Drew Wagar's Thoughts

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Oh, there are engineers but unlike ship engineering, it's not required to have an engineered suit or weapon to be effective at pew pew. You'd realise that if you owned the game and played it but ya don't so 🤷‍♂️
You are wasting your words, Leo...

May as well call yourself Canute and try to turn back the tide 🤷‍♂️
 
Oh, there are engineers but unlike ship engineering, it's not required to have an engineered suit or weapon to be effective at pew pew. You'd realise that if you owned the game and played it but ya don't so 🤷‍♂️
Ya, fairy tales. Just like "just sidegrades" and "mild upgrades" when before they unleashed 2.1.
You must have missed the part when they introduced double engineered gear and goalposted basic utility equipment like night vision in Odyssey gear grind, Fairy Bartlet. Powercreep and grind is etched into ED. It's the only play incentive FD is capable to reliably reproduce.
 
Ya, fairy tales. Just like "just sidegrades" and "mild upgrades" when before they unleashed 2.1.
You must have missed the part when they introduced double engineered gear and goalposted basic utility equipment like night vision in Odyssey gear grind, Fairy Bartlet. Powercreep and grind is etched into ED. It's the only play incentive FD is capable to reliably reproduce.

Ain't you adorable.

Anyway, I must be off my mother said never to argue with someone who insists on being wrong.

Toodles.
 
That’s how I found out space engineers is a bad mindcraft clone :)
I have a Space Engineers thread if you'd like to debate this further. If it makes you feel better, I've been trying to get Drew interested in Space Engineers (and X4 Foundations), but he hasn't even nibbled on those carrots. So one might argue that Drew remains loyal to ED even as he says goodbye to ED (No Man's Sky notwithstanding).
 
I have a Space Engineers thread if you'd like to debate this further. If it makes you feel better, I've been trying to get Drew interested in Space Engineers (and X4 Foundations), but he hasn't even nibbled on those carrots. So one might argue that Drew remains loyal to ED even as he says goodbye to ED (No Man's Sky notwithstanding).
I get the impression that Drew would like a game with some good lore, that’s slim pickings in the space game genre.
 
I wouldn't buy it even if it was finished. Because I know it's just more engineer grinder activity. How do I know? I didn't preorder.
Presumably, you bought ED and EDH, which arguably weren't finished products at launch. This is the reality of live service-type games.

But I do agree that EDO was released in a poor, rushed state and is rather thin on new content for something that's supposedly been in the works for three years.
 
Presumably, you bought ED and EDH, which arguably weren't finished products at launch. This is the reality of live service-type games.

But I do agree that EDO was released in a poor, rushed state and is rather thin on new content for something that's supposedly been in the works for three years.
ED was feature complete when I bought it at the time they introduced power play. That doesn't mean it couldn't be added to at that point but it worked alright. The ramifications of "live service" dawned on me with Horizons - while the initial gameplay was quite awesome actually I ended up seeing nerfs to promote their hamsterwheeler gameplay and a transition from a space game to a full-time dice-roller. That was indeed unexpected and shaped my future expectations of games of this kind.
What I criticise most with EDO is the vague description they offered which is pretty much akin to the season passes we seen by the likes of Battlefront 2 where you had some teaser stuff along with a wishwash description of "and more" as product appraisal. And that for EDO which was supposed to be more feature complete than Horizons. In the end the end product maybe even is more feature complete - when it works, but they kinda didn't have much to show for. Because it didn't work maybe.
 
I get the impression that Drew would like a game with some good lore, that’s slim pickings in the space game genre.
I never dove much into it but the X franchise has a long-term writer accompanying it and I heard it's actually not so bad. I'm more on the action side probably, yet Mass Effect hit a pretty sweet spot with the setting, mostly because the Normandy 1 had this dark ambient as it concerns my preferences. And a good voice actor narrator, as well as the voice acting in general.
I spotted Garrus instantly in Fallout 4 and since I quite would like to play a space RPG again - there is hope a Starfield might deliver some next year.
 
