DLC20 Discussion (maybe, but why not?)

[RightWhale]

How I’m gonna wake up seeing that the new DLC is mammals only but does have the most detailed Sri-Lanken elephant model ever made by human hands:

 

[PlanetJameson]

Well some of the issue is some “crowds” more just want an approximation of their chosen animal. I’ll use myself for an example. I want a White Faced Whistling Duck. But if I got a black belly whistling duck, fulvous whistling duck, Muscovy duck, any teal, etc. I would honestly be happy.

For a lot of the gibbon crowd I imagine the need for the gibbon went down with the Lar Gibbon, even if I wasn’t their chosen champion.

I hope White-Faced Whistling Ducks are a day one species in PZ2. I fell in love with them when I saw them at ZooMiami. I can’t wait to build aviaries! Imagine how beautiful this game is going to sound with all those different bird songs filling the air.

Anyway, here’s my video of the White-Faced Whistling Ducks at ZooMiami

Source: https://youtube.com/shorts/nNoHiFc9M0s?si=2zFxPJXYw8E-3LST

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Even Then, Its The Only Bear species that isn't in The Game

Eurasian Brown Bears do exist.

 

[NachoB]

Eurasian Brown Bears do exist.

Yes but we already have the Brown bear species (two subespecies actually). He is right in that the ABB is really the only SPECIES of bear missing

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Yes but we already have the Brown bear species (two subespecies actually). He is right in that the ABB is really the only SPECIES of bear missing

In all honesty, I don't care about the taxonomy here. To me pushing the species vs. subspecies thing is just another way of saying "american wildlife is more important than european / everything else". And I say that as someone who loves to build north american areas and would also like the American Black Bear.
If I am supposed to substitute the european brown bear with a grizzly every time I build a german medium budget zoo, people can just substitute with the asian black bear.

 

[NachoB]

In all honesty, I don't care about the taxonomy here. To me pushing the species vs. subspecies thing is just another way of saying "american wildlife is more important than european / everything else". And I say that as someone who loves to build north american areas and would also like the American Black Bear.
If I am supposed to substitute the european brown bear with a grizzly every time I build a german medium budget zoo, people can just substitute with the asian black bear.

The problem here is that we got a (horrendous) himalayan brown bear that it barely has any use, instead of the EBB. But i think the ABB is a more likely candidate for our next and final bear tbh, coming as anniversary gift.

I don't think the American black bear is being considered at all. We've got enough bears.

There is no way they give the coati for free. ABB is a perfect choice for an anniversary animal, specially because we do have enough bears. But they are making another elephant as paid content so what do i know really lol

 

[NZFanatic]

There is no way they give the coati for free.

I agree.

But I don't think the American black bear is being considered, either.

 

[NZFanatic]

To me pushing the species vs. subspecies thing is just another way of saying "american wildlife is more important than european / everything else".

That feels like a reach here, Swjos. The taxonomy is just literally correct - the American black bear is the only full bear species not in the game. And if they are going to foist another bear upon us, it feels far more likely that it will be the last full species than another subspecies of brown bear. And you know I'd much prefer the EBB over the American black bear.

Of course I don't think we'll get either anyway.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

The problem here is that we got a (horrendous) himalayan brown bear that it barely has any use, instead of the EBB. But i think the ABB is a more likely candidate for our next and final bear tbh, coming as anniversary gift.

There is no way they give the coati for free. ABB is a perfect choice for an anniversary animal, specially because we do have enough bears. But they are making another elephant as paid content so what do i know really lol

More likely I can agree with and I also doubt we will ever get the Coati for free.

 

[Milurian]

I'd love fishing cat ngl

one of the few suggestions I have actually seen so ill support this.

 

[Milurian]

It's been mentioned by a few people already but not that surprisingly. It would be exactly in line with how the last two DLCs of JWE2 were handled, the timeframe is about the same.

Frankly if it's not today I'm expecting it either somewhere this week or next week; I don't see them teasing it months in advance given that they've never really done that before and with todays audiences that simply doesn't work anymore either.

