Wow that sounds so simple, and so easy.
Any word on fixing grenade spam and near impossible to kill NPC's in FPS missions, regardless of level?
- Thread starter Malakie
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This one.Maybe you should try Animal Crossing?
Look, the shooter mechanism is pretty basic but it does, it seems, require a different approach.
Mostly all I see is people offering advice as to how they’ve adapted to it, not mocking. If someone refuses to listen, insisting that they know it’s just broken because they’ve played XYZ game and still struggle without G5, then they deserve to be mocked. Although most members still just offer advice.
Do typical FPS tactics work? In my opinion, no. Are there some basic things that keep you safe in pretty much all circumstances? Absolutely. Are there also situations where, if you well and truly screw the pooch, you're going to be dead with barely any recourse? Also definitely true. These have all been discussed in the thread so far.
But last night I walked into a high-security base with all the bells and whistles; goliaths, turrets and minimum-sergeant-rank(? silver with three chevrons and 2-3 bars of shield) with a G2 Maverick, G1 Plasma Rifle and G3 Plasma Pistol, stole Level 3 credentials, closed in to and shot my way through the last 20m to disable settlement alarms... then working my way out was just a point and click adventure where the only action is "kill guard with gun".
That's not because I'm good at FPS, rather, I've died enough to learn what works and what doesn't in Odyssey. And mentioned, the mechanics here don't work like a regular FPS. Once you work them out, the only thing you'll die to is recklessness.
Ok, i haven't read all of it, but it is actually proven they have unlimited stuff?
I mean, I found meself being cornered on a roof too far by a squad of grunts.
They did used a lot of grenades, but after all: they were 4, i assume they wore Dominators, which means they had like 12 frags and 12 emps
I definitely did not see 24 grenades thrown at me, but after like the fifth grenade i was like Oh! Come on, i'm trying to make a living here
I mean, I found meself being cornered on a roof too far by a squad of grunts.
They did used a lot of grenades, but after all: they were 4, i assume they wore Dominators, which means they had like 12 frags and 12 emps
I definitely did not see 24 grenades thrown at me, but after like the fifth grenade i was like Oh! Come on, i'm trying to make a living here
Odyssey is about as much a first person shooter as Fallout3 ... it's not. You need a tactic, and if you set off the alarm, you did something wrong. Retreat and try again (fly to orbit and land again)
Did FDev promote Odyssey as an FPS?
I didn’t pay much attention before the Alpha started - they pretty much sold me the pre-order by playing Bowie- but I always thought of it as a natural extension of existing gameplay rather than a particular focus on foot combat.
Shame it doesn't extend the gameplay, just bolts on some entirely decoupled game loops
OT, but...
I'm surprised people thought that existing gameplay would be extended in the first place.
A common counter to my cynicism about them pushing odyssey before fixing the base game was that Odyssey would actuslly fix the base game.
Well, it's here... Odyssey has done nothing for space activities, all the old bugs (and some ones which were previously fixed, and are now back) still exist, and activities in Odyssey couldn't be any more segregated.
Basically, it's everything i expected from a standalone, optional DLC in this context, and why I was opposed to it. It's activities are segregated, it doesn't touch the original game content and just places more pressure on an already- fragile foundations.
A common counter to my cynicism about them pushing odyssey before fixing the base game was that Odyssey would actuslly fix the base game.
- on foot would enrich space missions
- code refresh would fix all the bugs
- it would introduce more choice
Well, it's here... Odyssey has done nothing for space activities, all the old bugs (and some ones which were previously fixed, and are now back) still exist, and activities in Odyssey couldn't be any more segregated.
Basically, it's everything i expected from a standalone, optional DLC in this context, and why I was opposed to it. It's activities are segregated, it doesn't touch the original game content and just places more pressure on an already- fragile foundations.
Some people think so, and if you look at CZ gameplay you could almost mean it.
Some Thargoids are, but I am too.
