Analyzing required animals by Taxonomical group
Storks are usually kept in open habitats in North America. Anyway...
Pelecaniformes:
I'd regard having at least one pelican species as essential, with my top two candidates being the great white pelican of Afro-Eurasia and the brown pelican of the Americas. I'd really like to have at least one ibis, probably the scarlet ibis, but I almost always see them in closed or indoor habitats, and it's a similar with spoonbills like the roseate spoonbill or the African spoonbill. Herons and egrets aren't extremely popular zoo species, but the cattle egret makes a lot of sense for mixed savannah habitats. Finally, while not essential and quite rare in captivity, the shoebill is so fascinating and popular with animal lovers as to warrant inclusion in a similar manner to the platypus.
Storks:
While not as essential as the grey crowned crane, I think getting at least one stork is essential with two being preferable. The ideal combination of two is probably the marabou stork, an iconic African scavenger, and the white stork, a multi-continental animal with a huge role in European culture and mythology. Both have wide captive presences, and I'd give the white stork the edge on which is most essential. Honorable mention to the saddle-billed stork
Other lizards:
If we ever get more standard exhibit animals, one of the most obvious essential candidates is a chameleon. Many good candidates but the top three are probably the veiled, Jackson's, and panther chameleons. I'm also partial to the Fiji banded iguana as the one that should have been in the base game (and is a better fit for the exhibit boxes), the central bearded dragon as an extremely common and well-known species, the Solomon Islands skink as unique and fairly common in captivity live-bearing lizard, the northern caiman lizard as a popular semiaquatic carnivore, and and the common chuckwalla as a common North American desert herbivore.
Gastropods:
Nah. A banana slug would be kind of funny but it's not something I actually want.
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Also, the final round should include an "Other ground/wading birds" category as a grab-bag, especially for ground-dwelling species in orders which are mostly aviary birds (e.g. secretary bird, southern ground hornbill).
I'm so confused by why this matters so much. If one stork can be programmed to function in a habitat they most likely all can.
If you want a roof over its head, build one.
Not trying to be rude, I just really don't get the logic here. Do we really want to miss out on birds because Frontier is not forcing us to place them inside of some kind of aviary system nobody can agree on how would work?
Don't worry, I have it all planned
To keep discussion meaningful. When discussing terrestrial/WE animals, we have a basis for discussion both in what we have and what we can expect.
Aviaries are a complete blackbox, beyond the general consensus of "we want aviaries". Some people think pretty much every bird should be habitat, some think all should be aviaries, and some are inbetween.
So to avoid the old argument of whether flying birds could fit as habitats, WEs, or an entirely different system, I decided to avoid them altogether until further developments in the game.
So until we get aviary birds in the game, to keep discussion focused and civil people should provide proof that their candidates fit within current game mechanics.
Hope this explantation is adequate
Iguanas... a chameleon is essential. I opt for the panther chameleon as the most awesome looking.
Snails... none
Storks... definitely need at least one, preferably the marabou, painted, or saddle-billed.
Pelicans... essentials would be the goofy-looking shoebill, and the gorgeous roseate spoonbill and scarlet ibis. Nice but not essential would be any pelican.
Snails... none
Storks... definitely need at least one, preferably the marabou, painted, or saddle-billed.
Pelicans... essentials would be the goofy-looking shoebill, and the gorgeous roseate spoonbill and scarlet ibis. Nice but not essential would be any pelican.
But the line is not being drawn equally.
There are 1000+ species of bats. Second largest mammalian order. Yet, no matter which bat I suggest it will be part of the discussion, without questions about how they are housed in real life. Most of them are not even being housed at all. We just assume they all function the same because of one individual in the game. And this makes sense, since this is true with a few exceptions.
There are 19 species of storks. They will pretty much behave the same if we ignore flight, just like Frontier did with the other flying birds in PZ.
Yet we have to discuss every suggested species depending on if they have a cover or not in real life. Even though that won't matter for the animal in PZ.
Fair enough to exclude some bird groups because they are too tricky to figure out how would work. But storks are not going to be much different than cranes and flamingoes. Fowls will not be much different than the peafowl.
Just like almost all bats will not be much different than the one we got.
It is all up to you in this thread of course. I just don't understand the logic, so I will try and stay out of it. I mostly interfered because I think it is a shame we hold back our bird wishes because some players want a higher bare minimum for realism than the game has shown so far. I fear this is why Frontier themselves just find it easier to keep doing mammals.
My choices for these groups include:
Pelecaniformes
The only essential for me is a pelican. I would prefer either the great white pelican or dalmatian pelican, as both would function well in many different geographical-themed areas of zoos, are both commonly-kept in open-topped and walkthrough enclosures and are some of the most charismatic birds that could reasonably fit into the game.