Honestly it's quite simple, without a PC2 DLC on its way and with JWE3 being released in October something will get released during the summer slot. At this point in time this next PZ DLC looks like the most obvious candidate.

well my original guess before the teaser was going to be july so maybe it actually will be true and come in the first week of july. Though teasing the key art only on a stream with almost no indication any significant news would be shared in that stream, not sharing the key art to any other sources and then not releasing the pack details at the expected time all seems very weird to me.

The reality as it is right now is that PZ is the only game that they're actively putting out DLCs for. Up until the reveal of JWE3, it was also the only real source of "new" revenue, as no other game of their roster is putting out new paid content.

I'd say that as long as PZ is the only game putting out new paid content, we're still in the clear. Once PC2 starts putting out paid content and if JWE3 ends up getting a successful launch, then I think Frontier could be in a position where they can start phasing out PZ in favor for a potential PZ2.

Before that, I'd say that they'd probably not risk it.


We should also keep in mind that the current CM team is rather small and we don't have a dedicated team per game (nor ever had one aside from the one for Elite). The reveal of a new game takes a lot time and resources, it's only logical that the other games take a bit of a backseat.

If there was any sort of planning involved the JWE3 trailer should not have effected planet zoo info release since the approximate time it needs should of been accounted for.

 

[ChicoGenialoso1]

Yes but we already have the Brown bear species (two subespecies actually). He is right in that the ABB is really the only SPECIES of bear missing

Thank you

 

[Angeł]

Me waiting for PZ2 just so I can get the EBB.

 

[USzoofan42]

Me waiting for PZ2 just so I can get the ABB.
View attachment 431758

Wrong image. I fixed your post ;D

 

[SuzieSky]

The ABB is the last bear species missing from PZ, has a larger population than all other bear species combined in the wild, is the last iconic large animal for North America, has hovered around #20 on the wishlist for ages, is the most popular endemic animal for North America, has the greatest biome diversity of any bear species, has the 3rd highest captive presence of all bears, and has a ton of color morph options, including cinnamon red, blonde, chocolate brown, white, and blue-grey. It isn't a difficult animal to make and is probably a shoo-in for a temperate pack. Along with the coati and to a lesser extent the serval, I think it is one of the last 'basic' carnivorans that has yet to be added. If support were to end right now, many would wonder why they missed just one. Whether or not you like it or bears in general, its absence is obvious. I was disappointed when it didn't show up in Americas.

 

[SuzieSky]

In all honesty, I don't care about the taxonomy here. To me pushing the species vs. subspecies thing is just another way of saying "american wildlife is more important than european / everything else". And I say that as someone who loves to build north american areas and would also like the American Black Bear.
If I am supposed to substitute the european brown bear with a grizzly every time I build a german medium budget zoo, people can just substitute with the asian black bear.

The FBB has totally different habitat requirements than the ABB, it doesn't have the color morphs, and its model is pretty bad. The HBB model isn't great either, but I think it at least uses the same plants.

Comparing the diversity of European fauna to the entire North American continent is not apples to apples. North America contains an entire realm with several distinct but not biodiverse biomes, and a strip of another extremely biodiverse realm with a few animals whose ranges extend slightly beyond that border. To make a zoo section for each biome, you typically want ~3-5 species, with a mix of sizes and taxa. Because we have such low biodiversity, just covering each biome's basics would add most of the animals. I think our representation is mostly fine, bordering on overrepresented for small mammals and exhibit critters. We're just missing the last major zoo-relevant big carnivoran that also is the iconic big animal for most of the populous east coast and of course birds.

I don't understand why prioritizing the ABB is putting NA animals ahead of everyone elses' when we already have every other zoo-relevant species of large, land-dwelling carnivoran and several other subspecies besides that. There seems to be less hostility towards adding more big cat subspecies. I don't get it.

