Analyzing required animals by Taxonomical group
I mentioned them there because they are somewhat similiar in appearence, lifestyle and niche and because i had no clue if there was gonna be a misc lizards category
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Lol I get it. And yeah the remaining lizards get focus in the next discussion. After the next one we should be done with literally every mammal, reptile, and amphibian group in existance.I mentioned them there because they are somewhat similiar in appearence, lifestyle and niche and because i had no clue if there was gonna be a misc lizards category
@yoav_r Would it be possible that when you update a group on the main post you add the date in which it has been updated? Now that we have many sections I always forget which groups I have already read and I don't know which is the least group that has been updated, so I end up opening all the sections again.
It would be a bit too much work, but the thread will end this week anyway (until aviaries that is), so then you could do a full retrospective
Lagomorphs: I want a European rabbit really badly, not sure tought if I would say they are essential. Specially the fact they're endangered and from the mediterranean, of which we don't have any really good representation yet (I think the red deer is the closest?).
Hyraxes: I need to agree, the rock hyrax is the only real option I see as viable, but by no means it's something essential.
Pangolins: I'm happy with the representation we have. But if we wouldn't have one yet, it would probably be very high on my wishlist.
Flamingos and grebes: I personally don't need any further species. A greater crested grebe would be nice due to its distribution. And an American flamingo species would be good for further representation, I think specially of one of the Andean species (Chilean, Jame's or Andean). But they are far from essentials.
Galliformes: that's one of the groups I'm most needing species. I would personally need at least 4 species to be partly satisfied. I personally would go with at least two different species for Asia, one tropical and one more associated with colder climates.
My preference for the tropical species is the Edward's pheasant. Maybe not one of the most striking pheasant species but it's definitley one that needs much more attention! It is tought to be extinct in the wild and so may be one of the next species that can be saved by the big captive populations. Mostly it's held in tropical houses, but they can also be perfectly kept in outdoor aviaries during the whole year. And as we don't have yet a bird from Southeast Asia, this is my first choice (Palawan pacock pheasant and greater argus being close seconds).
For the cold species, I would personally go with an eared pheasant. Again, there aren't striking in colours, but I absolutely love the noise they make and specially their behavior. I would go with the brown eared pheasant, as they are more threatened than the other species.
For Africa, I would definitley go for a guineafowl. I personally have a weak preference for the Vulturine guineafowl. But I would really take any.
For last, we can't forget about South America. A cracid is absolutely essential. I would go with the red-billed currasow, as it's highly endangered, has a captive presence and is endemic to the Atlantic forest (of which we still don't have any endemic species).
Monitors: all I want is an Auatralian monitor. As there doesn't seem to be an endangered species with a captive populations in international collection, I would also go with the Lace monitor.
Arthropods: I would really like a crab species for the exhibit, but wouldn't consider it essential.
Pelecaniformes: a pelican species is another of my essentials. I would go with two species, the brown pelican and the great white pelican. But I could absolutely live with only one. As for ibis and spoonbill, I don't consider them essential, but both would be worth the inclusion, even tought I have a preference to see them in the WE. The shoebill on the other hand would be nice, but as mentioned by others, wouldn't be a good message conservation-wise.
Storks: I would like a species or two, but also wouldn't consider any of them essential.
Iguania: Need to agree, a chameleon species is absolutely essential. I would go with the panther chameleon. More iguanian species would also be welcome, but no priorities.
Gastropods: don't know too much about them, so I don't really have an opinion if more are necessary.
And here we are in the last conventional discussion!
Discussion #15: Old world monkeys, Insectivora*, skinks and true lizards, Caecelians
What we have:
Old world monkeys:
Insectivora*:
None
Skinks and true lizards (Lacertoidae):
Caecelians:
None
Explain what you think is still needed from the aforementioned groups, and give your reasoning as to why. Take into account that slots in the roster are not unlimited, so try to keep the discussion realistic.
*Insectivora has been retired as a taxonomic group, but for the simplification of discussion we'll discuss all its former sub-groups together, which include: hedgehogs, shrews, moles, tenrecs, elephant-shrews, tree-shrews, colugos plus a few others
Discussion #15: Old world monkeys, Insectivora*, skinks and true lizards, Caecelians
What we have:
Old world monkeys:
- Japanese Macaque
- Mandrill
- Proboscis monkey
Insectivora*:
None
Skinks and true lizards (Lacertoidae):
- Eastern blue-tongued lizard
Caecelians:
None
Explain what you think is still needed from the aforementioned groups, and give your reasoning as to why. Take into account that slots in the roster are not unlimited, so try to keep the discussion realistic.
