If you're Undecided about Odyssey, what do you want to see?

[Franc Kaos]

What kind of gameplay is that? Virtual body exercise?

It's not always about gameplay, it's simply immersing you more into the universe but if the virtual exercise is too much, look down at the crotch monitor and select SRV or Walkabout to fade to black still.

Umm. you see its the part in bold that sounds quite..well, odd to say the least. You say this living area will vary by ship, yet you haven't quantified just how big of a variation this will be with each ship being drastically different in shape and size. You then underestimate just how much work that could mean by simply claiming its just a "little bit of extra work". Tell me, for such "little work" you believe it will be, where are the ships modules supposed to go? How about the cargo? The SRV? Passenger cabins? How about the lift for the SRV itself? It is after all, exactly the same in every ship, which will no doubt have to change if the ships interiors are interactive, because as it stands now it would make zero sense. Just saying its "just a bit of extra work" is not going to cut it. If you were proposing this to Frontier in the conference room right now, you'll have to do a whole lot better than this to convince them that its "just a little bit of extra work", to be brutally honest with you.

OK, cut the bedroom scene, then the only extra work required will be better bitmaps and some blinking lights and working monitors...

Or... three living quarter types, Imperial (luxurious but small), Federation (spartan and small) and Independent (small) since the bigger ships are simply filled with more modules the living quarters will still be a tiny space, more of an afterthought (maybe a captains quarters in fleet carriers - so four cabin types).

You leave the bridge into a short hall, at the end is a door to a lift (the exit - select SRV or on foot) and off to the right a door to your quarters, all consist of a bunk, a desk (for eating and vidcalls) then an all-in-one sink / toilet / shower cubicle in one corner.

Selling it to investors, 'gamers are weird, more people will buy it if we include this.'
DISCLAIMER: Never had to sell anything to investors before but I'd probably wear a suit and have some kind of a chart on a whiteboard with a line going up.

 

[Darth Ender]

nobody is questioning if the dlc will sell or that it should or shouldn't have bonuses. That's not the topic. the topic is should the pre-order be purchased given the bonuses provided.

it doesn't matter if the dlc is the greatest thing since the advent of 3d graphics. That wouldn't create a reason to participate in a pre-order vs wait for release.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

the purchase page tells you exactly what the bonus is (who cares what the suit actually looks like).

Deluxe Alpha Expansion Contains:

⦁ Access to the Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Alpha.

⦁ Elite Dangerous: Odyssey OST

Pre-order Bonus:

⦁ Gain access to the exclusive Pioneer suit skin.



That's the pre-order benefits and bonuses. It's not a mystery.

edit: what would make me want to pre-order is if there was some exclusive carrier ship kit (1 year exclusive). Perhaps an exclusive SLF (again, 1 year exclusive). maybe a free guardian blueprint or unlocked engineer. Maybe exclusive access to a certain mission tree that allows you to acquire any of the above if you accomplish it instead of having to purchase/unlock etc. Basically something that either is exclusive or benefits me in the game.

I'm aware of the contents of the preorder (though I forgot about the OST, shows how much I care about music that I'll be able to listen to anyways when I play the game for hours on end), but it's just that - a list. Does it hurt to show us even just an image of the suit? Wouldn't that be somewhat important for a cosmetic bonus item (colour scheme for example?).

As for the Alpha, I already voiced my opinion on paying to be a tester (or more likely, for an early demo, remember when those were free? Crazy times), but when is it? How long is it?

No details at all, just bullet points. Not enough to make me get my wallet out.

 

[amadeus1171]

Some people didn't pre-order Odyssey yet. What do you want to see that would convince you to buy it?

Such as:

1. PVE exploration gameplay on foot
2. New ship or SRV
3. Do Social hubs feel alive
4. Do NPCs have dynamic routines (walk around, errands, sleep)
5. Faction costumes to dress your avatar
6. A club, disco in stations (e.g. the Afterlife club in Mass Effect 2)
7. Story-driven missions (dlc)
8. Ship interiors (not included)
9. Emotes for avatars (dancing, cheering etc)
10. Pets, animal companions
11. Player housing (apartments in stations, a place to call home)

VR

Yes, yes, I know FD claims that it's coming, but we know how it works out when FD claims that something is coming. (soon™)

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

It's not always about gameplay, it's simply immersing you more into the universe but if the virtual exercise is too much, look down at the crotch monitor and select SRV or Walkabout to fade to black still.


