Attacked by another player entering a starport

[kofeyh]

No let's not, my comment is specifically about the nature of Open.

I know; but people will be people. It's up to the developer to define the sandpit we're in. We don't get to define what other's do, in Open; it has always been what you make of it, and how you respond to the various outcomes. Sometimes it rains. You can shout at the rain. Complain the rain is there. That it's bad rain. But rain it will, regardless. So you can either duck indoors for a bit, or grab an umbrella and go out in it anyway.

Choices exist, even if they aren't perfect. I've never once said, what you've suggested I've said, though; that's a bit of projection.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

If you dont want to get attacked by others players you have to stop playing in open mode its what open mode is for

This is the comment I initially responded to.

I know; but people will be people. It's up to the developer to define the sandpit we're in. We don't get to define what other's do, in Open; it has always been what you make of it, and how you respond to the various outcomes. Sometimes it rains. You can shout at the rain. Complain the rain is there. That it's bad rain. But rain it will, regardless. So you can either duck indoors for a bit, or grab an umbrella and go out in it anyway.

Choices exist, even if they aren't perfect. I've never once said, what you've suggested I've said, though; that's a bit of projection.

So you might not have said that, but the discussion we're having was based on my initial response to someone who did.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I won't argue whether ED is an MMO, but blocking absolutely does have a place in ED as far as I'm concerned.

I have a clear idea of the kind of game I want to experience. I want immersion; I want to feel like a space pilot in a realistic setting. If anyone else is being an idiot by shooting without reason, ramming, spouting obscenities in chat, blocking slot, blocking pad, etc., then I don't want to instance with them. This is not primarily about safety as some would suggest; it's about playing only with other proper space pilots. Blocking silly people increases my enjoyment of the game.

Having said that, I don't use the feature a lot as it's easier to just play in Mobius. I also refrain from blocking if there's any chance that the other player's actions have a proper in-game reason. There's only one player on my block list at the moment.

The problem with blocking is that you just block your opposition in any objective control conflict like BGS/PP wars. Its too easy to abuse.

It has no place in an open world PVP environment. You cannot be "griefed" or abused in a game where no rules exist for PvP gameplay, that's why blocking others should not be an option.

 

[Old Duck]

It's my understanding that blocking him only turns off the comms to the cmdr you block.
You can and will see him again.
I think...

This is the way it works on PS4 (recently confirmed by Frontier staff). Not sure about PC.

 

[Brrokk]

The problem with blocking is that you just block your opposition in any objective control conflict like BGS/PP wars. Its too easy to abuse.

It has no place in an open world PVP environment. You cannot be "griefed" or abused in a game where no rules exist for PvP gameplay, that's why blocking others should not be an option.

You're not the only one who can use the word "should". I say blocking should be an option. It turns out that FD agree with me, so I make use of it and other game features to get the game experience I want.

Maybe that means Open mode isn't actually "an open world PVP environment".

 

[Vorxian]

Aye this does crop up a lot, and the reason people do it is because it provokes a candid response, usually to the gratification of the perp.

Ultimately these kinds of debates move towards the fact that it is not against any griefing policy or anything, but is widely acclaimed to be against the spirit of the game due to it being a shirk of game mechanics, and presents the victim little to no chance to counter without getting flagged themselves or blown up.

 

[LeKeno]

Great summary.

One thing that's missing is the recent interest in smart rounds. Apparently stray shots don't trigger a response from the station as long as you have a target. This also means that shooting into the station is risk free.

I've yet to try and confirm but it seems legit.

There's info and misinfo in this thread about the rules around stations.

Let me try to spell some stuff out. You have to take into account system, wanted and Powerplay ('PP') status.

Any firing inside the mailslot is death, under any circumstances. (Except that SLF were allowed, at least in Anarchies, but I think that was patched.)

Firing weapons (without hitting) outside the mailslot but inside the no fire zone ('NFZ') is just a fine.

You will be fined, but will incur no bounty, hence will NOT be attacked by the station/cops for:

- Firing weapons inside NFZ, if nothing is hit

- Shooting/killing a Wanted NPC or Cmdr, inside NFZ

- If ('if') you are pledged to the PP controlling faction of the system, shooting/killing any PP Hostile, even if Clean. (Example: I am pledged to Hudson. If I saw an Alliance Cmdr, clean, in Nanomam, Hudson's HQ, I could blow him up right in front of station.)

- Shooting/killing anyone outside mailslot in Anarchy

EXCEPT that you WILL be attacked by station/cops if:

- Any of your fire whatever touches the station itself or any of its NPC faction members. Frags and missiles can do this half a galaxy away. Anarchy no exception. (Example: Cmdr attempts to kill Cmdr in Anarchy. Blocks mailslot and fires volley of four frags away from station. One slug touches shield of NPC T-6 aligned to station faction. Station instantly becomes hostile...)

- As above but with any Clean in policed space. Basically stray fire is a no-no.