*Insectivora has been retired as a taxonomic group, but for the simplification of discussion we'll discuss all its former sub-groups together, which include: hedgehogs, shrews, moles, tenrecs, elephant-shrews, tree-shrews, colugos plus a few others
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Old World monkeys
Yes man, we need a couple. So, here's what I consider essential and would flesh out Africa and Asia:
I don't know enough about this group to justify saying anything here is essential. I mean, there are some I like, like the yellow tenrec and hedgehogs, but I don't know how common they are in captivity
Skinks and true lizards
I'm not against any of these, but I don't know enough of these to justify their inclusion. When I think of lizards, I think of anoles (which are local), monitors, tegus, and chameleons
Caecilians
I don't consider these essential
Yes man, we need a couple. So, here's what I consider essential and would flesh out Africa and Asia:
- Colobus monkey - a visually striking species that would be quite nice in Africa themed areas
- Lion-tailed macaque - another striking species and great for India representation
- Gray langur - another Indian monkey that'll contrast the macaque
- Hamadryas baboon - a desert/scrubland monkey, our 1st baboon, and Africa/Middle East rep
I don't know enough about this group to justify saying anything here is essential. I mean, there are some I like, like the yellow tenrec and hedgehogs, but I don't know how common they are in captivity
Skinks and true lizards
I'm not against any of these, but I don't know enough of these to justify their inclusion. When I think of lizards, I think of anoles (which are local), monitors, tegus, and chameleons
Caecilians
I don't consider these essential
Old-world monkeys: Man there are so many, but Pz has limited spots so ill just list the ones i think are more or less essential. The first one that comes to mind is obviously a baboon of some sort. We will probably just get one so id prefer the hamadryas baboon, but i would not be mad if we get geladas or olive baboons instead.
Then we need atleast one tropical monkey besides the mandrill, the mantled guereza would be my monke of choice here. De brazas monkey and diana monkey are my runners up for the spot of tropical african monkey.
Asia also needs atleast one more traditional monkey for its tropical regions, since it only has the proboscis monkey. The ones id like are grey langurs, red shanked doucs, crab eating macaque, lion tailed macaque and dusky leaf monkeys.
Golden snubnosed monkeys are something that i can totally see frontier doing and i wouldnt be mad at all.
Insectivora: I dont think anything from here is essential and almost all of them would be more suited as exhibits anyways. Pretty much the only ones viable as Habitat animals would be giant elphant shrews and hedgehogs, african pygmy hedgehogs would be my pick. I think both species would be actually pretty cool for nocturnal houses, since we kinda lack a nice roster for them imo.
Skinks and true lizards: Imo there isnt anything essential here and other lizards such as chameleons should get prio. If i had to pick one it would be the stunning jeweled lacerta.
Can i still mention one member of Anguimorpha (Monitor relatives)? The scheltopusik would be a really cool species to include due to its eductional values.
Caecelians: Those guys are in essence legless salamanders trying to be worms and as such are basicly never above ground, so they would make for one hell of a wasted slot.
Then we need atleast one tropical monkey besides the mandrill, the mantled guereza would be my monke of choice here. De brazas monkey and diana monkey are my runners up for the spot of tropical african monkey.
Asia also needs atleast one more traditional monkey for its tropical regions, since it only has the proboscis monkey. The ones id like are grey langurs, red shanked doucs, crab eating macaque, lion tailed macaque and dusky leaf monkeys.
Golden snubnosed monkeys are something that i can totally see frontier doing and i wouldnt be mad at all.
Insectivora: I dont think anything from here is essential and almost all of them would be more suited as exhibits anyways. Pretty much the only ones viable as Habitat animals would be giant elphant shrews and hedgehogs, african pygmy hedgehogs would be my pick. I think both species would be actually pretty cool for nocturnal houses, since we kinda lack a nice roster for them imo.
Skinks and true lizards: Imo there isnt anything essential here and other lizards such as chameleons should get prio. If i had to pick one it would be the stunning jeweled lacerta.
