Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

DukeIronHand · Mar 18, 2018

Powderpanic said:
Wonderfully proving my point, thanks

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

Play your own game. Stay out of mine. Oh. Your welcome.

WorldsGreatestForumDad · Mar 18, 2018

Old Duck · Mar 18, 2018

Anything a bot can do is a mindless grind. I'm assuming they are using basic scripts, not the AlphaGo / DeepMind AI. If ED can replace automatable grinding with gameplay that requires critical thinking, then most of these bots will go away.

Cosmos · Mar 18, 2018

I was considering making a bot ages ago. I decided against it but creating one for ED would have been incredibly simple and completely undetectable.

Thing is since were at the stage when its an attractive idea to let the game play itself I realised it might be time to play other games. [haha]

Stigbob · Mar 18, 2018

sollisb said:
Seriously; How can having and running two or more accounts be considered an exploit, when! The Game Developers actually marketted it, to gain sales! Just because 'you' feel you can sling the 'exploit' title around doesn't meanit's an 'actual' exploit. You have an opinion, no-one has to respect it.

It's cheating if you use it for an extra pip to gain an artificial edge and nothing else, if you let your little brother play with you/have an alternate CMDR then it's not cheating. Having it isn't the problem it's what you do with it that matters.

No better than clogging, cash-exploits or botting.

Having said that it's also comical in a tragic way and gives money to FDEV so no real biggy.

d8veh · Mar 18, 2018

Wouldn't it be more fun to park shieldless Sidewinders outside the station on their approach path. When they crashed into you and got a bounty, how are they going to get in the station? That would be fun to watch.

bitstorm · Mar 18, 2018

Here's another stupid suggestion...

How about Frontier build their own bots and let them run in game?

Voila a working and realistic economy! that can be affected by players, blockaded and so forth.

Agony_Aunt · Mar 18, 2018

bitstorm said:
Here's another stupid suggestion...

How about Frontier build their own bots and let them run in game?

Voila a working and realistic economy! that can be affected by players, blockaded and so forth.

Umm... they are called NPCs.

Stigbob · Mar 18, 2018

The Librarian said:
To any and all who are in the "so what if they are using bots" camp, please have a read of the relevant section of the EULA (https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/) that every single one of us has agreed to in purchasing this game (my emphasis):-

3. Licence Restrictions
You are not permitted:
(a) to load the Game on to a network server for the purposes of distribution to one or more other device(s) on that network or to effect such distribution;
(b) except as expressly permitted by this EULA and to the extent expressly permitted by applicable law, to rent, lease, sub-license, loan, exploit for profit or gain, copy, modify, adapt, merge, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or create derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Game or use, reproduce, distribute, translate, broadcast, publicly perform, store in a retrieval system or otherwise deal in the Game or any part thereof in any way;
(c) use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game;

Nobody should ever read the EULA.

raeat · Mar 18, 2018

To those asking "why bot in open?" here is my response:

Botting in open lets the target players know that you are running bots that can do much, much more work than the players can account for. You do it in open to break the will of the target.
Remember 90% of the game is half mental.

'Nuff said?

WorldsGreatestForumDad · Mar 18, 2018

raeat said:
To those asking "why bot in open?" here is my response:

Botting in open lets the target players know that you are running bots that can do much, much more work than the players can account for. You do it in open to break the will of the target.
Remember 90% of the game is half mental.

'Nuff said?

Boy if they did that and still lost. Id be awfully upset.

Martin Schou · Mar 18, 2018

Deareim said:
Or remove PP.

And the BGS while you're at it, because that bit is also affected. And since they're trade bots, they're likely having an influence on trade CGs as well, so they also need to be removed.

But sure - let's wipe out the collective efforts of several thousand players across almost four years, because someone on the forums doesn't like that feature.

Alternatively youcould grow up and act like an adult.

Tigir · Mar 18, 2018

The Librarian said:
To any and all who are in the "so what if they are using bots" camp, please have a read of the relevant section of the EULA (https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/) that every single one of us has agreed to in purchasing this game (my emphasis):-

3. Licence Restrictions
You are not permitted:
(a) to load the Game on to a network server for the purposes of distribution to one or more other device(s) on that network or to effect such distribution;
(b) except as expressly permitted by this EULA and to the extent expressly permitted by applicable law, to rent, lease, sub-license, loan, exploit for profit or gain, copy, modify, adapt, merge, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or create derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Game or use, reproduce, distribute, translate, broadcast, publicly perform, store in a retrieval system or otherwise deal in the Game or any part thereof in any way;
(c) use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game;

It's the "designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game" that makes it a real sticky point. Frontier has repeatedly stated that players are free to play the game how they want to.
To me this particular section of the EULA means that stated automation software is bad only if it directly manipulates game code and allows interaction with the game that would not be possible if the player was directly pressing the controls.
There is automation software that is legitimately used by disabled players just to be able to participate in the game.