Putting the above together, various surprise tactics are available:

- Pledging to the PP controlling faction offers opportunist attack potential against PP pledgers. Personally as an (almost) three year Fed I think a longer cooldown should be imposed on faction surfing but it's there for now

- Using long range weapons from outside NFZ is a key attack tactic.

- Above combined with a clean buddy of attacker is classic trap: clean buddy shoots, deliberately missing, while long range attacker hits; victim thinks clean buddy is aggressor, shoots him and dies

- Above combined with Eagle ram also very potent: victim increases speed above 100 mps in response to aggression, rammed by 1% Eagle leaving mailslot, station kills as murderer

Weapons such as RC torps and force shell cannons can impede and/or panic a docking ship. Large ships can legally cause considerable damage with <100 mps rams. Ships can be pushed around by rams and force shell. Ships can be bumped from beneath speed limit to above it just before being Eagle rammed.

By reason of all the above the only truly safe response to aggression near a station is to do nothing except slowly to dock as normal, well beneath 100 mps. Whether this is achievable will depend upon strength of ship defences and ability to get past 'bumper cars'.

 

[besieger]

Aye this does crop up a lot, and the reason people do it is because it provokes a candid response, usually to the gratification of the perp.

Ultimately these kinds of debates move towards the fact that it is not against any griefing policy or anything, but is widely acclaimed to be against the spirit of the game due to it being a shirk of game mechanics, and presents the victim little to no chance to counter without getting flagged themselves or blown up.

Equipping a shield or some decent defences usually works...

 

[Macros Black]

Depending on one's viewpoint:

Open:1 Destructee:0
Or
Open:-1 Destructee:0

 

[Leadfoot]

The problem with blocking is that you just block your opposition in any objective control conflict like BGS/PP wars. Its too easy to abuse.

It has no place in an open world PVP environment. You cannot be "griefed" or abused in a game where no rules exist for PvP gameplay, that's why blocking others should not be an option.

You're not the only one who can use the word "should". I say blocking should be an option. It turns out that FD agree with me, so I make use of it and other game features to get the game experience I want.

Maybe that means Open mode isn't actually "an open world PVP environment".

This ^^^

Currently on a trip to the Crab Nebula but when I'm in town I've been doing PP to some extent. I understand the implication of that PP activity: you can help by attacking members of rival factions, and you must expect to be attacked by members of those aforementioned rival factions.

THAT part I understand and accept. I expect it. If attacked and killed by a member of a rival faction, well then, good on him/her/it, and look sadly at the re-buy screen and hit "OK."

However, in situations where someone just wants to blast every player they can for the LUZ, sorry, but they are blocked. If someone wants to kick over my sandcastle I simply won't play with them. Blocking gives me the option of not letting them play with me.

Algomatic, if you don't believe in using the block feature, don't use it. There was such a screaming for a blocking feature that FD decided to add it in. I don't abuse it - I know the difference between griefing and PvP. There are only 3 or 4 players on my block list. I'm not going to cry over it. Neither are the blocked players. They're still free to roam around in open and grief anyone they want...except me.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

This ^^^

Currently on a trip to the Crab Nebula but when I'm in town I've been doing PP to some extent. I understand the implication of that PP activity: you can help by attacking members of rival factions, and you must expect to be attacked by members of those aforementioned rival factions.

THAT part I understand and accept. I expect it. If attacked and killed by a member of a rival faction, well then, good on him/her/it, and look sadly at the re-buy screen and hit "OK."

However, in situations where someone just wants to blast every player they can for the LUZ, sorry, but they are blocked. If someone wants to kick over my sandcastle I simply won't play with them. Blocking gives me the option of not letting them play with me.

Algomatic, if you don't believe in using the block feature, don't use it. There was such a screaming for a blocking feature that FD decided to add it in. I don't abuse it - I know the difference between griefing and PvP. There are only 3 or 4 players on my block list. I'm not going to cry over it. Neither are the blocked players. They're still free to roam around in open and grief anyone they want...except me.

A PF vs PF war.
I know that there are 10 ultra PvP players on the opposite side. I look for them on the "add friend" menu option, find them and block every single one.
Next I start mowing their traders/weaker/newer players, while the real oppositon is blocked from instancing with me.

If you dont see a problem here you are trolling me.

 

[Sylow]

Hmm. Another advertisement thread for Möbius.

.

I can only advice it. It's really a different game. I recently did a little flying in open again, just out of curiosity. (Location: Shinrarta Dezhra. ) The patterns are exactly the same as when i tried it two years or so ago. When i cruised around in my Chieftain, people avoided me. I turned to them to just see who they were and they waked or disconnected. (Note that the only "trading" ship i saw were Cutters, which can very well also be combat ships. ) I repeated the same in my Asp, and i felt the very same, combat ships turned my way and tried to get behind me, so i had to wake out.
.
On the positive: it saved my keyboard. I never had to type a single word, nobody spoke. It seemed like all were way too busy trying to hunt people or avoiding being killed. Then i switched back to Möbius, where people greet other players flying by and sometimes even have a chat. Quite terrifying, i guess...
.

