False. I have met a number of Turnips in Vultures that prove your insulting statement wrong.
Discuss the AI here!
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False. I have met a number of Turnips in Vultures that prove your insulting statement wrong.
Wow. Seriously, I did not expect THAT. I'm so bored by this modern video games paradigm: let the player feel like he's smart.
I've been pummeled by AIs... 2 times in less than one hour. Hating multiplayer, I always play solo... and now I can see how much I suck at this game. I lost 25% of my money buying the same new ship. First, I shouted at my screen... then calm down and smiled in a high feeling of nostalgia (Ghouls & Ghost and such quite old and insanely hard games of the 80's). I want more kick in the ass like that! I wanna suffer, I wanna be punished for my laziness, I wanna fear the universe! Time to gain REAL experience... yeah, that's the spirit which has been lost by video games since ages. ENOUGH! Back to the basics.
Now that really feels like Elite: Dangerous. Thanks FD, though I fear that you will submit to whinners... everyone does in this industry... so please, I'm begging you: stay rock solid with that decision and you will gain all my respect (and believe me, it's really hard).
I go try again. I must train again and again. But first, I have some serious fittings to reconsider
Someone give this man a medal.
Seriously. I'm so tired of this "hold my hand and make every second I am online easy and predictable" attitude that a lot of people seem to have.
i like the new AI, what i didnt like last night was nearly every ai ship in the combat zones at neits had engineers mods, it wasnt just the high end skill ai with these mods it was nearly every ship. i did 7 runs, my first run i thought whats all this fuss about i raked in a load of merits, i really enjoyed the new ai. then i went back to hand in and i returned, thats where it all started to go very wrong. i dropped in waited for everything and picked my side. for a few mins i was raking the credits in then suddenly i was getting warnings galore thermal, impulse their was green burst lazer fire coming at me some weird big snot balls and a multitude of lazers of different hues, it was like a Jean Michel Jarre lazer light show, i popped.
i proceeded to return 5 more times they would start off ok then suddenly when the reinforcements came in thats when the crap storm would start again, one run i was hit with something akin to a ion cannon it knocked everything offline, i checked my internals they were at around 70% health.
my ship losses have wiped out the nice bonus i was getting from my placing in the cg, now ive not tried a rez yet so i cant comment on them, but the combat zones even the low ones are just broken 9 times out of 10.
The high zones are much safer than the lows.......
Now dont get me wrong i really like this new AI its great, i dont want the ai to change in the least, but i would like some parity between the ammount of them with engineers weapon mods and their skill levels.
i would rather be flying in open fighting gankers with terrible odds against me than the ai i encountered last night, as i would survive longer.
ive seen a lot of people complaining for both sides and i was on the side of whats all the fuss about until i was ganked by ai in the combat zones.
im not some care bear whining about the too hard AI as i love the change in them, i cut my teeth fighting against players in open and i welcome the change to ai with open arms.
but their does need to be some balancing of engineers modded weapons on AI as even the low skilled ai has them.
i proceeded to return 5 more times they would start off ok then suddenly when the reinforcements came in thats when the crap storm would start again, one run i was hit with something akin to a ion cannon it knocked everything offline, i checked my internals they were at around 70% health.
my ship losses have wiped out the nice bonus i was getting from my placing in the cg, now ive not tried a rez yet so i cant comment on them, but the combat zones even the low ones are just broken 9 times out of 10.
The high zones are much safer than the lows.......
Now dont get me wrong i really like this new AI its great, i dont want the ai to change in the least, but i would like some parity between the ammount of them with engineers weapon mods and their skill levels.
i would rather be flying in open fighting gankers with terrible odds against me than the ai i encountered last night, as i would survive longer.
ive seen a lot of people complaining for both sides and i was on the side of whats all the fuss about until i was ganked by ai in the combat zones.
im not some care bear whining about the too hard AI as i love the change in them, i cut my teeth fighting against players in open and i welcome the change to ai with open arms.
but their does need to be some balancing of engineers modded weapons on AI as even the low skilled ai has them.
Okay, that was pretty funny ^^ Good thing I've already finished my coffee.