OK, cut the bedroom scene, then the only extra work required will be better bitmaps and some blinking lights and working monitors...

Or... three living quarter types, Imperial (luxurious but small), Federation (spartan and small) and Independent (small) since the bigger ships are simply filled with more modules the living quarters will still be a tiny space, more of an afterthought (maybe a captains quarters in fleet carriers - so four cabin types).

You leave the bridge into a short hall, at the end is a door to a lift (the exit - select SRV or on foot) and off to the right a door to your quarters, all consist of a bunk, a desk (for eating and vidcalls) then an all-in-one sink / toilet / shower cubicle in one corner.

Selling it to investors, 'gamers are weird, more people will buy it if we include this.'
DISCLAIMER: Never had to sell anything to investors before but I'd probably wear a suit and have some kind of a chart on a whiteboard with a line going up.

Ok....and, all this for what exactly? 1000 times the immersion as you said and to beat Star Citizen? Why even bring up Star Citizen anyway? The game isn't exactly the crown jewel of space games, except to their militant fanbase. You are essentially doing nothing here but adding a buffer area for yet another fade to black screen into either your SRV or to space legs. WHY though? You might as well just keep the gameplay in the cockpit, where you'll be selecting either the SRV or space legs to start with.The only thing you are doing here is reminding them why ship interiors are not a high priority right now. And by them, I didn't mean the investors, but the lead project developers themselves and the studio execs. They made their stance on ship interiors pretty clear. Unless it adds something to the gameplay, or expands on it in a meaningful way, they don't see the point in putting in the effort, no matter how "little work" you might think it may be. Nothing you've said here so far would change their mind.

 

[Darth Ender]

I'm not convinced that fdev cares about what adds to gameplay or not. They have a roadmap they're following and that's what they work on.

If they cared about adding things to gameplay, they'd had worked on ways to allow the community to generate in game content to fill the vast voids they've had in adding consistent content not only in their narrative but in things for players to do.

if they cared about adding things to gameplay they'd finish existing features like powerplay instead of abandoning them a year after creating them and leaving them half-done. They'd have improved the game loop responses for various game loops to not be basically 100% predictable grind fests.

they'd do more to improve the game loops that already exist that players spend the majority of their time participating in but are so devoid of any kind of active thought (SC and high jumping).

improving existing features is undoubtedly easier than creating new features, but that's not how the game's development moves. So something else is motivating it. Could it be selling shiny things to new players because the non-subscription model demands it?

Long running persistent games like this would have benefited greatly with a subscription. The decision to not be subscription is why it is the way it is.

 

[Semivivus]

Starports, planetary ports and outposts are supposed to have different social hub layouts. While the starport hubs will apparently be confined to a single box building (as seen in Part 2 of the Devil Diary), I hope they've come up with something more interesting for planetary ports. If they nail them (haha), my craving for futuristic urban environments will be partially satisfied.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

40K/60FPS on the PS5 instead of this unnecessary 1080p fuzz-fest.

In the style of Moses Tripoli:
Not cut scene. Immersion. Don't care FPS. Don't care Jet Pack. Immerse and be immersed. 4K/60 Frames. There's the message.

o7

 

[ImmerseMe]

Must be why we've all been utterly drowning in the sea of quality, accurate flight/space flight simulation, and adventure game options for the last 20 years.



As am I. If someone wants to spend 15 minutes delivering items to an NPC in person*, I'm perfectly fine with that. Most times, more options are good. I'd probably even do it myself from time to time, depending on what I feel like doing at that moment.

But if I'm in the process of working on some larger project I'm more interested in and need to unlock an engineer that wants 50 of a specialty item that is only sold in maximum blocks of 6 in a system 150Ly away, I'd rather not double (or more) the time it takes by getting out of the chair 18 times (9 at each end of the loop) to make it happen. I'll happily take the menu at that point.