I agree with you on thinking the HBB instead of the EBB is a strange choice. I actually think it was easily the strangest decision of the base game roster. I could see how some of the hostility towards the ABB may be disappointment about this. I don't think the ABB rules out the EBB. Completing the bears at the continent-level instead of just the species level seems like a good goal, too, even though I have no personal issue with using the HBB as a substitute. Many want big cat subspecies to get new models. I think the EBB should be even more important than the cats, which are already complete at the species and continent level, although new models for them wouldn't be the worst thing.

While I think the coati, serval, and ABB are the last land-carnivorans I view as 'essential', I still think there are other good options, including several from Europe. Europe could still use a dedicated large carnivore, and I think a bear and/or a large canid would be good even if I don't personally need it. I also think pine/beech martens and EROs are good options for smaller critters. Most packs these days only have ~2 animals I'd call essential and some filler picks. I think a temperate pack could easily include my beloved ABB, a filler option or two for Europe, some nice pheasant(s) or duck(s), and some interesting smaller animals from East Asia and Australia. The EBB and/or canid could be a filler pick, or I think they'd actually be great candidates for an anniversary animal.

 

[ChicoGenialoso1]

The FBB has totally different habitat requirements than the ABB, it doesn't have the color morphs, and its model is pretty bad. The HBB model isn't great either, but I think it at least uses the same plants.

Comparing the diversity of European fauna to the entire North American continent is not apples to apples. North America contains an entire realm with several distinct but not biodiverse biomes, and a strip of another extremely biodiverse realm with a few animals whose ranges extend slightly beyond that border. To make a zoo section for each biome, you typically want ~3-5 species, with a mix of sizes and taxa. Because we have such low biodiversity, just covering each biome's basics would add most of the animals. I think our representation is mostly fine, bordering on overrepresented for small mammals and exhibit critters. We're just missing the last major zoo-relevant big carnivoran that also is the iconic big animal for most of the populous east coast and of course birds.

I don't understand why prioritizing the ABB is putting NA animals ahead of everyone elses' when we already have every other zoo-relevant species of large, land-dwelling carnivoran and several other subspecies besides that. There seems to be less hostility towards adding more big cat subspecies. I don't get it.

I agree with you on thinking the HBB instead of the EBB is a strange choice. I actually think it was easily the strangest decision of the base game roster. I could see how some of the hostility towards the ABB may be disappointment about this. I don't think the ABB rules out the EBB. Completing the bears at the continent-level instead of just the species level seems like a good goal, too, even though I have no personal issue with using the HBB as a substitute. Many want big cat subspecies to get new models. I think the EBB should be even more important than the cats, which are already complete at the species and continent level, although new models for them wouldn't be the worst thing.

While I think the coati, serval, and ABB are the last land-carnivorans I view as 'essential', I still think there are other good options, including several from Europe. Europe could still use a dedicated large carnivore, and I think a bear and/or a large canid would be good even if I don't personally need it. I also think pine/beech martens and EROs are good options for smaller critters. Most packs these days only have ~2 animals I'd call essential and some filler picks. I think a temperate pack could easily include my beloved ABB, a filler option or two for Europe, some nice pheasant(s) or duck(s), and some interesting smaller animals from East Asia and Australia. The EBB and/or canid could be a filler pick, or I think they'd actually be great candidates for an anniversary animal.

Easily, North America has enough wildlife for a hypothetical third DLC (like Bobcat, North American River Otter, Mountain Goat, White-Tailed Deer, Groundhog, Urson, American Badger, theres a lot of possibilities)

 

[Mjmannella]

The FBB has totally different habitat requirements than the ABB, it doesn't have the color morphs, and its model is pretty bad.

The Formosan black bear got a colourmorph a little while ago

 

[Marvinb]

The FBB has totally different habitat requirements than the ABB, it doesn't have the color morphs, and its model is pretty bad. The HBB model isn't great either, but I think it at least uses the same plants.