Every ship should come with 50 Energy Bombs.
By the tone of this thread (I won't get on until tonight) it does sound to me like FD have slightly over-done the AI improvements.....
Yes NPC combat was too easy buuuuut, this sounds like an OTT swing the other way to me. Combat should be challenging but not impossible for the newer players and even arduous for the more experienced players, especially if the bounty / repair bill ratio makes it pointless participating. Do these changes to AI and weapons make the dedicated freighters pointless in-game now? And did I read somewhere here that someone had a 'Conda or Fed Vette busted up by an NPC Cobra?? that sounds terribly skewed. A Cobra should not be able to take down a Vett or Conda. I have an A-rated Cobra (somewhere, not sure where I left it) and it would be just as daft if I could go blowing up NPC 'Conda's and Vettes in it.... Either scenario is bonkers. Lets hope that things get balanced out so that the game remains fun and exciting for all and not just suited to the ubber rich and pew, pew pros.
Yes NPC combat was too easy buuuuut, this sounds like an OTT swing the other way to me. Combat should be challenging but not impossible for the newer players and even arduous for the more experienced players, especially if the bounty / repair bill ratio makes it pointless participating. Do these changes to AI and weapons make the dedicated freighters pointless in-game now? And did I read somewhere here that someone had a 'Conda or Fed Vette busted up by an NPC Cobra?? that sounds terribly skewed. A Cobra should not be able to take down a Vett or Conda. I have an A-rated Cobra (somewhere, not sure where I left it) and it would be just as daft if I could go blowing up NPC 'Conda's and Vettes in it.... Either scenario is bonkers. Lets hope that things get balanced out so that the game remains fun and exciting for all and not just suited to the ubber rich and pew, pew pros.
Wow. Seriously, I did not expect THAT. I'm so bored by this modern video games paradigm: let the player feel like he's smart.
I've been pummeled by AIs... 2 times in less than one hour. Hating multiplayer, I always play solo... and now I can see how much I suck at this game. I lost 25% of my money buying the same new ship. First, I shouted at my screen... then calm down and smiled in a high feeling of nostalgia (Ghouls & Ghost and such quite old and insanely hard games of the 80's). I want more kick in the ass like that! I wanna suffer, I wanna be punished for my laziness, I wanna fear the universe! Time to gain REAL experience... yeah, that's the spirit which has been lost by video games since ages. ENOUGH! Back to the basics.
Now that really feels like Elite: Dangerous. Thanks FD, though I fear that you will submit to whinners... everyone does in this industry... so please, I'm begging you: stay rock solid with that decision and you will gain all my respect (and believe me, it's really hard).
I go try again. I must train again and again. But first, I have some serious fittings to reconsider
Agreed. Finally, I have a game called Elite : Dangerous. I hope the challenge brought by NPCs stays as is forever.
I am sure this is not lost on frontier. There is almost certainly some finesse for the spawn rates, various procedural generation routines that are kicking these out to make sure they're on track, but I hope that that is actually what happens.
And not a knee-jerk reversal of AI competency. We've finally got decent AI, I'd hate to see the entire bath heading out the window.
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I find that fun.
In that I agree, though my poor Asp will probably hate us both. Do you know how many holes an FAS can put into my shiny golden paint job?
Wow. Seriously, I did not expect THAT. I'm so bored by this modern video games paradigm: let the player feel like he's smart.
I've been pummeled by AIs... 2 times in less than one hour. Hating multiplayer, I always play solo... and now I can see how much I suck at this game. I lost 25% of my money buying the same new ship. First, I shouted at my screen... then calm down and smiled in a high feeling of nostalgia (Ghouls & Ghost and such quite old and insanely hard games of the 80's). I want more kick in the ass like that! I wanna suffer, I wanna be punished for my laziness, I wanna fear the universe! Time to gain REAL experience... yeah, that's the spirit which has been lost by video games since ages. ENOUGH! Back to the basics.
Now that really feels like Elite: Dangerous. Thanks FD, though I fear that you will submit to whinners... everyone does in this industry... so please, I'm begging you: stay rock solid with that decision and you will gain all my respect (and believe me, it's really hard).