When I say, "I don't particularly want that", I'm not saying "you can't have it either". I'm saying, "I don't particularly want that."

Spoiler: *

Though IME, the bulk of the people who claim to really, really want this end up spamming the OK/Next/Skip button as rapidly as possible when 'talking' with NPCs after the first week - which seems to suggest the interaction wasn't all that valued and/or didn't add all that much to the experience to begin with.

This isn't to say such interactions are always pointless - just that to do them right and well requires an enormous amount of effort. Who wants another "Remember, this liner is in the top 1%..." level of interaction, except delivered by a rendered NPC?

We are drowning in immediate gratification grab and go games, as your preference indicates you prefer. If that's only an occasional preference, surprise surprise, we all have limits and it's a spectrum anyway, very few are totally one or the other.

Yes, we both want solutions that please us both.

And I of course agree on the "doing it right" issue. Just encountered those liners you mentioned as it happens, noted the repetitive dialogue. And I definitely do skip the in-person visitation in X-Rebirth, in line with your experience, until I'm in the mood.

Bottom line is; E can stay true to its roots and please only the sim crowd, do a mixed approach, or go full WoW and pander to money. I know where I'd bet my money, but I'm a pessimist and have been wrong before. But every concession they make to money is alarming, because it's all I see. Just scares me, is all. Lost too many great games...

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

Well, in fact I'm quite decided, that it isn't what I'm looking for in ED, so I can gracefully choose not to buy it and play good 'ol ED without these new gimmicks (not like it will be playable for a year or two anyway). But the only thing that could really instantly get my on board of this hype train, that is destined to end up as smoking wreckage in a desert canyon, is ballistic LMG with bipod and ability to go prone.

Jokes aside - real atmos, but I think I lost hope at this point...

 

[FlyingBrickyard]

...immediate gratification grab and go games, as your preference indicates you prefer.

I really have no idea where you're getting this, as it's flat out wrong. You can stop failing at inference, I'm outright telling you: You're wrong.

By way of example, my favorite game ever is Starflight, which I played for a good two years before finishing. It is the metric by which all other games are ultimately (even if subconsciously) judged, and it's been that way for me since 1986. To date, nothing has ever matched it (though the original Mass Effect has come the closest to creating the same overall feeling). Starflight was a lot like Elite in many respects. "Here's a ship, here are some credits, there's the galaxy. You figure it out from here."

Though beyond that, Elite Dangerous skews vastly more toward the "immediate gratification" end of the spectrum than Starflight ever did. But it's a different sort of game, so that's expected.

I do however, have a strong preference for worthwhile and meaningful game mechanics, and not pointless/flashy junk that just gets in the way. Stuff like that is more frustrating than fun. Nobody really reads the 'flavor text' of mission boards as is, because it's all the same half dozen scripts for every NPC across the galaxy. Same with the messages from liners, or pirates, or any other NPC in the game.

If adding legs gets us the exact same thing, but with a 3D avatar and an added 2 minutes per interaction, I can't say I'm particularly excited about that after the first or second time. Just give me the option to go about my business without further wasting my time. In short, "what does it fundamentally add to the experience?" If it's just a new graphic front end that I have to walk to for the otherwise identical experience, the answer is "not much", IMO.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

The funny thing about the pre-order bonuses is that we don't even know what they'll actually even look like, nor do we know when the Alpha actually takes place --- even just the term Alpha, as opposed to Beta, a mere 3-4 months away from release day, worries me - maybe some of the professional developers frequenting this forum (armchair experts mind your own business lol) might put my mind at ease that this is normal.

I get it, FDev want to build up hype, but at this point and with this particular customer here it's starting to have the opposite effect - I know next to nothing about Odyssey other than there will be slightly improved planetary geometry, blue skies, and some rather samey looking cookie cutter on-foot environments to shoot other players/NPCs like it's 2005 again, and the possibility of exploring on foot (which I'm more curious about - but judging from the current state of exploration I'm not sure it'll blow my mind - Red Dead Redemption flower picking springs to mind).