Can i still mention one member of Anguimorpha (Monitor relatives)? The scheltopusik would be a really cool species to include due to its eductional values.
Caecelians: Those guys are in essence legless salamanders trying to be worms and as such are basicly never above ground, so they would make for one hell of a wasted slot.
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In order to have enough monkeys we need the following clades (the example species are chosen due to their recognizability and relevance in captivity):
A baboon (Hamadryas)
A colobus (guareza)
A guenon (DeBrazza, Diana, or vervet )
A langur (Hanuman or Francois)
A second and/or third macaque (Barbary, Sulawesi crested, lion-tailed, or crab-eating)
We do not need any mangabeys, those could be made through mods.
For skinks and Lacertoids, I have four candidates. The black and white tegu is a well known large lizard that is . We can never have enough European species, especially when European reptiles get overshadowed by mammals and salamanders, which why the bright green European green lizard is a great rep for European lizards along with the previously mentioned sheltopusik. The shingleback skink may be a reskin of the blue tongue skink, but its pinecone like physique is attractive to many people. The Solomon Island/prehensile tailed skink is a good representative from Papua New Guinea (a good exhibit animal for a hypothetical island pack).
We do not need ceacelians.
Insectivores are a tough one bc not only are they diverse, but most if them are smaller than a prairie dog.
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Whack, i have never seen a stork NOT in an open habitat, but allways have seen hammerkop as free flying animals in tropical houses.
Ive seen white, black, painted, yellow billed, saddled, marabou and wooly necked stork most of them were part of an ungulate habitat but marabou, white and black storks ive also seen in their own dedicated habitats, again all open air.
I just realized that tegus are on that subgrouping, so, since my phone is acting up with editing, I'm just gonna quote my post and add that I consider the Argentina black-and-white tegu essential. Ironically, I've only seen them at pet expos, not zoos
Old world monkeys: Africa needs a baboon and a couple of smaller monkeys, probably a colobus and a guenon. Asia needs an Indian monkey and Golden Snub-Nosed Monkey. I also really want a red-shanked douc, and the lion tailed macaque seems good, too.
Asia: Needs an Indian monkey, and probably the golden snub-nosed, too. I would personally be very happy with a red-shanked douc as well.
- Indian Langur: India really needs a monkey, and I want a more unique one. I like the grey langur for this slot.
- Grey Langur: I would go with the Hanuman, iconic and kept in zoos
- Gee's Golden Langur: another choice but I don't want two golden monkeys from Asia
- Golden Snub Nosed Monkey: Endangered Chinese mountain monkey with striking features, very well-known within China for conservation
- Red Shanked Douc: Very endangered, beautiful, and colorful monkey. My favorite old world species. Not so common in zoos, but I think they would look fantastic
- Macaques: With the Japanese macaque, another could share a lot of animations. I would not be opposed.
- Lion Tailed Macaque: endangered, fairly popular, common in zoos Indian monkey. possible alternative to a langur
- Black Crested Macaque: meme animal
- Rhesus Macaque: they are everywhere, common in zoos, have become invasive in some places, a solid choice--but the similar barbary macaque would be better
- Other Langurs
- East Javan Langur: They have a cute golden morph, but I'm prioritizing an Indian langur. I like them, though. Could be an island pick?
- François' langur: another popular langur
- Dusky Leaf Monkey: they're cute
Gee's golden langur, François' Langur, Hanuman Grey Langur, East Javan Langur, Red Shanked Douc
Africa: Needs 2 smaller monkeys and a baboon as the bare minimum
- Mantled Guereza Colobus Monkey: Most popular tropical monkey for Africa with striking features and a cool cape
- Hamadryas Baboon: We need a baboon, and this one brings desert/Middle East rep
- Geunon/Relatives: We need at least one for sure, probably 2. I would pick De Brazza's for its unique coloration
- De Brazza's Geunon: striking colors and a popular guenon choice. Rainforest and wetlands
- Grivet/Vervet Monkey: common in zoos
- Patas Monkey: common in zoos, desert rep, runs on the ground
- L'hoest's Monkey: a choice for an African alpine monkey
- Diana/Roloway Monkey: two similar choices for a guenon
- Wolf's Guenon: uncommon in zoos, but striking
- Barbary Macaque: gives a bit of desert and Europe rep
- Gelada: a popular choice for an alpine baboon relative
- Mangabey: a distinct group that should have representation, but I don't view them as essential as the other groups above
- Golden-Bellied Mangabey
- Red Capped Mangabey
Roloway Monkey, L'hoest's Monkey, Barbary Macaque, Gelada, Golden-Bellied Mangabey, Red Capped Mangabey
True Lizards/Skinks: Caiman lizard and Argentine Tegu are my only wants here, I think. The former would make a good exhibit animal, and the Argentine tegu would be a really cool habitat animal that would be great for southern SA rep.