Galnet is throwing out new lore at a rate of knots if you ask me.
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I never dove much into it but the X franchise has a long-term writer accompanying it and I heard it's actually not so bad. I'm more on the action side probably, yet Mass Effect hit a pretty sweet spot with the setting, mostly because the Normandy 1 had this dark ambient as it concerns my preferences. And a good voice actor narrator, as well as the voice acting in general.
I spotted Garrus instantly in Fallout 4 and since I quite would like to play a space RPG again - there is hope a Starfield might deliver some next year.
X2 had good lore, but that was 17 years ago, the company gave up on lore after that.

Mass effect is a RPG and has nothing to do with the space game genre. If you consider it a space game you are very much mistaken.

It’s a good game, just not a space game.
 
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X2 had good lore, but that was 17 years ago, the company gave up on lore after that.

Mass effect is a RPG and has nothing to do with the space game genre. If you consider it a space game you are very much mistaken.

It’s a good game, just not a space game.
I'm a sucker for sci-fi. For years that in video games was sorely underrepresented and it doesn't matter much if it's RPG, sim or strategy to me.
In fact I like to switch up genres - variety keeps it fresh.
When I say "space game" I mean sci-fi game.
 
Galnet is throwing out new lore at a rate of knots if you ask me.

It might not be lore Drew can or wants to relate to but to say it's not there is a bit disingenuous isn't it?

I mean, this is some of the new lore of the year:

View attachment 249807

Greetings Commanders, and welcome to the Azimuth Saga! Many of you will have caught wind of the various machinations of Aegis, Salvation, and other factions or individuals in recent times. This post will summarise these events as they unfold, so if you've missed anything or want to get involved, here's where to catch up!

PROLOGUE

JAN, 3307 - As a coalition of all three Galactic Superpowers, Aegis appeals to the Empire, Federation, and Alliance to set aside internal conflicts to offer adequate focus on the Thargoid threat. Professor Alba Tesreau, head of research at Aegis, gave this statement:

“Humanity’s focus on petty internal conflicts has blinded us to the existential threat of the Thargoids. Their recent horrific attacks should be a wake-up call to the fact that defunding has crippled Aegis’s ability to offer protection. We strongly entreat our founders to come together and channel resources toward Aegis, and particularly into research. There can be no hope of coexistence with this alien species unless we increase our understanding of them.”

( i ) An audio log from the Adamastor Megaship

( i ) Related GalNet Articles

29.10.3306 - "Ghost Ship" Arrives in Chukchan System
09.11.3306 - "Ghost Ship" Leads Alliance to New Resources
12.11.3306 - Alliance Launches Coalsack Nebula Campaign
17.11.3306 - Coalsack Nebula Campaign Completes Initial Stages
26.11.3306 - Alliance Consolidates Presences in Coalsack Nebula
10.03.3307 - Galactic Mysteries: The Adamastor
10.12.3306 - Coalsack Nebula Project Gathers Ammonia Worlds Data
28.12.3306 - Coalsack Nebula Terraforming Project Stalls
31.12.3306 - Thargoids Attack Coalsack and Witch Head Nebulas
07.01.3307 - Thargoids Wreak Havoc in Nebulas
08.01.3307 - Aegis Supports Galactic Summit
09.03.3307 - Thargoid Conflict Discussed at the Galactic Summit

ACT I

APR, 3307 - The Adamastor "awakens" and begins transmitting a signal, drawing the interest of the Alliance Salvage Guild. An anonymous source known only as "Salvation" implores independent Commanders to help decode the Adamastor's message and provides a decryption key. They claim it will lead to advanced scientific knowledge. Commanders around the galaxy answer the call and identify the co-ordinates of a sister-ship, the derelict Hesperus. When pilots arrive at an asteroid belt around the second star of the Perseus Dark Region KC-V C2-2 system, they find that the twin megaship has already been claimed by the Scriveners, a Dredger Clan. Francesca Wolfe of Wallglass Investigations Agency gave some insight:

“The Scriveners Clan was originally a fleet of research vessels for a long-forgotten academic consortium. Over centuries they became a self-sufficient society, constantly acquiring materials and information. They’re not aggressive, but shun outsiders and jealously guard their ‘Knowledge Core’. I’m fascinated by mentions of research-sergeants and lector-generals, suggesting their culture is a merger of scholastic and military. With the Hesperus claimed as salvage by the Scriveners and its drives stripped, all chance of learning more was lost. Luckily, four encoded data files had resisted upload, and a gap in the dredger’s antiquated firewalls allowed pilots to hack them.”

