Ok, so FD can replace tags.
Cheating
- Thread starter Rich32uk
- Start date
Are these permabans or a slap-on-the-wrist 1 week off? FDev being vague again.
Which is why it's procedurally generated. Frontier do not store the entire galaxy anywhere; it is generated as needed using the Stellar Forge, on both the server and client. If they generated the entire galaxy beforehand, it would take an extremely long amount of time.
(And by "galaxy" I mean basically any object in the game - whether it be a system, body, or station - they are generated by the Stellar Forge, either procedurally or using manual data as input.)
They seem to have their own system which they aren't for sharing.
I think it's the right call as it involves the security of their game.
Leaving it up to the community will only lead to witch-hunts or giving a platform to cheaters who don't care about being banned(f2p accounts).
It's a better system than most i've experienced.
It's a lot more complicated than many think.
Yep, my badI'm not the OP!
I'm just a random dude who saw a thread about cheating and I thought "Hey I'mma tag along and voice my biggest concerns about cheating" and some how EVERYONE starts ragging on me and this just became a full-out exploration discussion
I'm like wuuuut? Why am I getting this much attention
Yes, my understanding of that talk has always been that the evolution step described there is in fact done on the fly in the client when you load a system (probably with some caching for systems you've previously visited). Certainly a great deal of work went into setting up the model, and the results - probably in the form of per-boxel parameters - have been baked into the client since the first release. But as Ian says, a really dramatically impressive bit is that they've arranged the model to run so fast that it feels like the system data already exists somewhere and is just being loaded. To the best of my knowledge, no information at all is loaded from Frontier servers during the system generation phase.
As far as I know, the only mass untagging in ED history was when the game released and tags from early access players were reset. This caused some considerable salt, but wasn't actually unexpected. Otherwise, FDev certainly has the ability to untag systems, but they don't make a habit of it.
Hello again commander,
I'm not the most experienced explorer there is but i've been into the 6 extremities of our galaxy. I'm currrently 41kly from Sol and i invite you to join the second seat of my Phantom for a while if you wish to take a look into the deep space. We'll be on my vessel, under my procedures and i can assure you safety is one of my top priorities, followed by performance, so no risk for you. We can ride together for as long as you like and you can ask all the questions you want about the ride. If you wish, i can give you my opinion about your plans for exploring too.
Regarding cheaters, dont let it keep you from exploring. In fact, there are cheaters as you're rising awareness here. I know this because i've found their trails when exploring.
About 3 months ago i was sweeping a region over ~6kly from the Bubble in search for crystalline shards. During this sweeping i've found many systems in which only its ELW or WW were scanned. Yep, not even the main star was scanned. It was not once or twice, but many times. I know some commanders do jump from system to system and look at the FSS and only scan valuable bodies then leave, it was not the case. I know how procedural system generation works and i was sweeping the star groups with that in mind and so were the cheaters (yeah it was more than one CMDR name).
Still, it didn't dissapointed me, much. I believe that most of those despiseble players don't go too far away from the bubble as there are easier ways to make profit and exploration ranks can be achieved quickly.
Exploring the galaxy is not exactly about the galaxy itself. Some systems you'll discover will probably remain unvisited for ever. The galaxy is huge (second only to the ego of some commanders) so our achievements doesn't mean much. It's about our own experience, how much fun we can get out of our ships and space.
I believe that being far enough from the bubble you wont bump into the trail of cheaters. I can't promise that very knowledgeable and experienced explorers (those that wander far from the bubble) are not users of cheat themselves (seeing refute instead of concern over this topic lightened up this possibility to me) specially if you take into account that many top-tier competitors have been caugh cheating in the history of games. Still, we're talking about finding a coin in the pacific ocean scale.
Feel free to contact me if you're interested to take a look out there.
o7
Hi All
@ DarwinPon
I understand the points you are making I came into this game more or less at the start / release of Elite Dangerous, worked up in the 'ranks' so to speak in the realms of Exploration and Trade, getting a ship that finally had a decent jump range to go and do some serious exploring. All by doing what is 'legally available' in the game.
Quote...."It's just that to think I had to hone my skills and perfect my ship to do all of this, whereas some random cheater could just do it without even trying, it's a sour taste in the mouth you know?"...Unquote.
Exactly how I feel, but what can be done (practically) to rectify the present game world of those systems that have been affected ?
Here's a theoretical scenario.....Just for an example, if Frontier could eradicate those Cmdr's names (from the systems) who have discovered them by unfair means, how then could those systems be introduced back into the game?
Would it be on a 'first come first served' basis? (for re-discovery)....how would we get to know about this?
Would there be an in game announcement at some point?
