Drew Wagar's Thoughts
- Thread starter Kenny Rosser
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The original original plan was to have him sitting around on the fringes of the Pegasus Sector indefinitely, until the Fuel Rats suggested a refuelling CG, so I'm not sure they had any specific ideas at all for him. They never hinted before the jump (in the way that they did for the Gnosis, say) that he might end up anywhere else, and the whole sequence of events took place at a time where the vast majority of Galnet content was player-submitted and there wasn't really any central plot running.
I can't remember if they've ever explicitly confirmed that he would have jumped to Beagle had it not been for the UAs - though I don't know if anyone has asked in those terms either - but it seems very likely.
As much as I dislike videos that take 15 minutes to tell me what 2 minutes of reading could have, his video I think was well stated overall. I do disagree with both him and Katie on this aspect of "just remove all grind" and "just be sandbox". I mean even credits are something of a grind so should we just all mouse click the ship we want today and load it up from the menu? That would completely kill the game for me as (for me) the draw is the buildup to being a powerhouse with a fleet fitted for optimal work on each task.
However they also have a point. Just like Katie, I have someone I almost talked into playing with me. Very interested in Thargoid fights after some of those terrible content creator videos I'd showed him. After I explained the process he was going to go through to get there, well, that was the end of that. Really I can understand why too. There is no role for him at all in that area of interest. He can't support, he can't help out with logistics, and he can't really do anything useful as crew. All he can do is get into the grind for all the engineering and then all goid weapons. There's no real other 'play the game' for him because he's not interested in space trucking. So can't get him to engage. That's one personal example but I know I'm not alone there.
If there were more varied ways to get where you wanted and the things that people found fun also yielded them the things the needed to keep having the fun it might be easier. Again with AX as an example. You are going to really need to push through a lot of engineer work to really have a shot. Sure, once you have it all nailed down like a boss and can kill 8 Hydra with whatever ship you choose you can probably do it without engineering, but lets be real, we don't buy an Eagle, A rate it, throw on a gauss and get to work. You need engineering to get through that learning curve to start with.
I don't claim to have all the answers either but this venom that is aimed at anyone that leaves the reservation is well... not a great look. Same as some of the whining and crying going on in Youtube over and over again on the same damn point looks really petty and exploitive as well. I don't feel the video referenced here is like that at all.
However they also have a point. Just like Katie, I have someone I almost talked into playing with me. Very interested in Thargoid fights after some of those terrible content creator videos I'd showed him. After I explained the process he was going to go through to get there, well, that was the end of that. Really I can understand why too. There is no role for him at all in that area of interest. He can't support, he can't help out with logistics, and he can't really do anything useful as crew. All he can do is get into the grind for all the engineering and then all goid weapons. There's no real other 'play the game' for him because he's not interested in space trucking. So can't get him to engage. That's one personal example but I know I'm not alone there.
If there were more varied ways to get where you wanted and the things that people found fun also yielded them the things the needed to keep having the fun it might be easier. Again with AX as an example. You are going to really need to push through a lot of engineer work to really have a shot. Sure, once you have it all nailed down like a boss and can kill 8 Hydra with whatever ship you choose you can probably do it without engineering, but lets be real, we don't buy an Eagle, A rate it, throw on a gauss and get to work. You need engineering to get through that learning curve to start with.
I don't claim to have all the answers either but this venom that is aimed at anyone that leaves the reservation is well... not a great look. Same as some of the whining and crying going on in Youtube over and over again on the same damn point looks really petty and exploitive as well. I don't feel the video referenced here is like that at all.
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Yea, that stuff happens. And it's crazy and sad that this is actually a lucrative thing to do and that there are people around, who have no qualms about doing it.
But i still don't think that anybody during the rollout of Odyssey (or Engineers 1.0, PP or some other things which clearly were delivered before being ready) was doing so with the intent of damaging the company. Personal greed: yes. Bad management decissions: yes. Intent to do damage: no.
On how things turn out now, that's a different thing. And i hope it won't be too bad. I'd rather have them sit down, fix the issues and get the game to a good state again, instead of being sold out and milked for cash.
It's keeping me stupidly addicted at the moment, but I'm still relatively early game. The sense of progression and pacing has come a LONG way since I last played. You have to give HG credit, they listen to their players and are not afraid to radically change the game to make it better. Last I played (on PS4 a few years ago) I stalled out because it was starting to feel grindy. In fact, I was expecting to use mods to "cheat" past the grind on the PC version, but to my surprise the "level up" loops no longer feel grindy but fun, so no cheats for me!
Someday when I'm filthy rich and have solved all the mysteries of the game (no spoilers please, I'm still on my quest) and seen every permutation of procgen, then I might get bored. I suspect that'll be a long, long time from now, however, especially if I interlace my NMS time with my X4 and SE time. Having played the "new" NMS, I'm even less compelled to buy Odyssey, if that's possible.
But I understand why not everyone likes NMS. No hard feelings!
So - from an NMS know-nothing: (how) does multiplayer work in NMS?
If I build a base/cave/thingumy is it then there for everyone to see/explore/ruin?
Yes and no. It's actually kinda of clever, as there is this trans-dimensional space station that is one single station that can exist in multiple solar systems, so you get this one giant player hub where people can meet up and go out on missions together. You can also visit other player bases, but you set your own permissions for your bases, so nobody can ruin your base unless you give them permission to (like friends working on the same base).