Elsewhere, Aegis launches a new anti-xeno research programme and requests Commanders for aid in delivering Guardian technology. Professor Alba Tesreau, head of Aegis Research, gave this statement:

“At the Galactic Summit, Aegis agreed to undertake a fresh analysis of Guardian technology. The hope is that this will lead to the development of more effective defences against the Thargoids. We therefore require new samples to compare with Ram Tah’s groundbreaking work on this mysterious species. [...] I beseech the galactic community to support this project. It is vital that Aegis continues to receive funding, and to achieve this we must push the boundaries of our knowledge even further.”

Aegis are overwhelmingly successful in their initiative, receiving a massive delivery of Guardian artefacts. Professor Alba Tesreau made this announcement:

“Everyone at Aegis is thankful for the impressive effort made by the galactic community. If we can gain new insights into Guardian technology from these samples, then funding and resources for our work may continue.”

( i ) Related GalNet Articles

08.04.3307 - The Awakening of the Adamastor
19.04.3307 - The Adamastor Enigma
22.04.3307 - Aegis Appeals for Guardian Artefacts
27.04.3307 - Galactic Mysteries: The Hesperus
29.04.3307 - Guardian Artefacts Collected for Aegis Project

ACT II

MAY, 3307 - Salvation sends another message to pilots, requesting they deliver any logs scanned from the Hesperus to Taurus Mining Ventures at the Hind Mine base in T Tauri system. Patience Middleton, a representative of the corporation, announced:

“‘Salvation’ has authorised us to offer two million credits or ten units of void opals for delivering the Hesperus’s logs. This contract ends on the 21st of May 3307, after which payments will not be available. We have been asked to relay the message below:

This is Salvation. I call myself this as I cannot yet reveal my identity, but my scientific breakthroughs will literally save all of humanity. The Adamastor and the Hesperus were just the beginning, as I have always known. For my intrepid agents, there will be further work to come."


Thargoids attack en masse, targeting the Delphi system and several others among the California, Coalsack and Pleiades nebulas. It's speculated that Aegis (based in Delphi) gathering Guardian artefacts provoked the incursion. The Aegis owned Alexandria megaship jumps from Delphi to HIP 16538, carrying a large quantity of Guardian artefacts and is pursued by Thargoids. The Federation refuses the megaship entry into Federation space, despite the planned route to Sol.

JUN, 3307 - Captain Jacob Morales, commanding officer of the Alexandria, outlines the Alexandria's next steps:

“On Thursday we will make a hyperspace jump to the HIP 30944 system. Since this has a small population, the risk of casualties will be low if the Thargoids continue to pursue us. Once there, we will arrange to offload our cargo and distribute it to multiple locations.”

However, the megaship never reached its arrival point and all communication with it has ceased. Search teams in local systems have not detected its presence. Admiral Aden Tanner, chief military liaison with Aegis, informed the media:

“We regret to announce a complete loss of contact with the Alexandria. Although there is no evidence of damage or destruction, its disappearance while travelling through hyperspace raises the possibility that it was intercepted en route by Thargoid forces. Captain Jacob Morales and over four thousand crew members will be listed as missing, presumed dead. In addition to this great tragedy, Aegis’s research programme into Guardian technology has been severely impacted by the loss of many precious artefacts.”

Salvation emerges once again and contacts any pilots passing through the Chukchan and Perseus Dark Region KC-V c2-2 system. Commander Tyler Thorsen told Vox Galactica:

“I was taking some sightseers on a trip round the Hesperus, and getting as close as I dared to the Scriveners Clan dredger. I scanned the tourist beacon for them, and suddenly received a direct message from this ‘Salvation’ guy. He asked me to track down some old signal beacons, which are listening posts configured to retransmit long-range comms. Apparently these could help locate the survivors from the megaship. But the Hesperus is ancient history. Surely there can’t be anything or anyone left to find?”

The Pilot's Federation issues an official warning to all Commanders, cautioning them against undertaking tasks for a potentially illegal enterprise.

A Guardian/Thargoid battlefield is discovered at the end of a series of signal beacons tracked by independent pilots, following Salvation's instruction. Both Aegis and Taurus Mining Ventures lay claim to the site, requesting delivery of any Guardian artefacts to the PMD2009 48 system.