How could Frontier implement this whereby doing so would not put, basically, all 'fair playing' Cmdr's at a disadvantage for one reason or another.
Here's how I see it, the damage has been done, there's no real 'fair' way to rectify the past , those systems that have been affected?....in my humble opinion those systems should be deemed discovered by no one, much as in the same way as the Sol system is now. Is that possible, would most if not all the community of players accept this, would / could this be done by Frontier, more to the point, does Frontier think this has any real priority over any other content in the game.?
I haven't a clue really, I just basically play what's offered on the plate so to speak. I've got my Cmdr's name on a few systems and planets, some players well into exploration must have thousands of systems with first discovered, that's not even counting 'first mapped' and now 'first footfall'. Ye gods!...if the latter two are also 'affected' by the same means, probably are?. Bit of a mess all round if this is the case. 
Jack
Thanks but I think you missed my point. I have no doubt that going out there will give me lots of first discoveries, in fact statistically if I go far enough I'll be encountering new systems almost all the time. It's just that to think I had to hone my skills and perfect my ship to do all of this, whereas some random cheater could just do it without even trying, it's a sour taste in the mouth you know?
It's like you won an Olympic gold medal and as you were standing on stage kissing your hard-earned gold you see someone selling the same gold medal right next to you and a dozen people just bought the same gold medal without having to compete.
@Jumpin' Jack Flash Thanks for the long post dude, but I'm afraid you missed my point
@ DarwinPon
I understand the points you are making
I came into this game more or less at the start / release of Elite Dangerous, worked up in the 'ranks' so to speak in the realms of Exploration and Trade, getting a ship that finally had a decent jump range to go and do some serious exploring. All by doing what is 'legally available' in the game.Quote...."It's just that to think I had to hone my skills and perfect my ship to do all of this, whereas some random cheater could just do it without even trying, it's a sour taste in the mouth you know?"...Unquote.
Exactly how I feel, but what can be done (practically) to rectify the present game world of those systems that have been affected ?
Here's a theoretical scenario.....Just for an example, if Frontier could eradicate those Cmdr's names (from the systems) who have discovered them by unfair means, how then could those systems be introduced back into the game?
Would it be on a 'first come first served' basis? (for re-discovery)....how would we get to know about this?
Would there be an in game announcement at some point?
How could Frontier implement this whereby doing so would not put, basically, all 'fair playing' Cmdr's at a disadvantage for one reason or another.
Here's how I see it, the damage has been done, there's no real 'fair' way to rectify the past , those systems that have been affected?....in my humble opinion those systems should be deemed discovered by no one, much as in the same way as the Sol system is now. Is that possible, would most if not all the community of players accept this, would / could this be done by Frontier, more to the point, does Frontier think this has any real priority over any other content in the game.?
I haven't a clue really, I just basically play what's offered on the plate so to speak. I've got my Cmdr's name on a few systems and planets, some players well into exploration must have thousands of systems with first discovered, that's not even counting 'first mapped' and now 'first footfall'. Ye gods!...if the latter two are also 'affected' by the same means, probably are?
. Bit of a mess all round if this is the case. Jack
Star scanning was changed around.. 3.3? Used to have to waste time to scan them and people hunting ELWs probably skipped it.
Probably not cheaters; prior to the exploration refresh that introduced the current FSS/DSS mechanism, this was a common result. In those days honking revealed a low-detail system map but didn't tag anything - you had to fly close to and scan a body to tag it, a bit like mapping now. As a result, lots of systems didn't have a tagged main star, because they weren't worth much. With practice it was possible to determine from the system map which bodies were ELWs and WWs (it involved, among other things, learning to interpret the background noise in the soundtrack) and only take the time to scan those.
If i recall correctly one set of WW were like 250kly from the main star, pretty far and i didnt go scan it because of that.
So people located WW/ELW by the system map's soundtrack when you selected the bodies stated as unknown?
Oh yes, there was a whole science to it!
If you had good eyes you could also figure it out from the holograms, although I was always mistaking rocky ice for ELWs.
I looked at the HUD holo.
Yeah, I have a vague recollection of something like that happening.
I don't think I had any objections to that, as I recall being surprised that credits/ranks/ships gained during the Gamma phase weren't wiped...
Hmm, couple years ago there was statement that they dont do it, while technically, there should be not a problem for them to do it manually. But if they can do it (obvsly if asked only), then hope is not lost I guess.
I care about "first" tags, as one being one of early pionners of this game, I simply cant be pleased by mere random ELW or anything wich is that much common to find and see. Ive seen and tagged hundreds of these, and I am fond of really nice and really rare things. Almost all of my exploration goals was reached years ago, back in 2015-16, among it was;yes, but that doesnt matter for me since i started at the end of 2018 (and as everyone else i went to the fringes for the first trip and every system was tagged already)
and it certainly doesnt matter for any more or less newer players.