Another thing too is that you're alone, perhaps on a roof top, while that squad might be running around and picking up ammo and grenades from the boxes around the base while you're busy hammering a part of the squad. So even if they might see to have some unlimited resource, that could be explained by them having better access to refills.
With that said, you're right, even when there's been a lot of grenades thrown at me, it was probably less than 10 in total, even when they're gangs of 10.
It also seems like not all the commandos throw grenades, for instance the "sharp shooters" use different techniques, blast you with a plasma (Executioner) from distance and if they lose shield they hide. Don't think I've seen them throw grenades. shrugs
I'm coming to the conclusion that people are so defensive of what is, at it's best, mediocre combat, simply because, it is, arguably, the best thing Odyssey has to offer.
I can actually agree with this. The combat is the best and most functional aspect of Odyssey.
Plenty of us who are actually good at the combat still dislike it.
*Strawman: "I am good at combat, therefore combat is good." Is not an argument.
I've yet to see anyone make a decent case as to why the combat is good. I would like to stress that I don't have to agree with your argument for it to be a good argument.
I really want to know what the strong case is for the combat.
One of the new issues that I think plagues the core of the combat is that is balanced around the combat Zones. Even though that is one out of at least three areas where combat takes place.
Combat occurs in three places(primarily):
Combat Zones, Settlements(assaults or Scavengers), and POIs
I find that Combat Zones tend NOT to have the same level of frustration as the other two. You have allies. Multiple shooters are firing on the same targets. You can use kinetic to complement an allies laser, or vice versa.
However, when it is just the solo commander versus multiple NPCs, in one of the other two arenas. It turns towards frustration or annoyance.
I am not saying as someone who tried it once and rage quit. For the past week, I have been assaulting settlements solo. I have had a 95% success rate.
I know the strategy. I know the tactics. I'm not having a whole lot of fun.
I am doing this to understand what it takes to grind a gun to it's full capacity.
My preference would be for the players and npcs to have less health and shields. Making combat tighter and more focused. Also reducing the grind as well. This would make combat more skill based than gear based.
I detail my thoughts here.
*I understand that this is a strawman, that's why I label it as such.
I can actually agree with this. The combat is the best and most functional aspect of Odyssey.
Plenty of us who are actually good at the combat still dislike it.
*Strawman: "I am good at combat, therefore combat is good." Is not an argument.
I've yet to see anyone make a decent case as to why the combat is good. I would like to stress that I don't have to agree with your argument for it to be a good argument.
I really want to know what the strong case is for the combat.
One of the new issues that I think plagues the core of the combat is that is balanced around the combat Zones. Even though that is one out of at least three areas where combat takes place.
Combat occurs in three places(primarily):
Combat Zones, Settlements(assaults or Scavengers), and POIs
I find that Combat Zones tend NOT to have the same level of frustration as the other two. You have allies. Multiple shooters are firing on the same targets. You can use kinetic to complement an allies laser, or vice versa.
However, when it is just the solo commander versus multiple NPCs, in one of the other two arenas. It turns towards frustration or annoyance.
I am not saying as someone who tried it once and rage quit. For the past week, I have been assaulting settlements solo. I have had a 95% success rate.
I know the strategy. I know the tactics. I'm not having a whole lot of fun.
I am doing this to understand what it takes to grind a gun to it's full capacity.
My preference would be for the players and npcs to have less health and shields. Making combat tighter and more focused. Also reducing the grind as well. This would make combat more skill based than gear based.
I detail my thoughts here.
*I understand that this is a strawman, that's why I label it as such.
This is great... It's basically what I've been screaming at these guys.. much more eloquently--thank you.
I'm kinda reminded of the early hitman games. If you get made before you're ready to go loud then you're in deep trouble, and the guards never do the usual "hmm, must have been the wind" if they spot something suspicious, but there are ways to avoid that suspicion.
It's not a call of duty shooter and if you try to play it as one you will die.