There's still very little meat on the bone in terms of making an informed decision to pre-order right now - I just really, really, really hope that Odyssey will blow my mind even just a little bit and not look 5 years too old at release - technically, artistically and gameplay wise.

The little that I've seen so far will ultimately make me buy it simply because I'm already heavily invested in the rest of the game, and Odyssey will extend its universe. But I'm not excited enough about it to pre-order unfortunately, and it seems FDev don't feel the need to sweeten the deal by throwing in some decent goodies either ... a unique ship/vehicle (a la Cobra 4) or suite of paintjobs (Midnight Black back in the days that I missed out on) would probably sway me, or a decent discount (given the rather steep standard price) at least after I hear first impressions from the Alpha.

Continuing from the paint jobs thread.. I think you're doing it. My personal expectations are so flat I'm actually looking forward to it still. I learned my lesson about getting your hopes up for elite... That's alot of hope you have there.

I like this thread for more of a general discussion forum quality discussion about preordering more than odysee.

 

[Franc Kaos]

...
By way of example, my favorite game ever is Starflight, which I played for a good two years before finishing. It is the metric by which all other games are ultimately (even if subconsciously) judged, and it's been that way for me since 1986. To date, nothing has ever matched it (though the original Mass Effect has come the closest to creating the same overall feeling). Starflight was a lot like Elite in many respects. "Here's a ship, here are some credits, there's the galaxy. You figure it out from here."
...

Starflight was my first ever PC game on my first ever computer, an old 8086 with 4 colour CGA and no sound - mind blown! and yea, you can totally see its DNA in Mass Effect...

https://www.filfre.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/starflight_cover.jpg

Pretty sure I lost tho as the Earth got <spoilers> destroyed </spoilers> but it still allowed you to keep playing.

 

[Arkadiak]

I don't really get it. If I want to play "space FPS-shooter" I play Plantetside 2 (insert your favorite shooter, if any, for yourself, there is no shortage on the market). I don't think Frontier will be able to make anything better then existing games for a multiplayer shooter. Singelplayer skimmer shooting? Nah. Sounds not much better then the actual SRV skimmer shooting stuff we already have.

So what? If first (or 3rd) person shooter is coming then I want a decent multiplayer gameplay for it. And for this game it is co-op game-play that could work out well. Something like group together to take out that pirate outpost, sabotage that empire/fed/alliance installation, board that ship and rescue/kidnap that person or investigate that Thargoid Structure. That's the only thing I can imagine making sense in a big galaxy with wonky P2P connections: Co-Op scenarios for small player groups. This means Frontier will have to provide good NPC AI bots to play against. If Frontier should go down this path, which would make sense, the quality of the enemy AI and the story depth and mission architecture will be deciding for the over all quality of this new dlc.

If first (or 3rd) person exploration and missions are coming, I want decent story driven missions for it.

Gameplay inside our ships? Maybe. But I don't see a whole lot of stuff to do inside the ship, except of repairs and piracy. Also I have to say, I don't like the thought of other players or NPC being able to invade my ship. No. Really not. Scenarios to board NPC ships and/or ship-wrecks could be cool though. I can vividly imagine eery scenarios boarding those ancient megaships exploring theire interiors and the stories that happened inside (like Pandorum, Dead Space, Alien)! If that would be in, it would be an immediate purchase for me. Also Frontier already have shown they can make atmospheric structures (Thargoid Structures!) to explore. Why not expand upon this?!

What else would I like? Since I like base-building and tower-defense, I sure would like to be able to build stuff on planet surfaces. Something like my own space-ship garage, a commodity storage, mining drills, maybe even my own mining and trading outpost... pipe dreams for now, I know, but maybe sometime in the future, wouldn't be that hard, since Fleet Carriers do same things in space already. But all this could be done without actual first (or 3rd) person walking too... so. err. well. yes. or no.

Also, since I doubt that shooting will be "the thing" for Elite, I hope there will be some emphasis on stealth, hacking and gadgets, like being able to use drones and various kinds of equipment like explosives, software hacks, analyzing tools and what not, to overcome outpost/ship(-wreck) security.