On the other end of the scale, the shoebill is near the top of the list of animals I don't want. As well as not being that common in captivity, they are almost impossible to breed (I believe they have only successfully bred in captivity on two occasions) and so almost all birds in zoos have come from the wild - it is a problem to the extent that the IUCN considers the capture of shoebill chicks for sale to zoos to be a threat to their wild survival.
Storks
The white stork is probably the most commonly-kept species and can live in large open-topped paddocks, including walkthrough enclosures and mixed displays with other animals such as hoofstock. Their cultural significance in Europe, and the fact that they represent Europe, Africa and West Asia are also important factors.
For me though, my preferred stork would be the black stork - they too can be kept in large outdoor walkthrough enclosures and mixed displays, are very distinctive-looking birds and have a wider geographical and biome range - they breed from western Europe right across to the Asian Pacific coast, winter in India and Africa and also breed in southern Africa. They are kept in 160 zoos across Europe and Israel alone, so are certainly not an uncommon species.
This picture shows an open-topped walkthrough enclosure in the Netherlands, where both dalmatian pelicans and black storks are visible; they also live with cranes and three species of ungulate:
www.zoochat.com
Lower on my list is the saddle-billed stork - a magnificent and beautifully-coloured bird that currently lives only in sub-Saharan Africa, although it did have great cultural importance to the ancient Egyptians. However, I have never seen one myself and only one zoo in Europe routinely breeds the species, so I cannot consider it essential.
The marabou is lower on my list - not only do I not find them particularly nice to look at, there are all sorts of problems associated with them in open paddocks in zoos. The major one is that, despite being often kept in mixed enclosures, they are not at all suitable for being housed in such a way. Many of the zoo associations do not recommend mixing them, as they rarely if ever breed in such situations and are at high risk of being killed by aggressive hoofstock. There is also a very distressing video on Youtube (which I won't link here) which shows a marabou in a Spanish zoo dragging a gazelle fawn into the enclosure moat and drowning it.
Iguania
A chameleon is a must as an exhibit species - the veiled is the most commonly-kept species, while the panther is among the most colourful and the Mediterranean has a range covering three different continents. I would gladly accept any of those.
Probably the other agamid that verges on being essential in my mind is the Asian water dragon. It would have a lot going for it, being the only Asian lizard in the game, attractive to look at, a species listed as Vulnerable in the wild and very common in captivity.
Gastropods
Probably no other gastropod is necessary, but to showcase the conservation of critically endangered snails that goes on in zoos, I would love to see the Vietnamese giant magnolia snail Bertia cambojiensis included. It was thought to be extinct until they were rediscovered in 2012 and since then several zoos in the UK have taken them in and started breeding them, including London Zoo. It has the advantage over the similarly-threatened Partula and Madeira land snails by being very large in size.
Pelecaniformes
The only essential for me is a pelican. I would prefer either the great white pelican or dalmatian pelican, as both would function well in many different geographical-themed areas of zoos, are both commonly-kept in open-topped and walkthrough enclosures and are some of the most charismatic birds that could reasonably fit into the game.
On the other end of the scale, the shoebill is near the top of the list of animals I don't want. As well as not being that common in captivity, they are almost impossible to breed (I believe they have only successfully bred in captivity on two occasions) and so almost all birds in zoos have come from the wild - it is a problem to the extent that the IUCN considers the capture of shoebill chicks for sale to zoos to be a threat to their wild survival.
Storks
The white stork is probably the most commonly-kept species and can live in large open-topped paddocks, including walkthrough enclosures and mixed displays with other animals such as hoofstock. Their cultural significance in Europe, and the fact that they represent Europe, Africa and West Asia are also important factors.
For me though, my preferred stork would be the black stork - they too can be kept in large outdoor walkthrough enclosures and mixed displays, are very distinctive-looking birds and have a wider geographical and biome range - they breed from western Europe right across to the Asian Pacific coast, winter in India and Africa and also breed in southern Africa. They are kept in 160 zoos across Europe and Israel alone, so are certainly not an uncommon species.
This picture shows an open-topped walkthrough enclosure in the Netherlands, where both dalmatian pelicans and black storks are visible; they also live with cranes and three species of ungulate:
Asian Walk-through at Overloon 14/05/09 - ZooChat
Home to Dalmatian Pelicans, Black Storks, Cranes, Blackbuck, Vietnamese Sika and Reeves' Muntjac. Definitely one of the highlights of an otherwise fairly generic park.
www.zoochat.com
Lower on my list is the saddle-billed stork - a magnificent and beautifully-coloured bird that currently lives only in sub-Saharan Africa, although it did have great cultural importance to the ancient Egyptians. However, I have never seen one myself and only one zoo in Europe routinely breeds the species, so I cannot consider it essential.