I go try again. I must train again and again. But first, I have some serious fittings to reconsider
Shades of "trying too hard" here I think, but it's the combative tone I can't understand. How can you insult whole swathes of the community if you've never met them and don't know what they're thinking? :S
The biggest issue in my view is that the ai are fully modded up already. This should have been ramped up over a number of months, because all the engineers are new to PCs.
So basically anyone who already has developed rank against the "old" ai now finds themselves fighting off tech heavy NPCs even in random interdictions. Trade builds are out of the window so chances are that now we can only really play it our way if our way involves kiting out a combat build.
So basically anyone who already has developed rank against the "old" ai now finds themselves fighting off tech heavy NPCs even in random interdictions. Trade builds are out of the window so chances are that now we can only really play it our way if our way involves kiting out a combat build.
Just for a bit of context, when I first started playing I immediately opted for combat in the stock sidewinder. I headed for a Nav beacon and stayed within range of the police patrol. I would be extremely selective about the ship I targeted, and always had an escape strategy planned if it went south. Wanted anaconda? Ignored it. Wanted cobra? Only engaged when the police had started firing on it. Haulers, sidewinders, and Eagles were pretty much my staple diet for a week.
You need a strategy, and a list of rules for yourself. You will die, that is a given, but you need to learn from each death.
You need a strategy, and a list of rules for yourself. You will die, that is a given, but you need to learn from each death.
I stand by my assertion, just avoid/escape/evade the NPCs that have too high a rating for your abilities -> I do
I run, jump, drop cargo, what ever it takes to get away, or survive long enough for the Police to arrive.
There is a range of NPC abilities, a balance for everyone
Avoid Missions that require high ranks. There were two missions to find a Black box at the station, one for Elite that paid a lot and one for mostly harmless that Paid not so much.
You can guess which I took, and it was not the one that gave a lot of CR.
Here is a Mostly Harmless NPC
Little to No Pip management, basic evasions, no lateral or vertical thrusters, Flight Assist On only.
No one can say that was too hard
And I ain't no great pilot, in a Sidewinder set up for multi role mission running.
The Gimbal on the Beam does all the fighting for me.
[video=youtube_share;rWExQZj3aiQ]https://youtu.be/rWExQZj3aiQ[/video]
Think that is a one off, nope
Mostly Harmless Imperial Courier
NPC used the same tactics
[video=youtube_share;EhOt_Nf-UyU]https://youtu.be/EhOt_Nf-UyU[/video]
Pick you missions to match you skill
Pick the systems based on security
Drop cargo if you need to
I run, jump, drop cargo, what ever it takes to get away, or survive long enough for the Police to arrive.
There is a range of NPC abilities, a balance for everyone
Avoid Missions that require high ranks. There were two missions to find a Black box at the station, one for Elite that paid a lot and one for mostly harmless that Paid not so much.
You can guess which I took, and it was not the one that gave a lot of CR.
Here is a Mostly Harmless NPC
Little to No Pip management, basic evasions, no lateral or vertical thrusters, Flight Assist On only.
No one can say that was too hard
And I ain't no great pilot, in a Sidewinder set up for multi role mission running.
The Gimbal on the Beam does all the fighting for me.
[video=youtube_share;rWExQZj3aiQ]https://youtu.be/rWExQZj3aiQ[/video]
Think that is a one off, nope
Mostly Harmless Imperial Courier
NPC used the same tactics
[video=youtube_share;EhOt_Nf-UyU]https://youtu.be/EhOt_Nf-UyU[/video]
Pick you missions to match you skill
Pick the systems based on security
Drop cargo if you need to
The AI needs to stay right where it is. Mostly because anything lower would kill the fun for +65% of the players. But also because much of the current feedback is based on a lack of engi upgrades. And Engi upgrades are MASSIVE, possibly overpowered even. We debated this ad nauseum in the Beta and 80% of players who had experience the full features of Beta (including engi upgrades) always came to the same conclusion. The current AI is the sweet spot.
