation to the changes, fine. However, wouldn't it have been better if the carriers were made to work right from the outset? Carriers continue to not work very well with the rest of the game, and it looks like FD is happy to just let the game hobble along until the next big DLC. If that is a near-complete rewrite, hopefully carriers will then be made to work right.

:D S
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The point is you can. I used to spend days trawling over planets in the SRV & flying the ship, looking for what we now call persistent POIs. Found a few, maybe a dozen in 18 months of looking. I can still do that, just by not fitting the new version of the DSS module. It also has the advantage of not showing the blue grid over mapped planets even in analysis mode.


My point is a very simple one I wrote in reply to Alec, which is that while the galaxy may feel smaller it hasn't changed, and is still the maze of dead ends and adventure it was in 2015 or earlier in what would now be considered a less than optimal ship. There is nothing bizarre about that objective clarification, only your interpretation of it.

We have access to new features that arguably motivate players to want new galaxies to explore as GJ51 implies, but the existing one remains the same challenge it always was to the same ships that were originally used to reach places like SagA* and Beagle Point.
 

iain666

iain666
Riverside said:
The point is you can. I used to spend days trawling over planets in the SRV & flying the ship, looking for what we now call persistent POIs. Found a few, maybe a dozen in 18 months of looking. I can still do that, just by not fitting the new version of the DSS module. It also has the advantage of not showing the blue grid over mapped planets even in analysis mode.


My point is a very simple one I wrote in reply to Alec, which is that while the galaxy may feel smaller it hasn't changed, and is still the maze of dead ends and adventure it was in 2015 or earlier in what would now be considered a less than optimal ship. There is nothing bizarre about that objective clarification, only your interpretation of it.

We have access to new features that arguably motivate players to want new galaxies to explore as GJ51 implies, but the existing one remains the same challenge it always was to the same ships that were originally used to reach places like SagA* and Beagle Point.
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Nah, Alex nailed it with the Everest rest rooms.

Taking a ship you could've built in 2015 and doing stuff with it may be objectively the same thing but the fact that you know you have chosen to limit yourself by flying what was good 5 years ago but no longer is makes it a subjectively different experience.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
iain666 said:
Nah, Alex nailed it with the Everest rest rooms.

Taking a ship you could've built in 2015 and doing stuff with it may be objectively the same thing but the fact that you know you have chosen to limit yourself by flying what was good 5 years ago but no longer is makes it a subjectively different experience.
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I went to scale Mt. Fuji while I lived in Japan. It is exactly that: You basically walk up in a conga line and there are plenty of stops on the way up. The experience is mostly about immersing yourself in a huge crowd of Japanese shuffling up and down what almost feel like a pilgrimage rather than climbing a peak. From stories I have heard and read, Mt. Everest has been on it's way to becoming something similar.

The problem with carriers is they are part of the "bigger, more, faster" mentality that pervades many games as it is like crack to many gamers. Do we really have people already pining for more galaxies to explore? We are not nearly done with this one - in fact, we haven't even fully explored any single solar system! Having such fast and inconsequential travel means just takes away from the galactic detail.

The carriers, in the way they were implemented, was a huge mistake which can only be seen as a short-sighted attempt by FD to cater to a subset of the community that are averse to challenges in game play. But ED was always about challenges, including challenging patience at times. Bypassing these challenges effectively dilutes the game. For everybody.

:D S
 

Riverside

Riverside
iain666 said:
Nah, Alex nailed it with the Everest rest rooms.

Taking a ship you could've built in 2015 and doing stuff with it may be objectively the same thing but the fact that you know you have chosen to limit yourself by flying what was good 5 years ago but no longer is makes it a subjectively different experience.
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Seems to me you agree with my point of clarification. If you don't want to do something that's fine, my point is you still can.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
Riverside said:
Seems to me you agree with my point of clarification. If you don't want to do something that's fine, my point is you still can.
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And my point is that just because I can doesn't mean it is interesting to do anymore. Part of the fun was doing the same as everybody else had to do, not having to restrict ourselves.

:D S
 

Riverside

Riverside
Sysmon said:
And my point is that just because I can doesn't mean it is interesting to do anymore. Part of the fun was doing the same as everybody else had to do, not having to restrict ourselves.

:D S
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Not interesting to you maybe. It is a very simple point, it is not difficult to grasp.
 

GJ51

GJ51
I think the main point is that what was an accomplishment in the past has been consistently devalued to the point of irrelevance.

I was thinking just yesterday of how exciting it was back in the day to get a mission that paid 12k cr. It took quite a while to get an Asp with enough cargo space to get those "high" paying missions, and they were pretty closely timed so that you had to get a move on once you accepted one if you were going to get to the destination on time.

And it was fun.

There was more player interaction back then, and you spent time in almost every ship available, because you needed to if you wanted enough credits to move up the ladder.

All that has been rendered irrelevant - which is why you see noobs asking basic questions about how to outfit their Cutters...

And why there are 15k FCs
 

dannysquid

dannysquid
I don't feel any of this has impacted me at all. To be honest, if I started over, I'd sort of like it to be a bit easier. Five years in and I still can't afford the big ships! But I use the game more to aimlessly wander about than to achieve much.
 

iain666

iain666
Riverside said:
Seems to me you agree with my point of clarification. If you don't want to do something that's fine, my point is you still can.
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Your point of "clarification" is technically correct but it is being used to cover an opinion which I wholly reject as a big old load of horse excrement.

When my eldest was 4 reading and understanding a sentence composed of a small number of single syllable words was an achievement worthy of praise. Now that she is 14, whilst it is objectively the same for her to do so, it no longer garners praise.

Playing a game is experiential, the subjective matters.
 

Riverside

Riverside
dannysquid said:
I don't feel any of this has impacted me at all. To be honest, if I started over, I'd sort of like it to be a bit easier. Five years in and I still can't afford the big ships! But I use the game more to aimlessly wander about than to achieve much.
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I named the 19ly Corvette I took to Beagle Point in 2017 the Wayward Wanderer ;) It is a pleasant way to play, wandering about with no deadlines or particular goal. Find a cliff, jump off it. Then try to get back up again :D
 

WR3ND

WR3ND
Artificially handicapping myself to enjoy the game to its best potential doesn't sit very well with me. Desperate times.

Fortunately, I like small, agile ships and am generally too lazy for the intended meta game-play progression.
 
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Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
Just watched. It's awesome. Hats off for the excessive amount of work @Exigeous did on this and the classy slick presentation!
Couldn't resist but launch notepad and take notes :)
 
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