Exploring player bases is something I look forward to, because it's the best of both worlds - the variety of procgen but the detail and care of hand-crafted assets to explore.
OK. That makes a lot of sense. That means that everyone who's saying: "Why can't elite do X? They can do it in NMS" is misunderstanding just how NMS mulitplayer is fundamentally different from Elite's?
That deserves its own thread, o7.
I guess it depends on what X is. I think Elite could lean more towards procgen when it comes to creating plant assets, for example. I also really like NMS's version of the concourse - it is huge compared to Elite's. And I would LOVE base-building in Elite, though nothing as complex as NMS. Subnautica probably has the better base-building mechanics for a game like Elite - simple modules that offer a certain amount of customization and decoration.
However there is a lot of stuff about NMS that just wouldn't fit in Elite's universe, not without fundamentally changing the game. I don't want Elite to become NMS (especially the fantasy planets), but it would be cool if Frontier borrowed some of the better ideas that could actually work in Elite.
Yes, but if everyone could build a base on (say) Mercury and you don't have the gating that NMS has, how do you render that planet for all Elite commanders? Do you show everyone's base? Can you wander between bases on foot or SRV? Do bases persist between modes? Can't help feeling that if Cobra struggles at the moment, you'd be opening up a world of hurt if you tried to make this work.
Re: the concourse - yes. I suspect what we have now was a placeholder that never saw further development. It gets samey after a while - but it has potential. You could have seedier areas where you pick up black market opportunities or proper social hubs - instead of 7 NPCs shouting about how they're looking for someone to steal something from a faction while that faction's representative is standing 6 feet away.
I suspect player bases would be handled similarly to how fleet carriers are handled, except that they would be static rather than mobile. In populated systems you would have to buy a plot of land and pay taxes, with a limit to the number of bases per planet. Uninhabited systems could be free land, like the American Homestead Act.
Of course the trick is storing this information and rendering these bases, hence why I recommend using a very simple modular approach which can be digitized with very little data. ED already does this with player ships, which when you take engineering into account, are all very unique with lots of "qualities" for the servers to remember, and each player can have dozens of ships each, no problem. As for rendering, player bases would be no different than planetary outposts or POIs.
In other words, I don't see it being that challenging from a technical perspective.
Honestly, I think the reason it doesn't keep me hooked is the limit on only having six starships at any time. One of the fun things about NMS is tracking down exotic looking craft and adding them to your collection. I wouldn't be surprised if they expand this some day to have "stored" craft and your "six active" craft separate.
That said, one thing you said needs to be highlighted as the KEY difference between the development of NMS and Elite: "You have to give HG credit, they listen to their players and are not afraid to radically change the game to make it better." That can't be understated. There have been several articles describing how Hello Games had a vision of where they wanted the game to go, but the players wanted something vastly different, so they listened and changed their design accordingly. It all started with base building. HG wanted you to focus on flying through the galaxy, not setting up major bases on a planet. But players wanted the latter, and that was the first big shift with many more to follow.
Also, for the record, I do like NMS. I just don't play it that much because there is nothing I want to do right now: I've got multiple bases, some of which churn out ridiculous amount of resources I can sell (money is just not an issue any more). Again, for me it is the ship cap. I have six beautiful ships in both my normal and survival saves, and both are fully upgraded to S class with all the mods. If I could collect more, I'd probably jump back in the game. At some point, I do need to finish my Hardcore game and get to center of the galaxy on that save... then I'll have 100% steam achievements for the game, which is a pretty good sign I like the game.
Nonsense - I've played in open since original alpha - I've only ever been 'griefed' once. My ship has engineered FSD and that's about it.
I explore a lot, but visit Sol, shinrata, do CGS etc frequently and have had no issues.
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Oh the drama!
Pre-announced flounce. The comments below the line are frankly pathetic.
Pre-announced flounce. The comments below the line are frankly pathetic.
i think we should speak with our wallets, no more arx purchases, no more Oddesy purchases until they start communicating again
Drew is stopping after nine years based on his own opinion, one which I agree with btw.
ED has lost it's soul through the years, especially with the addition of Odyssey, lore has been neglected and random stuff has been added, stuf no one asked for and turned sour, like multicrew.
Bolting an fps on top of a spacegame doesn't make the overal game better imho, it's just another random feature.
I just got myself the new Xbox Series X and I wont even bother installing ED on it anymore.
Fdev gave me quite a lot of time of fun and my money's worth but they're taking a course now that isn't in line of what I hoped to see happen for ED, it's a pitty I loved ED.
If Odyssey ever gets released for console I'll look into how it has become or if they added something actually interesting to it but if it's all about fps and the lore gets ignored even further then I definitely won't buy it or re-install ED.
If Fdev wants to target a different kind of audience then that's their prerogative but they shouldn't be surprised that a lot of "old" players will disappear.
I know people will disagree with me, that's fine, and when you're still having fun playing EDH or EDO then good for you, games are supposed to be played for fun.
In the meantime I'll get my fun playing other games.
I will miss ED and I'm gutted Fdev took this turn but it's their choice, their game.
To bad......
I think he meant communicate that we're all getting our way, never mind that "our way" is different for each of us. I want the ability to build my own surface base, and start populating my own bubble 68.3421323 LY from Sol specifically. no further no closer.Instructions unclear I bought some arxe.
Also, they communicated last week
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