If you try to assault a settlement using the same combat tactics that you'd apply to a CZ, you will die.
Has anyone actually said that? I don't think they have. What people have responded to, in this thread and elsewhere, is people saying that the combat is too difficult and therefore is not fun. Alternatively, they have said that in order to succeed in combat they have to do things they find not to be fun, which is a personal opinion. In the case of the latter, personal playstyle is sufficient to explain it, IMO. For instance, I have no idea how someone can play a Battlefield game as a sniper humping a hill 400m away from the nearest flag and get 4 kills per round. Clearly, however, some people enjoy it enough to spend their time doing it.
The responses to these posts have largely been suggestions at how to improve at on-foot combat. "Shoot better" is important here - one of the things I enjoy about combat is getting better with the guns - the Executioner and Tormentor are difficult weapons to use due to the very slow round velocity; learning to use them more effectively is fun for me. This involves learning how the NPCs move (and when they stop moving.) As others have noted, if you just charge in, don't use the environment and expect to straight up murder 20 NPCs, you're going to have a bad time. I enjoy this, and think it is actually rather consistent with combat in Beyond - it's very easy to forget that not everyone has been playing Elite since 2014 and they don't have a fleet of ships that basically have a "delete" key for NPCs.
You make a comment later about your strawman reference, but I'm not sure how to interpret it, to be honest. If you're introducing it into the argument in order to get someone to defend the proposition, you're asking people to defend a proposition they haven't actually made. If you introduced it into the argument because you really believe people have said that, and think it's an illogical argument, then it doesn't take your argument further -- people haven't said it.
One of the problems with this -- and perhaps why no one has made that case; the Elite community has its fair share of
I'm quite happy to have that discussion. My opinions on the combat in Odyssey are mixed. Appalling performance making effective aiming and leading more difficult notwithstanding, it does some things well and some things could be improved. For instance, reload times are painfully slow, and even a G1 Executioner is pretty OP (to the extent that I've not even bothered chasing an upgrade). TTK is rather high, but that works both ways - I think it's intentional so that
I read your post before (and disagreed with some aspects of it at the time but didn't respond). With regard to CZs as the centre of balance, I don't agree: Scavengers are frankly squishy. Conflict zones can (and arguably should) be much more difficult. It's much easier to manage how the NPCs engage you in a massacre mission than it is in a CZ. The Vulture drops can be brutal - one minute you're capping a flag and reloading, the next you're fighting off 6 soldiers on your own. I'd also point out that there may be design and use decisions you haven't considered. I did my first few raids and CZs to understand their mechanics; I only really do them now in a targeted manner to support minor factions. In that respect, even a trivially easy mission to massacre scavengers is interesting and fun because it furthers my goals in other ways. Maybe try a speedrun? My current record is less than two minutes in combat to kill 7 scavs. You've been grinding - you said so yourself.
There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio.
I think the solution to the "problem" of combat in Odyssey is much more likely to be found in how the game communicates risk to the player and how that advertisement actually correlates with real risk in the game. As I have said elsewhere, no one in their right mind (or without a less than wholesome intent) would recommend a starter player in a Sidewinder head to a pirate activity (threat 7) USS. Those are labelled honestly.
* This is a joke; I am one.
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and the thing is - if you sneak up on someone, even a guard, the TTK is near zero if you're packing an intimidator. Or even the overload mode on the power transfer tool.
The thing is, I don't think players would be very happy if the NPCs were in the habit of stealthing up behind them and emptying a shotgun into their back.
The vast majority of the time, unless you're going out in nothing but your remlok suit, you're the most powerful and dangerous individual on the battlefield - but it's one of you versus twenty of them and if you try to just take them all at once like the doomslayer you'll lose.
Likewise, I imagine there will be a lot of salt when we start seeing the first on-foot ganks since I expect the TTK there will be very short.