The marabou is lower on my list - not only do I not find them particularly nice to look at, there are all sorts of problems associated with them in open paddocks in zoos. The major one is that, despite being often kept in mixed enclosures, they are not at all suitable for being housed in such a way. Many of the zoo associations do not recommend mixing them, as they rarely if ever breed in such situations and are at high risk of being killed by aggressive hoofstock. There is also a very distressing video on Youtube (which I won't link here) which shows a marabou in a Spanish zoo dragging a gazelle fawn into the enclosure moat and drowning it.
Iguania
A chameleon is a must as an exhibit species - the veiled is the most commonly-kept species, while the panther is among the most colourful and the Mediterranean has a range covering three different continents. I would gladly accept any of those.
Probably the other agamid that verges on being essential in my mind is the Asian water dragon. It would have a lot going for it, being the only Asian lizard in the game, attractive to look at, a species listed as Vulnerable in the wild and very common in captivity.
Gastropods
Probably no other gastropod is necessary, but to showcase the conservation of critically endangered snails that goes on in zoos, I would love to see the Vietnamese giant magnolia snail Bertia cambojiensis included. It was thought to be extinct until they were rediscovered in 2012 and since then several zoos in the UK have taken them in and started breeding them, including London Zoo. It has the advantage over the similarly-threatened Partula and Madeira land snails by being very large in size.
I would like the roseate spoonbill and Brown Pelican. Also the Southern bald Ibis and buff-necked Ibis (Scarlet Ibis would also be ok).
I don't Care about snails.
We need more lizards: Chameleon, Gecko, water agamas, frilled Lizard, other dragon-like lizards are also welcome. And I would like the marine iguana even though it is not kept in zoos.
I don't Care about snails.
We need more lizards: Chameleon, Gecko, water agamas, frilled Lizard, other dragon-like lizards are also welcome. And I would like the marine iguana even though it is not kept in zoos.
I think the key is, as you said, most bats are not kept in captivity, and we have one in the game. I must say regarding bats, I've seen like 20 bat displays in zoos, and I've never seen one as large as the WE, plus most weren't walkthrough. So what we have in the game is already "unrealistic", but it does give us a base for discussion.
If you guys want me to open more "controversial" bird groups, I'd gladly do, but I'd rather wait at least until the next DLC to see what surprises are in store regarding birds.
Funny, I have never seen a bat enclosure that was not Walkthrough
.2 more species of common bats are welcome but more is not necessary in my opinion.
Iguana
I don't want more unless the original ones get out if the exhibit box. If they do I'd love a marine Iguana. Also chameleon cause I'm pretty sure their in the same group. If we got 1 more exhibit animal this would be it.
Stork
I think 1 is needed. Not essential bit needed. Either white or marabou I think it just depends on our pack themes. I don't really mind which.
Pelican
Would love a pelican. Easily essential. I'd probably go for the austrlian one since their an oceania rep and their really well known in Australia. Wouldn't mind any other species.
Gastropod
Don't want anymore. I am happy we got the one though.
Edit: also learnt there apart of the group. Either royal or roseate spoonbill would be really nice. Also wouldn't mind a cattle egret.
I don't want more unless the original ones get out if the exhibit box. If they do I'd love a marine Iguana. Also chameleon cause I'm pretty sure their in the same group. If we got 1 more exhibit animal this would be it.
Stork
I think 1 is needed. Not essential bit needed. Either white or marabou I think it just depends on our pack themes. I don't really mind which.
Pelican
Would love a pelican. Easily essential. I'd probably go for the austrlian one since their an oceania rep and their really well known in Australia. Wouldn't mind any other species.
Gastropod
Don't want anymore. I am happy we got the one though.
Edit: also learnt there apart of the group. Either royal or roseate spoonbill would be really nice. Also wouldn't mind a cattle egret.
I feel like we don't have any animals that are absolutely required from the last few groups which is why I haven't been commenting, but we finally do get to this one.
We're fine on iguanas and Gastropods, IMO.
But I keep saying, we need more birds!
Pelecaniformes - Yes, we need a Pelican. I also personally really want a Scarlet Ibis, but that may not be a need for the players as a whole. Still, I'm going to count it. Additionally I'd really love to see the Roseate Spoonbill make it in, but it's not "required" per se.
Storks - 100% need and I really hope it will be the Shoebill Stork. This is one of a handful of habitat appropriate birds I really hope we get because I do feel like we need them. A second Stork would be great, the Saddle Billed, Marabou or even the White Stork would be a great second species. But at least 1 is required.
So basically this group, birds, birds and more birds.