JUL, 3307 - The Glorious Prospect megaship, contracted by Salvation, receives the vast majority of delivered artefacts and rewards pilots with a specially engineered Class 2 Fixed Guardian Shard Cannon. The Pilot's Federation declares these modules as "hot", requiring additional costs to clean them prior to installation.

( i ) Related GalNet Articles

07.05.3307 - The Voice of Salvation
13.05.3307 - Mass Thargoid Strike - Emergency Declared
21.05.3307 - Thargoids Pursue Aegis Megaship
24.05.3307 - Federation Refuses Entry to "Plague Ship"
01.06.3307 - Aegis Megaship Prepares to Escape Thargoids
04.06.3307 - Aegis Megaship Vanishes in Hyperspace
11.06.3307 - The Legacy of the Hesperus
18.06.3307 - Guardian-Thargoid Battlefield Discovered
24.06.3307 - Aegis and "Salvation" Compete for Guardian Artefacts
01.07.3307 - "Salvation" Eclipses Aegis to Obtain Guardian Artefacts


ACT III

JUL, 3307 - The Scriveners clan Dredger leaves the system where the Hesperus is located. Erik Gunnarson of Wallglass Investigations Agency speculates:

“When the Scriveners laid claim to the Hesperus, I expected only a cloud of fragments would remain. But their salvage operation has been prematurely abandoned, after stripping the megaship’s innards and leaving behind a mostly intact hull. Why have they done this? Perhaps because this particular dredger clan avoids outsiders. [...] Alternatively, the Scriveners detected richer pickings elsewhere – either fresh resources for the dredger to consume or new information for their ‘Knowledge Core’. In theory they could still be tracked down as their vessel’s hyperdrive has a similar range to modern-day fleet carriers.”

Aegis is partly suspended as an inquiry into the disappearance of the Alexandria megaship goes underway. While the Alliance, Empire and Federation jointly ordered the inquiry, they maintain that Aegis plays a vital defensive role against the Thargoids.

Independent pilots supported the Far God cult by delivering commodities to the Panjabell system, including auto fabricators, emergency power cells and insulating membrane. It's believed these will be used to outfit megaships "the Perdition" and "the Sacrosanct" due to be populated by the Thargoid-worshipping cultists. Earlier in the month, Wallglass Investigations Agency examined the cult in a GalNet article.

AUG, 3307 - The Far God cult megaship 'The Testament' embarks on a voyage throughout the core systems to convert new followers.

“The masses are deaf to the voice of the Far God. What you see as alien monsters, we view as messengers from a very real multi-dimensional being. The Testament will help us carry the word of Its imminent arrival.”

~ The Second Witness of the Seventieth Chapter


The two remaining megaships, 'The Perdition' and 'The Sacrosanct' are prepared for long-range journeys. It's believed they will take cultists on a pilgrimage to the Far God.

Aegis are investigated by an independent board of inquiry to establish the reason for its recent failures and several prominent figures within the organisation resign.

“We will be raising issues of culpability, specifically whether the concentration of Guardian artefacts aboard the Alexandria directly led to systems coming under Thargoid attack. Other incidents will be reviewed to identify possible grounds for negligence.”

~ Dr Paul Baumann, chair of the board of inquiry


Shortly after, the findings of the report are leaked to journalists. Dr Paul Baumann states that only the final report should be considered official. In the meantime, Vox Galactical journalist Alexei Keel shared the leaked versions contents:

“The leaked files outline a pattern of poor internal organisation and negligence. One claim is that Aegis accepted its heavy reliance on independent pilots entering combat situations against the Thargoids.

A lack of technological breakthroughs since the first generation of AX weaponry is also criticised. Professor Tesreau, who has since resigned, is singled out for prioritising communication with the Thargoids rather than developing quickly deployed defences.”

Interview transcripts show that some Aegis personnel consider the inquiry itself to be part of a larger agenda. A recurring claim is that the superpowers directly contributed to Aegis’s inefficiency by reducing funding, and are now scapegoating Aegis management for a lack of progress.”