So, yes, while generally speaking Cheating is bad - i cannot say it affect my gameplay in the last 3 years
Not once.
Being within 100 first cmdrs who offically visit sagA* - check.
Tagged as first; Wolf-rayet - check
First visited and tagged planetary nebulas - check.
First visited and tagged ELW or WW around gas giants as moons - check.
First visited and tagged Ringed ELW or WW - check.
Horsehead nebula - yes, been there before permit. And tagged few bodies within it too. I wish that I can go visit it again, someday.
First visited and tagged A-AA systems - check.
First visited and tagged Giant massive stars - check.
Visiting Beagle point - check.
There is bit more, but list would be too long.
Anyway,
Whats left for me wich I did not seen and tag, from really rare things is GGG, but I am not looking for it either. Going around galaxy dont intrest me at slightlest, and will never bother, and I dont think is anything left for to bother to see... maybe raxlaa if that even exist, but it must be found out first, by someone.
But game is around already for long enough, I can see why most ppl might not care about it, cuz at start, for most of them, it was bit too "late" for reaching such goals as "First", and at 2018, most of things already found out.
Glad someone else pointed that out. And, realky that cheat list (real or not), was only relevant pre-FSS... unlimited scan distance? FSS does that. Instant body scan? FSS does that compared to the old spinning scanner. In fact, there is even more reason to go out exploring now - no cheat for surface mapping golf, no cheat for first footfall or biologicals, weird space lifeforms, lightning clouds, etc...
The only thing of relevance on that list is the jump range. Even that is of negligible relevance to the vast majority of exploration, especially if you're just looking for new first tags.
Scooping is not dangerous. Long deep space exploration is not dangerous - unless you fly really intoxicated, but even then there is a whole network of FCs, the Fuel Rats, Rescue Rats(?). Exploration has never been easier, more rewarding, or less affected by cheating than it is now.
My exploration alt left the Bubble 2 weeks ago.
Apparently I have a knack for finding the road less travelled, progress has been rather slow due to the sheer number of fist discoveries I'm making.
Will need to stop off for repairs, a close binary pair cooked the Asp a bit.
Apparently I have a knack for finding the road less travelled, progress has been rather slow due to the sheer number of fist discoveries I'm making.
Will need to stop off for repairs, a close binary pair cooked the Asp a bit.
Well I mean this did happen before and I would think as soon as cheaters are caught Fdev could just modify the first discover tag to the second ship that mapped the system using the traffic logs that we know they have. I know this is probably not on their priority list which is exactly why I made my original comment, so that my concerns about cheating can be heard, and hopefully addressed as part of any future cheating updates. That's the whole point really, to not be left behind when the fixes come.Hi All
@ DarwinPon
I understand the points you are making
Quote...."It's just that to think I had to hone my skills and perfect my ship to do all of this, whereas some random cheater could just do it without even trying, it's a sour taste in the mouth you know?"...Unquote.
Exactly how I feel, but what can be done (practically) to rectify the present game world of those systems that have been affected ?
Here's a theoretical scenario.....Just for an example, if Frontier could eradicate those Cmdr's names (from the systems) who have discovered them by unfair means, how then could those systems be introduced back into the game?
Would it be on a 'first come first served' basis? (for re-discovery)....how would we get to know about this?
Would there be an in game announcement at some point?
How could Frontier implement this whereby doing so would not put, basically, all 'fair playing' Cmdr's at a disadvantage for one reason or another.
Here's how I see it, the damage has been done, there's no real 'fair' way to rectify the past , those systems that have been affected?....in my humble opinion those systems should be deemed discovered by no one, much as in the same way as the Sol system is now. Is that possible, would most if not all the community of players accept this, would / could this be done by Frontier, more to the point, does Frontier think this has any real priority over any other content in the game.?
I haven't a clue really, I just basically play what's offered on the plate so to speak. I've got my Cmdr's name on a few systems and planets, some players well into exploration must have thousands of systems with first discovered, that's not even counting 'first mapped' and now 'first footfall'. Ye gods!...if the latter two are also 'affected' by the same means, probably are?
Jack
Yeah I did some exploration before that change. You needed to lock star as target and go to scanning range. Many times I did not bother. Just went for most valuable planets, and that was it. From nowadays viewpoint some would later come to some system with my early tags and think "cheater"...
Literally nobody would think that. You're not seriously still questioning the existence of exploration cheaters after all the information that has been thrown out by myself and others?