Comparing the diversity of European fauna to the entire North American continent is not apples to apples. North America contains an entire realm with several distinct but not biodiverse biomes, and a strip of another extremely biodiverse realm with a few animals whose ranges extend slightly beyond that border. To make a zoo section for each biome, you typically want ~3-5 species, with a mix of sizes and taxa. Because we have such low biodiversity, just covering each biome's basics would add most of the animals. I think our representation is mostly fine, bordering on overrepresented for small mammals and exhibit critters. We're just missing the last major zoo-relevant big carnivoran that also is the iconic big animal for most of the populous east coast and of course birds.

I don't understand why prioritizing the ABB is putting NA animals ahead of everyone elses' when we already have every other zoo-relevant species of large, land-dwelling carnivoran and several other subspecies besides that. There seems to be less hostility towards adding more big cat subspecies. I don't get it.

I agree with you on thinking the HBB instead of the EBB is a strange choice. I actually think it was easily the strangest decision of the base game roster. I could see how some of the hostility towards the ABB may be disappointment about this. I don't think the ABB rules out the EBB. Completing the bears at the continent-level instead of just the species level seems like a good goal, too, even though I have no personal issue with using the HBB as a substitute. Many want big cat subspecies to get new models. I think the EBB should be even more important than the cats, which are already complete at the species and continent level, although new models for them wouldn't be the worst thing.

While I think the coati, serval, and ABB are the last land-carnivorans I view as 'essential', I still think there are other good options, including several from Europe. Europe could still use a dedicated large carnivore, and I think a bear and/or a large canid would be good even if I don't personally need it. I also think pine/beech martens and EROs are good options for smaller critters. Most packs these days only have ~2 animals I'd call essential and some filler picks. I think a temperate pack could easily include my beloved ABB, a filler option or two for Europe, some nice pheasant(s) or duck(s), and some interesting smaller animals from East Asia and Australia. The EBB and/or canid could be a filler pick, or I think they'd actually be great candidates for an anniversary animal.

I think the biggest problem with the european roster is that the animal/habitat variety just kinda stinks a bit.
Unless youre willing to use substitutes you basicly only have hooftstock plus badger, fox and lynx. Not that any of them are bad tho, all of these were great addition.
But having no real option for climbing, semi aquatic creatures and lacking small animals in general is a little unfortunate. So getting the combination of otter, wildcat and marmot would greatly diversify the animal and habitat variety for the continent.
And having to use substitutes for both of your big main predators is also a little sad, more than a little sad when those substitutes are among the worst looking animals in game.

Bird wise it kinda sucks, but thats nothing new as the bird roster for every continent across the board sucks. Swan was really important for getting a waterfowl rig in the game, but its more an ambient animal than one your purposefully displayig.

 

[SuzieSky]

I think the biggest problem with the european roster is that the animal/habitat variety just kinda stinks a bit.
Unless youre willing to use substitutes you basicly only have hooftstock plus badger, fox and lynx. Not that any of them are bad tho, all of these were great addition.
But having no real option for climbing, semi aquatic creatures and lacking small animals in general is a little unfortunate. So getting the combination of otter, wildcat and marmot would greatly diversify the animal and habitat variety for the continent.
And having to use substitutes for both of your big main predators is also a little sad, more than a little sad when those substitutes are among the worst looking animals in game.

Bird wise it kinda sucks, but thats nothing new as the bird roster for every continent across the board sucks. Swan was really important for getting a waterfowl rig in the game, but its more an ambient animal than one your purposefully displayig.

Europe has more players than any region although East Asia and NA aren't far behind. Slight overrepresentation for those regions is therefore somewhat warranted. Even though I can't really point to any specific Europe-dwelling species beyond the mallard and pelican and honestly call it essential, I can totally see room for more from Europe, especially with continuing support. I have been at least somewhat supportive of the ERO, pine marten, Barbary macaque, mallard, great white pelican, rabbit, and at least one large carnivore as 'good/at least ok' picks despite not having a strong personal interest in them. You can search my post history if you like. However, I don't want to start a whole species campaign on y'all's behalf. I don't really see clear favorites on the wishlists, consensus on the forums, or animals that are unique and common in a high percentage of European zoos. I want you all to be able to build good zoos, too, but the unnecessary black bear hate makes me really sad.