A timer on the mysterious "Hyford's Cache" expires, releasing a message that reveals the location of Oaken Point - an abandoned settlement in the Pleiades. Independent pilots discover audio logs at that location regarding a "Project Seraph" which sought to integrate a human pilot with a Thargoid ship. Following the trail, pilots discover that a test subject, "D-2" managed to escape with the help of someone working at Oaken Point following a string of failures in the experiments. Further logs make reference to "The Witch" and Azimuth.

"Our timeframe is likely to be slashed, of course. I fear our limited success is worth a few more years at best. The Witch will not be pleased with the lack of tangible results, despite our initial progress.

Still, one must remain optimistic. Our understanding of Thargoid interface mechanisms has improved considerably. Plenty of enhanced test subjects remain in our care. Dr Tao is writing a paper discussing their surgical procedures which should greatly benefit Azimuth’s medtech department."

~ Professor Thomas Dorne


Beacons in HIP 26176 and Col 69 Sector JI-I c10-4 contain further information, revealing a third beacon and ultimately access to a second research location. Anyone searching for further information on Project Seraph is encouraged to proceed with caution.

SEP, 3307 - Prime Minister Edmund Mahon comments on the Aegis inquiry:

“The greatest regret of my career is that I was unable to formalise the Sirius Treaty at the Galactic Summit. This would have revolutionised Aegis by providing the commitment and resources it deserves, sparing it the indignity of a public inquiry.”

“The Nine Martyrs attacks prevented that historic occasion, of course, but the Sirius Treaty itself remains viable. I’d be happy to ratify it on behalf of the Alliance if we can convince the other signatories that defending humanity from the Thargoid threat should be our utmost priority.”


The anonymous figure known as Salvation claims that Thargoid forces will attack the Cornsar system. The following message was received by all major newsfeeds:

“This is Salvation. Authorities in the Cornsar system must evacuate the local population immediately. I believe a Thargoid invasion of the system is imminent. I became aware of this danger while developing a new interstellar xeno-detection network, which will be far superior to Eagle Eye. Although the network is not fully complete, we cannot dismiss this report as a false reading. Cornsar must act now.”

Carter Armstrong, Aegis chief administrator has this to say:

“Aegis cannot validate this claim. There is no indication of a Thargoid presence in the vicinity, and Cornsar is too far from their known territories to be a viable target. As most of our operations are suspended due to the public inquiry, we cannot dedicate any resources to investigate further.”

( i ) Related GalNet Articles

09.07.3307 - Scriveners Clan Abandons the Hesperus
19.07.3307 - Galactic Mysteries: The Far God Cult
27.07.3307 - Aegis Investigated After Megaship Loss
29.07.3307 - Far God Megaship Initiative Concludes
06.08.3307 - Thargoid Cultists Prepare for Religious Voyages
11.08.3307 - Aegis Probed by Board of Inquiry
17.08.3307 - Leaked Report Exposes Aegis Failures
31.08.3307 - Hyford's Cache Reveals Mysterious Project
07.09.3307 - Mahon: Sirius Treaty Would Save Aegis
14.09.3307 - Salvation Warns of Thargoid Strike


ACT IV

SEP, 3307 - Thargoids attack the Cornsar system, devastating two stations located in-system. Aegis, who didn't recogise Salvation's warnings as legitimate, are unprepared and unable to respond. In response, the Pilot's Federation call on all Commanders who are available to help.

As the battle rages in Cornsar, the Thargoid ships unexpectedly withdraw into Witchspace. Chadwick Port and Ito market sustain heavy damage as evacuation, rescue and reparation initiatives go underway.

Crashed Thargoid vessels are discovered on bodies in the Cornsar system, confirmed by Aegis' observation teams. However, no official explanation is offered. Shortly after, Salvation claims credit for the Thargoid retreat:

“This is Salvation. The Thargoid invasion of Cornsar has now been repulsed, thanks to prototype anti-xeno weaponry that I have been developing for some time. I have achieved what Aegis could not – an effective deterrent against the alien threat.”

Vox Galactica's freelance journalist Alexei Keel releases a special report:

“To deliver vital components for his mysterious anti-xeno weapon, Salvation once again recruited independent pilots, directly messaging those who had performed tasks for him before. However, this time a counter-initiative was formed by those who did not trust his motivations. It was also supported by believers in non-aggression against the Thargoids, and others who feared that the weapon might endanger Cornsar’s population....

