Doing the same mistakes for 25 years?

[Dbrn47]

These aren't flaws

Depends on who you ask doesn't it?

My point? If you don't like it walk away.

If you don't like the argument, don't participate. See how that circle works?

It's called "space sim". It's a genre. Leave it if you don't like it.

Space sims can have unique, interesting missions. They can have a story, they can have a simple and intuitive UI, they can be user-friendly, they can have a huge galaxy with 'content'. You don't have to participate if you don't like the critiques. I'm sure plenty of people just roll their eyes and move on, why didn't you?

To the topic, well, it's not surprising. If something is successful, they are going to do it again. It's successful now according to their metrics and people in general, so why drastically change it? Just because there's some of us that want more than what is there it doesn't mean that they are making a mistake or are unsuccessful. They can do whatever they want with their game, the best thing to do is provide useful and constructive feedback or just vote with your wallet. They have shown at least some interest in changing their ideas up to something more in line with what the community likes, but I wouldn't expect some huge overhaul. I'm not even looking for that myself, just want some things to be more 'complete' here and there, more coherent. Patience is needed, the dev cycle for Elite is apparently pretty long. When in doubt, take a break and come back for the next patch much like you'd do with an MMO you burned out on.

 

[Dbrn47]

So go somewhere else.

No you. Not very useful or compelling is it?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Space sims can have unique, interesting missions. They can have a story, they can have a simple and intuitive UI, they can be user-friendly, they can have a huge galaxy with 'content'. You don't have to participate if you don't like the critiques. I'm sure plenty of people just roll their eyes and move on, why didn't you?

Which game are you thinking of that has a huge galaxy with great content, unique and interesting missions etc etc without lacking what ED has (flight model, VZR, audiovisual presentation, stellar forge etc)? I always get a 'cherry picking' vibe with such posts, as if people imagine how a game would be if it would combine the best of everything that came before. I think there is a reason that never happens. Sure, a game can have any of these things, but no game will have all of these things. Which isn't to say that things cant improve. But personally it would just make way more sense to work on atmo planets than add a bunch of unique missons. Just my 2c of course.

 

[Dbrn47]

Which game are you thinking of that has a huge galaxy with great content, unique and interesting missions etc etc without lacking what ED has (flight model, VZR, audiovisual presentation, stellar forge etc)? I always get a 'cherry picking' vibe with such posts, as if people imagine how a game would be if it would combine the best of everything that came before. I think there is a reason that never happens. Sure, a game can have any of these things, but no game will have all of these things. Which isn't to say that things cant improve. But personally it would just make way more sense to work on atmo planets than add a bunch of unique missons. Just my 2c of course.

I only said that they can have that stuff, not that they traditionally do, especially with multiplayer involved. Generally the galaxy shrinks to a minuscule size in comparison to have a story, let alone the rest of it. Games like X, Independence War, did some things better and some things worse and examples of comparatively small galaxies. Though yea, since we are there, I think the game could have been a lot better without the size and without multiplayer. *shrug* I don't really see the point in a huge galaxy with nothing to do but take screen shots after so many light years away from populated systems. Game just is what it is now. I see no reason they couldn't focus on some of the missing aspects though, aside from just not wanting to. That's really a different discussion that we don't need to visit now, however, since we've already done that as many times as star systems the game supposedly has.

It's never going to be some penultimate catering to all my desires or anyone else, no game is or likely ever will be, so that'd be silly to expect.

 

[Conflictus]

This is the last year Elite D will grow while being obviously subpar for 2018-19.
There’s a horde of new sci fi space setting games coming out -Bethesda’s StarField and Star Citizen Alpha 3.4 by December.
Elite has been great , just got long in the tooth in last 18 months, it’s a mature game, all,good. Maybe FDev will make something new after the Dinos era fades.
Try IL2 or DCS Normandy for dogfighting...
Go to Space Engine wpage and ask for a vehicle...
Xmas time will yield quite a few options, anyways it’s summer, get out into the world you crazy brainiac kids.
Peace and discovery.
Out

Pure speculative opinion but your entitled to it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I only said that they can have that stuff, not that they traditionally do, especially with multiplayer involved. Generally the galaxy shrinks to a minuscule size in comparison to have a story, let alone the rest of it. Games like X, Independence War, did some things better and some things worse and examples of comparatively small galaxies. Though yea, since we are there, I think the game could have been a lot better without the size and without multiplayer. *shrug* I don't really see the point in a huge galaxy with nothing to do but take screen shots after so many light years away from populated systems. Game just is what it is now. I see no reason they couldn't focus on some of the missing aspects though, aside from just not wanting to. That's really a different discussion that we don't need to visit now, however, since we've already done that as many times as star systems the game supposedly has.

I agree, and that is basically my view on this topic: things could be different in a million ways, and ED could have been a 'tiny galaxy, handcrafted, story-driven single player game'. But it was never ever even remotely pretending to be. It really seems as if everyone feels that FD should make whatever every individual considers 'the ideal space game', which is bound to be disappointing.