Pelecaniformes: Even though I could personally live without it, I think a species of pelican is objectively essential as pelicans are present in almost every zoo. I have a soft spot for the Australian pelican but the great white or the brown would be good choices too. Other than that, I really want both the scarlet ibis and the sacred ibis, but I've never seen them in open enclosures so I guess they are not relevant to this discussion.
Storks: I've never seen a stork kept outside an aviary, not even the marabou stork. In all the zoos I'm familiar with, marabou storks are kept in aviaries. But Planckendael (a zoo in Belgium) is famous for having more than 100 wild white storks living on the zoo grounds. So I guess white stork could work as a habitat animal. I'm not opposed to their inclusion but not essential IMO.
Iguanias: A CHAMELEON is absolutely essential. It's my most desired exhibit animal at this point. Preference for the panther chameleon because it's the most iconic IMO and quite common in captivity. But I would gladly take any species. Other than a chameleon, I think we still need more lizards. My priorities are the frilled-necked lizard and the thorny devil. I also recently discovered the Fiji banded iguana and I think it would also be a great inclusion. Very different from the iguanas we already have, very colorful and endangered.
Gastropods: I love snails and slugs but it's definitely not essential to get more.
So the most essential thing for me here is a chameleon species (personal preference for the panther chameleon). Other essentials are any pelican species, scarlet and sacred ibises (but not sure they are relevant to this discussion because I've always seen them in aviaries) and at least one more lizard (personal preference for frilled-necked lizard or thorny devil).
Storks: I've never seen a stork kept outside an aviary, not even the marabou stork. In all the zoos I'm familiar with, marabou storks are kept in aviaries. But Planckendael (a zoo in Belgium) is famous for having more than 100 wild white storks living on the zoo grounds. So I guess white stork could work as a habitat animal. I'm not opposed to their inclusion but not essential IMO.
Iguanias: A CHAMELEON is absolutely essential. It's my most desired exhibit animal at this point. Preference for the panther chameleon because it's the most iconic IMO and quite common in captivity. But I would gladly take any species. Other than a chameleon, I think we still need more lizards. My priorities are the frilled-necked lizard and the thorny devil. I also recently discovered the Fiji banded iguana and I think it would also be a great inclusion. Very different from the iguanas we already have, very colorful and endangered.
Gastropods: I love snails and slugs but it's definitely not essential to get more.
So the most essential thing for me here is a chameleon species (personal preference for the panther chameleon). Other essentials are any pelican species, scarlet and sacred ibises (but not sure they are relevant to this discussion because I've always seen them in aviaries) and at least one more lizard (personal preference for frilled-necked lizard or thorny devil).
There is nothing about habitat animals that means they can’t be enclosed (just build a roof) and nothing about WT exhibits that means they can’t be open (null wallls).
DISCUSSION #13
Fowls
The must have ones are Asian wild species of pheasant: Golden, Lady Amherst's, Reeve's, Silver and whatnot. In perfect world we could get two. But I feel like one of those is truly essential. I am yet to visit a zoo that doesn't have at least one of those four if not all. Also Gunieafowls would be an excellent addition, but not essential.
Monitor Lizards
Habitat reptiles is a niche that can really be expanded on. Especially with all the interesting species left in Oceania. Even tho Lace and Argus Monitor are more represented in international collections, I would still love to see Perentie more. It's just a more striking species for me, and the monitor species are the ones where I can easily suspend my disbelief. Also it's never bad to have more option for making zoos in other areas that aren't EU and NA. Maybe not the most essential stuff, but another monitor is maybe the next important thing after all the essentials.
Arthropods
I'm good.
DISCUSSION #14
Pelicans and Ibises
Number #1 pick for me here is Dalmatian Pelican. The biggest pelican species that spreads throughout whole of old world, also pretty fairly distributed in zoos (at least EU). I would not be opposed to an American or Australian species as well, but the second pelican is far from essential for me, while I believe that one pelican is a definite must have. As for Ibises (I hope that's correct plural) I don't need much, maybe Scarlet and Bald species.
Storks
I believe at least one is essential, while two would still be great inclusions. My top three picks would be White, Black and Shoebill stork. Out of Shoebills, I think they're less essential, but it would be nice to see Eurasian and Roseate Shoebill.
Iguanas and Chameleons
I believe we're set for iguanas, but at least two chameleon species are essential for me. In reality I wouldn't care which one, but since I get to choose I would ask for Common Chameleon, due to distribution and usability, and Panther Chameleon due to the looks and habitat. Also another essential lizard yet to be added in game is Frilled Lizard, I am just expecting it in any pack after Australian, such an iconic species and not uncommon in zoos. One non-essential pick that I really like and would help out enrich middle-eastern and desert sections is an Egyptian Spiny Tailed Lizard.
I don't need any snails
I know. I just thought we could only mention non-aviary birds in this thread. But maybe I misunderstood the rules.