The economic incentives however, may need to be relooked at. So far it doesn't sound like people are losing money. But maybe there aren't making enough on average. They are certainly having a ton of fun though, and once they get Engi Upgrades, then the money will start rolling in again.
So any premature CR/kill increase would have to be nerfed again in a month or two.
Yes, mommy... ahem, auntie...
Moved from a closed thread:
First of all, I was quite suspicious of the danger posed by the new AI and unparked my Clipper with a bit of concern. Equipped (and needed!) point defense and large multi cannons. Went to a Navigation Beacon to test and especially hoping to find some material. I was in Wolf 47 and encountered quite a mix of NPCs, from Mostly Harmless to Deadly (I am "Dangerous").
First off, I was somewhat handicapped by not having my usual X-52 Pro setup available (broken again, replaced under warranty, but parcel will take another 5 days to arrive), so I am playing with an older Saitek Cyborg Evo joystick - unfamiliar to me and no good throttle. But still, I did not find the AI too hard, if somewhat challenging. Would have been quite a bit easier for me with my HOTAS. Only real hairy moment was against a dangerous FGS with no assistance by Security, that cost me two SCBs.
I flew out with a ton of materials, a million in bounty vouchers and 100% hull. I would not consider myself a particularly good combat pilot, but I have a lot of experience with the game and know how to manage my pips and throttle.
However, I can see that a casual player with mediocre skills would be quite put off by the challenge they now face. This would include the (relative) newbies that just farmed credits and rank with easy AI kills and Robigo runs. While I assume that the first reaction of the hardcore community would be a shrug and "git gud" message, I ask you to think again. ED already has not the greatest reputation for being accessible to newbies and casuals - and that reputation is probably going to take another hit. As a consequence, sales to new players and season pass sales to casuals may suffer. This, in turn, might greatly hurt FDev's bottom line and in consequence endanger the long term viability of the game.
Thus, FDev (and we) should listen to the complaints about the UI. Maybe a NPC difficulty slider would be appropriate, with harder settings giving better combat-related rewards (military rank, combat rating, credits, materials etc) and possibly a trade bonus. This might reconcile the casuals without taking the fun away from the "hardcore" players.
TL;DR: new AI is nice, but maybe too much for casuals and less skilled players. This might hurt sales and thus future development. A difficulty slider adjusting AI challenge and rewards might help to reconcile this.
It might make people step up their game.
I think it is fine the way it is. Just a shame this was not in the initial release because it devalues those who already have elite combat status, a bit harder to earn it now than it was.The only other idea that might make sense is to level the AI to the combat rating of the CMDR but that has its own issues.
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In that I agree, though my poor Asp will probably hate us both. Do you know how many holes an FAS can put into my shiny golden paint job?
Many. My first 24 hours in beta wasn't pretty, it hurt. It gets better. You get a bead on what's going on after a few days and the gulf isn't what it was. Yes, engineering upgrades help, but just getting used to the new AI behaviour means you just adjust and adapt and it becomes the new norm.
Lord knows what beta 4 reception would have been like. Pitchforks outside of frontier's studio I suspect. I just hope this survives through the first update. Frontier will be under enourmous pressure to "fix it" by dumbing down AI again. I am hoping for a steady hand at the tiller.
What is decent about the AI when they just shoot you with a rail gun and ista kill you? Is that smart AI? No it is bull . I hate how everyone suspects me that I did something wrong even though I didn't. Those conflict zones are broken. PERIOD. It was a stupid low level mission for stupid 99K credits to kill 6 NPCs. Why the hell would I do it if the risk is so high? I can do 2 trader data missions and I get the same money.
I am enjoying the updated ai, now they present a threat. I can only assume complaints are coming from folks unwilling to adapt or looking for a single player game where they can face roll everything.
Yeah, that was in Beta4. Just finished turning the AspX into a long range ship thanks to Felicity, when an FAS decided to interdict me. If it wasn't for the cops I would have been at rebuy. Got away with 36% hull, but I beat the damned thing. At it was glorious. So yeah I'm the last person that wants the AI to go back to döner mode. But I do acknowledge that some fine tuning might be needed for their spawning and picking on low ranking commanders.
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