The real issue here seems to be with the powerplay aspect of the game and player factions, perhaps it would be better to call out and ask for powerplay and/or player factions to be removed from the game.

master_xean · Mar 18, 2018

The Librarian said:
To any and all who are in the "so what if they are using bots" camp, please have a read of the relevant section of the EULA (https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/) that every single one of us has agreed to in purchasing this game (my emphasis):-

3. Licence Restrictions
You are not permitted:
(a) to load the Game on to a network server for the purposes of distribution to one or more other device(s) on that network or to effect such distribution;
(b) except as expressly permitted by this EULA and to the extent expressly permitted by applicable law, to rent, lease, sub-license, loan, exploit for profit or gain, copy, modify, adapt, merge, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or create derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Game or use, reproduce, distribute, translate, broadcast, publicly perform, store in a retrieval system or otherwise deal in the Game or any part thereof in any way;
(c) use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game;

See this is what I mean about losing perspective.

Crank Larson · Mar 18, 2018

master_xean said:
Isn't the broader point that someone who is willing 2 spend many many hours just spying and stalking on other people in the video game has lost perspective?

Still with your stalking obsession? :O

The Librarian · Mar 18, 2018

master_xean said:
See this is what I mean about losing perspective.

And what perspective would that be? That cheating in a competitive scenario should be punished?

Silly me.

Martin Schou · Mar 18, 2018

master_xean said:
Isn't the broader point that someone who is willing 2 spend many many hours just spying and stalking on other people in the video game has lost perspective?

That's certainly one point of view, but so what? I don't have a dog, I don't bother cleaning my apartment, I don't have tv-shows to watch or books to read. The news is appalling as are the papers, the game I like is Elite: Dangerous and toying around with data analysis and I hate jogging.

Here's another point of view - why is someone commenting on a forum thread, when they could do so many other things, like ...

1) take a nap
2) walk the dog
3) clean the house
4) watch ur favorite tv show
5) read some books
6) watch the news
7) read the news paper
8) play a game u like
9) have a jog
10) and so on

.....

...

10000000) comment on forum thread

Seems like almost anything else would be a healthier use of time than trying to discourage people from trying to find people cheating in a game that they like.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread, why are you commenting on it? And just as importantly, why are you so adamant in not only claiming that people shouldn't care enough about cheating to look into it? Are you worried that you will get caught up in it, because I for one can't see any other reason why you care so much about how we spend our time.

sollisb · Mar 18, 2018

Stigbob said:
It's cheating if you use it for an extra pip to gain an artificial edge and nothing else, if you let your little brother play with you/have an alternate CMDR then it's not cheating. Having it isn't the problem it's what you do with it that matters.

No better than clogging, cash-exploits or botting.

Having said that it's also comical in a tragic way and gives money to FDEV so no real biggy.

Not diss'ing you in any way... But.. Wouldn't letting someone else use your account also be cheating/against SLA?

I'm in the 'couldnt care less' camp about the extra pip to be honest; FDev do enough cheating themselves on the combat front. Botting on the other hand is just cheap.

Stigbob · Mar 18, 2018

master_xean said:
Isn't the broader point that someone who is willing 2 spend many many hours just spying and stalking on other people in the video game has lost perspective?

Like consider the options any person has:

1) take a nap
2) walk the dog
3) clean the house
4) watch ur favorite tv show
5) read some books
6) watch the news
7) read the news paper
8) play a game u like
9) have a jog
10) and so on

.....

...

10000000) stalk people in the video game, take notes on what they do

Seems like almost anything else would be a healthier use of time than the stalking doesnt it?

You don't know what stalking is.

sollisb · Mar 18, 2018

The Librarian said:
To any and all who are in the "so what if they are using bots" camp, please have a read of the relevant section of the EULA (https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/) that every single one of us has agreed to in purchasing this game (my emphasis):-

3. Licence Restrictions
You are not permitted:
(a) to load the Game on to a network server for the purposes of distribution to one or more other device(s) on that network or to effect such distribution;
(b) except as expressly permitted by this EULA and to the extent expressly permitted by applicable law, to rent, lease, sub-license, loan, exploit for profit or gain, copy, modify, adapt, merge, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or create derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Game or use, reproduce, distribute, translate, broadcast, publicly perform, store in a retrieval system or otherwise deal in the Game or any part thereof in any way;
(c) use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game;

This is actually very tricky ground.. FDev allow 'some' automation like Voice Attack, which gives a 'competitive' advantage? They allow reading of the journal, and allow updating private databases with information, which is then fed to players to give another unfair advantage?

So.. Which is allowed, and which is not?

That EULA isn't worth the paper it's written on.

A simple example; Is it ok for me to write some voice activated scripts?