I absolutly see no need to walk around in space-station cafeterias. I am totally comfortable to navigate my menus to get the things I need, also I am absolutly content with text only chat and mission briefings. No need for gimmicky avatars showing off their skins in some virtual dressing rooms.

Pre-order? For me not. It's not that gameplay addition I was eagerly looking forward to. I will wait and see what will be delivered, then decide if it's worth it for me.

 

[Deareim]

Unless there is any BGS advantages to have it, then no.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

As mentioned in a lave radio podcast a groupfinder mechanic. A first person shooter needs "addictive" progression mechanics and fast paced action gameplay. Like warframe or something.

I think using space ships would put too much duration of the experience into the spaceship.. which is great at the same time, but personally ill just end up staying in the space ship, just ask the current srv missions how that turns out.

EDIT: If the ui was a bit better, a global lfg channel would be okay, but it isn't so would need to be a instant teleportation queue like modern mmos.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

I'm not convinced that fdev cares about what adds to gameplay or not. They have a roadmap they're following and that's what they work on.

If they cared about adding things to gameplay, they'd had worked on ways to allow the community to generate in game content to fill the vast voids they've had in adding consistent content not only in their narrative but in things for players to do.

Such as?

if they cared about adding things to gameplay they'd finish existing features like powerplay instead of abandoning them a year after creating them and leaving them half-done. They'd have improved the game loop responses for various game loops to not be basically 100% predictable grind fests.

they'd do more to improve the game loops that already exist that players spend the majority of their time participating in but are so devoid of any kind of active thought (SC and high jumping).

improving existing features is undoubtedly easier than creating new features, but that's not how the game's development moves. So something else is motivating it. Could it be selling shiny things to new players because the non-subscription model demands it?

Well, as you say, these are improvements to existing features, not true additions that expands the gameplay. The latter is how they are selling Odyssey, not the former. I'm not concerned about the former, because there are tons of things about the game as it is now that needs to be improved beyond what you pointed out. As it stands now, the new player experience is GOD AWFUL. Its the worst I've ever seen in any game thus far. First impressions are important, but apparently it's not to Frontier since they put ZERO effort into making the game appealing to new players. Can't even find basic things like which station has this or that module or ship without using some website like EDDB, something that should have been in the game to start with for petes sake. With the way the game is now, its a sure fire way to make people want to refund the game, not keep playing it. This is why I have very low expectations for Odyssey. The project was poorly managed right out of the gate.

Long running persistent games like this would have benefited greatly with a subscription. The decision to not be subscription is why it is the way it is.

What good is a subscription if the game is still going to be insufferably grindish? I don't mind grinding, as long as its reasonable, which it certainly isn't in this game.

 

[Kzak]

I'd like to see some elements of Hardspace: Shipbreaker in Odyssey, ref. salvage operations, but this will take some time of course.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Continuing from the paint jobs thread.. I think you're doing it. My personal expectations are so flat I'm actually looking forward to it still. I learned my lesson about getting your hopes up for elite... That's alot of hope you have there.

I like this thread for more of a general discussion forum quality discussion about preordering more than odysee.

Doing what, sorry?

 

[Darth Ender]

Such as?

Such as infrastructure that allows player contributed content. Be that galnet stories by players again or a system for galnet "channels" where you can tune to certain curiated feeds from players. or release tools used to help create actual ship kits or ship textures (paint jobs) and they can be voted on for official inclusion. A means for squadrons to interact with eachother better in the game and create a more visible identity in the game to other players so they matter more (tie them better into the BGS). There are lots of ways the community can be brought into a game to generate the content that it requires constantly in a long running persistent game. Fdev does basically none of them.

What good is a subscription if the game is still going to be insufferably grindish? I don't mind grinding, as long as its reasonable, which it certainly isn't in this game.

subscriptions keep the developer honest with making a game that continues to entertain the users who have paid for it. It ties the developer to the tenet that their game must be good not just for the first few hours you play it, but it has to be good at the 1000th hour too. It keeps revenue steady so they're not inclined to create these infrequent - large - bug ridden updates to excite new users. It allows them to fund constant content. It basically would have killed the insufferable grindish half-baked game mechanics years ago because players would be able to vote with their subscriptions and fdev would have had to respond.