It's kinda like the main game really - unless you're still in a sidey you'll frequently find that with even moderate engineering you're the toughest thing around, but pulling the attention of five or six ships at once will still give you a bad time. It's why people are frequently caught off guard when they face another player that's rocking just as much gear as they are.
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This thread is a replica from the ones pre EDO.
I was interdicted in my non-engineered trading Anaconda and i got killed by deadly NPC Pirates.
Since ED has no traditional difficulty levels, it has to balance things in ways that for some people EDO will be too hard and for others it will be too easy. And it will always be like that.
For the first category i can only say: spend some time and search for G3 suits and some weapons. Things will change dramatically
For the latter category, i can only say - try to do it in G1 suits/weapons or even in the Flight Suit
I was interdicted in my non-engineered trading Anaconda and i got killed by deadly NPC Pirates.
Since ED has no traditional difficulty levels, it has to balance things in ways that for some people EDO will be too hard and for others it will be too easy. And it will always be like that.
For the first category i can only say: spend some time and search for G3 suits and some weapons. Things will change dramatically
For the latter category, i can only say - try to do it in G1 suits/weapons or even in the Flight Suit
Yeah... if I understand right there is, essentially, a suppressor upgrade for weapons. I'm looking forward to seeing if that can be employed with the plasma pistol for long- range stealth takedowns.... my base-shutdown-fu is getting stronger, and usually only results in the death of any workers in the power centre and two or three guards patrolling nearby, when i have to resort to weapon use.
But yeah, TTK goes up a lot once things hit the fan. Specifically, the weapons seem balanced around downing shields, and then the requirement to either reload or switch weapons is the break chance for the other party.
Once again though, like Northpin says, if you're prepared for combat, you're good. If you're not, you're hosed.
Atm i'm using a G5 Maverick with Extra Battery, a G3 Executioner with Improved Magazine size (5 shots instead of 3) and a G5 Tormentor (no mods at all)
Planning to get Audio Masking, Stowed Reloading and maybe Stability as the 4th mod for Executioner - not decided yet about the 4th one
And for Tormentor - Silencer, Stowed Reloading, Stability, then again for the 4th either Extended range or maybe Hip Fire accuracy
But for me the Combat is the least issue. My main EDO issue at the moment is the 1000 material cap (for Assets mainly)
Why?
For example, last evening i was doing a download data from an abandoned settlement - so i had things powered up, got the data and whatever loot was in the settlement. Then i initiated the power off to remove the Power Regulator and in the meantime i headed outside Power Centre to sort out what i'm keeping and what i'm discarding (i was at 995/1000 capacity with 30 more assets in the suit)
They guess what, while trying to sort out inventory, i got two drops not one. One right on top of me and one like 80-100m away.
I abandoned the srv, jumped on the roof - just in time since my srv got blown up - and then i had a 10 vs 1 encounter in a powered down settlement, with no energy crates locations memorized and an already half drained suit battery.
Eventually i got them all, ambushing 2 at a time at choke points - like stairs, or sniping them at a distance.
Rather funny, but time consuming - i usually mow them down in the Srv.
Yeah, I'm still in G1-3 for most of my gear coz EDO competes with satisfactory and horizon zero dawn for my time right now.
I cbf with srv, that means piloting XD apex is great like that... stack some missions 400k ls away, jump on board, go do housework or something. But yeah, with G5 upgrades needing ~130 items, when g5 ship mods need way less, its a bit nuts.
I'm going to take Factabulous' approach soon and just trade up to the most valuable in each category and just trade what i need from that.
i just finished a factory producing enough electromagnetic control rods to create uranium fuel rods from the entire maps uranium resource nodes, so powrr won't be a concern as i approach turbo motor automation...
I was in a CZ the other day with a friend in a ship doing "close air support" for the laughs. They were the most dangerous thing for me in that battlefield by a wide margin. One misplaced rocket and you're in that dropship again, spawning in. It was really funny.