Insectivora: They are way too small for a habitat. None needed.
Caecelians: Please, no.
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Gotta say I love your consistently super detailed posts. High quality across the board.
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Pelicans:
There are 3 strong contenders for the pelican slot, the dalmatian (europe and asia), brown pelican (new world including carribeans and galapagos islands) and most importantly the great white pelican from europe africa and asia.
The great white pelican is the most common pelican both in the EAZA and the AZA, aswell as the largest pelican with the largest range, so id propaply should be the first choice, but the brown pelican equally massive range around coasts make them a great second contender, especally for a coastal pack.
In the perfect world, we would get both.
Storks:
Marabou and White Stork are a must for being iconic and extremly common, with the white stork being especally nice as its very flexible, being able to be part of african wetlands areas, european, random areas and even walk througs and as pretend wild animals. Meanwhile the marabou stork is a great addition to african hoof stock habitats to give them some special charm as a second large bird option besides the ostrich.
Iguana:
This is a trick question. As an exhibit animal? No, but i see a great oportunity optaining the rhinoceros iguana in an islands pack and a free update corressponding using the animations of the rhino iguana to bring our 2 exhibit iguanas to life as habitat animals. Otherwise i dont have any interest in more iguanas if the 2 in game allready are the most wasted potential animals in the game.
Gastropods:
No thank you, cool that we got one but aslong as they are wasting away in 4x4x4 boxes they are near useless. Id like more snail signs though
Konig just fyi that pelicaniforkes include ibises, herons, spoonbills and more, and iguanomorphs include chameleons, agamids, anoles and more. In case you want to add somePelicans:
There are 3 strong contenders for the pelican slot, the dalmatian (europe and asia), brown pelican (new world including carribeans and galapagos islands) and most importantly the great white pelican from europe africa and asia.
The great white pelican is the most common pelican both in the EAZA and the AZA, aswell as the largest pelican with the largest range, so id propaply should be the first choice, but the brown pelican equally massive range around coasts make them a great second contender, especally for a coastal pack.
In the perfect world, we would get both.
Storks:
Marabou and White Stork are a must for being iconic and extremly common, with the white stork being especally nice as its very flexible, being able to be part of african wetlands areas, european, random areas and even walk througs and as pretend wild animals. Meanwhile the marabou stork is a great addition to african hoof stock habitats to give them some special charm as a second large bird option besides the ostrich.
Iguana:
This is a trick question. As an exhibit animal? No, but i see a great oportunity optaining the rhinoceros iguana in an islands pack and a free update corressponding using the animations of the rhino iguana to bring our 2 exhibit iguanas to life as habitat animals. Otherwise i dont have any interest in more iguanas if the 2 in game allready are the most wasted potential animals in the game.
Gastropods:
No thank you, cool that we got one but aslong as they are wasting away in 4x4x4 boxes they are near useless. Id like more snail signs though
I've been learning so much from other people here and the wishlist. This community is pretty cool.
K final discussion time
old world monkeys
here's my list in order of how essential they are
1. a baboon preferably hamadryas
2. Mantled guereza
3. Barbary macaque
4. An Asian mainland monkey. (Somehow all the ones we got are from islands) such as a lio Tailed Macaque or langur species.
Those are the only ones that are needed imo. I'd consider the baboon essential though. If I had to pick one more probably a gelada.
true lizards and skinks
tegu, easy. Probably my second most wanted reptile for how it litterally fills every category.
insectivores
I feel like a hedgehog would be a really cool animal but definitley after we get our other spiky friends tge Porcupine and echidna. Also a tenrec would be cool but not essential. I don't think shrews would work as their to small. Mabey a tree shrew in exhibit.
caecelians
I don't want nightmares I'll leave it at that.