...Aegis is investigating the Cornsar incident, but with faith in that organisation at an all-time low, individual Commanders are now taking matters into their own hands. Time will tell if Salvation’s ambition to replace Aegis is a noble goal, or if we are replacing the devil we know with a darker demon.”


Salvation goes on to contact players who supplied "Basic Medicines" to Cornsar and invites them to the Mbooni system. A Megaship located there has a Tech Broken contact who provides pilots who seek them uniquely engineered Anti-Xeno combat weapons.

( i ) Related GalNet Articles

16.09.3307 - Thargoid Strike Follows Salvation's Prediction
20.09.3307 - Thargoids Vanish From Cornsar System
22.09.3307 - Salvation Takes Credit For Repelling Thargoids
27.09.3307 - Salvation: Friend Or Foe?

When you compare it with X4, NMS, Space Engineers or whatever none of them has as much story/lore development as ED have, thats pretty much a fact.
 
Galnet is throwing out new lore at a rate of knots if you ask me.

It might not be lore Drew can or wants to relate to but to say it's not there is a bit disingenuous isn't it?
I have some complaints about Elite, even some complaints about the lore, but I think the Galnet writers have been knocking the ball out of the park since the great "resurrection" earlier this year.

That's not to say I'm totally satisfied with the story lines - I would love some truly "dramatic" happenings in Elite, like Thargoids posing a real and existential threat to the Bubble, but the lack of this is likely more to do with the game's design than it does any lack of vision of the Galnet authors.
 
When you compare it with X4, NMS, Space Engineers or whatever none of them has as much story/lore development as ED have, thats pretty much a fact.
How I wish it was better representated in-game than just a few text articles, or to be able to skip through all the older stuff in the Codex. I've been playing since 2015 and apart from some Guardian/Thargoid things and Distant Worlds, I barely have a clue what happened along the way. I've always been operating in my own little bubble (despite being in Open) and apart from Powerplay modules it all had 0% impact on my experience.
 
How I wish it was better representated in-game than just a few text articles, or to be able to skip through all the older stuff in the Codex. I've been playing since 2015 and apart from some Guardian/Thargoid things and Distant Worlds, I barely have a clue what happened along the way. I've always been operating in my own little bubble (despite being in Open) and apart from Powerplay modules it all had 0% impact on my experience.
Sure, there is room for improvement there. Of course, the less 'optional' anything is in ED the more people complain they 'cant blaze their own trail'. In any case, I doubt an author of books would be primarily upset about stories being represented using text. :p
 
When you compare it with X4, NMS, Space Engineers or whatever none of them has as much story/lore development as ED have, thats pretty much a fact.
To be fair, X Universe (which includes X4) actually does have some pretty good lore. It even has a series of books similar to Drew's books for ED. It's one of the things that helped me get into X4, because every system and race has a story behind it. My biggest complaint when it comes to lore in X4 is that I don't really get a sense that races / factions are different based on how these factions actually "play the game". Teladi should operate very differently than Split when it comes to things like trade vs war, yet in X4 everything feels like it's just one AI that has been reskinned for each race, all behaving the same way.

NMS also has a lore of sorts, though I find it a bit less "articulate" than ED and X Universe. Uncovering the "lore" is indeed part of the gameplay, though it doesn't drive me in the same way that X4 and ED did.

And of course there's really no lore at all in Space Engineers, though I've told Drew that we write our own lore. A public server in SE is similar to Eve, in that we build our own communities, fleets, bases, etc, and over time a lore forms based on who does what, who is hostile vs. who is friendly, what great battles have taken place, etc. Heck, maybe I should become a keeper of SE lore on my server, creating tourist beacons around great events for future generations!
 
Sure, there is room for improvement there. Of course, the less 'optional' anything is in ED the more people complain they 'cant blaze their own trail'. In any case, I doubt an author of books would be primarily upset about stories being represented using text. :p
I see what you mean, but for me blazing your own trail doesn't mean the background has to be fairly static. If anything, it would make it all the more interesting if you have to navigate your way through a for example massive struggle between the superpowers.

And I can't speak for authors obviously, but personally I feel like part of the challenge and the beauty would be to have your book translated into the game(play) and overall experience (just like movie adaptations and such). Otherwise they might as well just throw the books in the ARX store.
 
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