 

[Old Duck]

Hmm. Another advertisement thread for Möbius.

Be quiet you horrible sweater-wearing crying carebear coward BGS cheater, you're ruining the game. It's called Elite DANGEROUS after all. Go watch the Mr. Rogers movie and leave Elite DANGEROUS for the real men.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

Equipping a shield or some decent defences usually works...

Yeah, during the latest CG I'm still pirating shieldless T6, T7 & T10 Cmdr's.

I have to rescue them when NPC pirates drop into the instance and start blasting them.

 

[Leadfoot]

A PF vs PF war.
I know that there are 10 ultra PvP players on the opposite side. I look for them on the "add friend" menu option, find them and block every single one.
Next I start mowing their traders/weaker/newer players, while the real oppositon is blocked from instancing with me.

If you dont see a problem here you are trolling me.

And that's what I'd consider to be improper use of the block feature (BUT only by "my" definition of proper use of the feature). Which I don't do. And yes, it would be a problem, but you play your way and I play mine.

Then, again, those aforementioned weaker players have the option to block you, don't they? Eventually, everyone is either in Mobius or in open but in a solo-ish environment.

 

[Andovar]

Equipping a shield or some decent defences usually works...

i made that mistake once years ago. filling up my T6 to the brim with PP vouchers.
surprising how fast a shieldless ship can pop (and that was pre-engineering)

I'm not one to recommend going solo or mobius, but if you want to run shieldless, then yeah, you should go solo or mobius.

 

[Old Duck]

Eventually, everyone is either in Mobius or in open but in a solo-ish environment.

Or they quite the game out of frustration. I have to think most new players leaving the starter system for Eravate for the first time don't know about Mobius, and they may not even realize that they are being victimized by overpowered sociopathic players. They might just think the game is impossibly difficult, and so they quit. On PS4 there's an interesting stat that shows only 50% of people who buy the game get out of their Sidewinder (as in, get a better ship). That's telling...

 

[ALGOMATIC]

And that's what I'd consider to be improper use of the block feature (BUT only by "my" definition of proper use of the feature). Which I don't do. And yes, it would be a problem, but you play your way and I play mine.

Then, again, those aforementioned weaker players have the option to block you, don't they? Eventually, everyone is either in Mobius or in open but in a solo-ish environment.

If you chose to be engaged in a BGS/PP war you volunteered to interact with your enemies, blocking has no place here, but unfortunately it is availble to all and will be abused when things dont go well for one side or another.

 

[Leadfoot]

Eventually, everyone is either in Mobius or in open but in a solo-ish environment.

Or they quite the game out of frustration. I have to think most new players leaving the starter system for Eravate for the first time don't know about Mobius, and they may not even realize that they are being victimized by overpowered sociopathic players. They might just think the game is impossibly difficult, and so they quit. On PS4 there's an interesting stat that shows only 50% of people who buy the game get out of their Sidewinder (as in, get a better ship). That's telling...

Yes, and that was my point. Player killers encourage others to simply quit and recommend other gamers to avoid this "toxic environment" at all costs because of the crazy killers out there, you'll never be able to progress because PK's never give you a chance to get anywhere.

I don't consider that a positive thing.

I looked at EVE and chose NOT to get it. No "solo mode" with that game. Get into the wrong areas and you end up in that "bad neighborhood" with a bunch of gang members asking "What you doing here, kid? You got permission to be here?" etc. I'm sure the entire game isn't like that but it's been around for so many years that entire player factions have guards at entry points (those jump gates) are guarded, making exploration a risky venture. I may be all wrong about EVE, as I know there's probably a bunch of players here from that game, but it was one of the factors that made me shy away from it. ED is the first (and so far, only) MMO I've ever been on, so my experiences are limited to what I see here.

If you chose to be engaged in a BGS/PP war you volunteered to interact with your enemies, blocking has no place here, but unfortunately it is availble to all and will be abused when things dont go well for one side or another.

And your point is well-taken but one should point out that you've suggested taking advantage of a blocking feature to give yourself an unfair advantage by ensuring your superiority in a combat situation. I should also point out that if you block player 1+2 and they're in a wing with player 3 (who isn't blocked), player 1+2+3 will show up in your instance (if I recall correctly).

 

[jasonbarron]

Or they quite the game out of frustration. I have to think most new players leaving the starter system for Eravate for the first time don't know about Mobius, and they may not even realize that they are being victimized by overpowered sociopathic players. They might just think the game is impossibly difficult, and so they quit. On PS4 there's an interesting stat that shows only 50% of people who buy the game get out of their Sidewinder (as in, get a better ship). That's telling...

I think it's telling, but not for the same reason as you probably.

Personally, I think the starter system, and maybe even some neighboring systems should be permit locked to give the noobs a fighting chance.