And now the taxonomic groups are done. Thank you so much for making this @yoav_r
old world monkeys
here's my list in order of how essential they are
1. a baboon preferably hamadryas
2. Mantled guereza
3. Barbary macaque
4. An Asian mainland monkey. (Somehow all the ones we got are from islands) such as a lio Tailed Macaque or langur species.
Those are the only ones that are needed imo. I'd consider the baboon essential though. If I had to pick one more probably a gelada.
true lizards and skinks
tegu, easy. Probably my second most wanted reptile for how it litterally fills every category.
insectivores
I feel like a hedgehog would be a really cool animal but definitley after we get our other spiky friends tge Porcupine and echidna. Also a tenrec would be cool but not essential. I don't think shrews would work as their to small. Mabey a tree shrew in exhibit.
caecelians
I don't want nightmares I'll leave it at that.
And now the taxonomic groups are done. Thank you so much for making this @yoav_r
Pelicans:
There are 3 strong contenders for the pelican slot, the dalmatian (europe and asia), brown pelican (new world including carribeans and galapagos islands) and most importantly the great white pelican from europe africa and asia.
The great white pelican is the most common pelican both in the EAZA and the AZA, aswell as the largest pelican with the largest range, so id propaply should be the first choice, but the brown pelican equally massive range around coasts make them a great second contender, especally for a coastal pack.
In the perfect world, we would get both.
Storks:
Marabou and White Stork are a must for being iconic and extremly common, with the white stork being especally nice as its very flexible, being able to be part of african wetlands areas, european, random areas and even walk througs and as pretend wild animals. Meanwhile the marabou stork is a great addition to african hoof stock habitats to give them some special charm as a second large bird option besides the ostrich.
Iguana:
This is a trick question. As an exhibit animal? No, but i see a great oportunity optaining the rhinoceros iguana in an islands pack and a free update corressponding using the animations of the rhino iguana to bring our 2 exhibit iguanas to life as habitat animals. Otherwise i dont have any interest in more iguanas if the 2 in game allready are the most wasted potential animals in the game.
Gastropods:
No thank you, cool that we got one but aslong as they are wasting away in 4x4x4 boxes they are near useless. Id like more snail signs though
Ibises and Spoonbills are pretty cool, but while i want them as habitat animals i didnt mention them because of the no aviary rule as ik that that take is controversial, but i also actually dont see them as that much of a priority. While i obviously wouldnt say no to a scarlet ibis a simple duck, goose, swan or pelican are all waaaaaay above them on my list for water birds and id be fine without them.
Herons are pretty much the same, but even less essential and if we get a heron before a stork thats just weird.
For more lizards, i only want habitat animals and i want the parsons chameleon. Largest chameleon, 70 cm in lenght they are a good bit larger then a meerkat and would add something very unique to the game.
Id also argue that bearded dragons propaply would be among the smallest things id see possible as an habitat animal, but that would leave even more eh questions about freeing the skink and gila monster, which i wouldnt be opposed to at all, but for now till the iguanas are freed im holding my enthusiasm.
Old World Monkeys... we need lots! 9 to be exact.
From Africa my picks would be the striking black-and-white colobus (my #1 pick, aka mantled guereza), collared mangabey, diana monkey, debrazza's monkey, vervet monkey, and patas monkey.
From Asia I nominate the lion-tailed macaque (my #1 Asian pick), the gray langur, and the weird-looking dusky (spectacled) leaf monkey.
These 9 monkeys are currently kept in zoos, represent a variety of genera, and most have pleasing colors. A baboon species should probably be added but... I really dislike them so none for me, please.
Hedgehogs & friends... Not essential but I wouldn't mind either a European or African Pygmy Hedgehog, both of which do well in zoos.
Lizards and caecelians... don't know enough about them to choose wisely
From Africa my picks would be the striking black-and-white colobus (my #1 pick, aka mantled guereza), collared mangabey, diana monkey, debrazza's monkey, vervet monkey, and patas monkey.
From Asia I nominate the lion-tailed macaque (my #1 Asian pick), the gray langur, and the weird-looking dusky (spectacled) leaf monkey.
These 9 monkeys are currently kept in zoos, represent a variety of genera, and most have pleasing colors. A baboon species should probably be added but... I really dislike them so none for me, please.
Hedgehogs & friends... Not essential but I wouldn't mind either a European or African Pygmy Hedgehog, both of which do well in zoos.
Lizards and caecelians... don't know enough about them to choose wisely