The good part is that there are 'different space games' that arent directly competing with ED. CoD:IW has the 'cinematic mix of FPS and space combat in a military scenario' vibe that Sq42 was supposed to be, NMS offers a chill 'walking around 70s aliens' experience, X:R has the 'be a space mogul in a beautifully fantastical space setting' bit, EvE has the 'cutthroat MMO social experiment' thing going etc. ED is at the end just ED: flying a small ship with a great flight model in an impressive galaxy for no reason other than you enjoy flying your spaceship. And yeah, tons of things could be improved.

Pretty sure they are cooking something up.

 

[Dbrn47]

I agree, and that is basically my view on this topic: things could be different in a million ways, and ED could have been a 'tiny galaxy, handcrafted, story-driven single player game'. But it was never ever even remotely pretending to be. It really seems as if everyone feels that FD should make whatever every individual considers 'the ideal space game', which is bound to be disappointing.

The good part is that there are 'different space games' that arent directly competing with ED. CoD:IW has the 'cinematic mix of FPS and space combat in a military scenario' vibe that Sq42 was supposed to be, NMS offers a chill 'walking around 70s aliens' experience, X:R has the 'be a space mogul in a beautifully fantastical space setting' bit, EvE has the 'cutthroat MMO social experiment' thing going etc. ED is at the end just ED: flying a small ship with a great flight model in an impressive galaxy for no reason other than you enjoy flying your spaceship. And yeah, tons of things could be improved.

Pretty sure they are cooking something up.

Definitely looking forward to the new X game and the upcoming NMS patch, heck, even Star Citizen, if it ever becomes a game. There's really no reason not to own some or all of them, just to get the differing experiences.

 

[GunnerBill]

No you. Not very useful or compelling is it?

What as opposed to your insightful comments?

Nah I think I'll stay here and eat the popcorn flowing from this thread.

 

[EdzUp]

Having played ALL versions of Elite from the first BBC one to todays offering I can say honestly that this is slowly getting there but it is very slow.

For me though the old games were:
Elite - loads of flying around no physics and was fun to play as a space shooter. Back when graphics were not amazing and normally not very animated having something like that would give gamers something to grasp and imagine themselves as a space combat pilot.

Frontier - This one was ok as has been said VERY empty, superpowers have been introduced but they dont do anything at all just give you missions to kill the others. Thargoids are gone apparently something happened which caused them to vanish which wasnt amazingly explained. Physics caused all manner of issues to old Elite players who were expecting Elites control system in 'Elite 2'. All the fun races from Elite (Green furry space rats etc, Hoopy casinos etc) all gone.

First Encounters - Nice graphics and models, more space and some more background stuff to do. Now the Thargoids are a back story to the game and the only mission available due to a bug was to "HELP" the Thargoids which they give you a ship for your trouble. Unfortunately FDEV choose the mission that apparently means they are still at war with everyone which nobody ever knew existed.

Elite Dangerous - Nice graphics, very slow burner. Now has multiplayer. Controls have been changed to give Old Elite's a chance. Lots of useless things added and loads of missed opportunities which is a shame the game could be far further forwards had Powerplay never been created.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Definitely looking forward to the new X game and the upcoming NMS patch, heck, even Star Citizen, if it ever becomes a game. There's really no reason not to own some or all of them, just to get the differing experiences.

Just between you and me: 'even' the current X:R is easily worth the money. It isnt the real successor to X3, but after the first 18 months of patches its become pretty cool. And NMS is also in my library, as is Evochron. Its a good time to live for spacegame fans, compared with the decade that came before, which is why it is so tragic that so many people seem more upset and negative than ever.

 

[Dbrn47]

What as opposed to your insightful comments?

Nah I think I'll stay here and eat the popcorn flowing from this thread.

You seem to have missed the point. Enjoy the popcorn.

 

[Spacecat]

Interesting. Having never played any of the older games, now I see where the design philosophy comes from.

 

[Zelos1983]

tl;dr: While FDev has solved the performance problems of earlier titles, it seems they are doing the same mistakes, they did 25 years ago:
- generic, boring missions
- lacking story
- overly complex gui and handling
- in general "user-hostile"
- a whole galaxy empty of content

I haven't played the old titles, but it really shocked me to see the same flaws in Elite: Dangerous 25 years later.

One should know better than to trust video game journalists.

Frontier - Elite II was one of the best games of it's time and was extensively played by those who had it. It had a flight model superior to Elite Dangerous and many flaws E has now didn't exist (e.g. the savegame model works a lot better than the online solo mode). Apart form some odd memory configuration, it didn't have performance issues in contrast to E, which often stutters and experiences frame drops, despite running on appropriate hardware).

Keep in mind that "story" is not a neccessary part of any game. Many great titles never had one, just think of Tetris.

 

[gothik]

Coming from the discussion from Yamiks' video "we"

YAMIKS?
this guy is ranting and raging about the game he and we playsi and this is the fundament he earns his money with his videochannel?
he makes you think about flaws in elite?some people say he is funny,but in his videos,which brings him a lot of money,
the most time he is ranting about the game we play??
he made a video fdev makes gameplay unrentable;he killed the skimmer missions by making them public so they get nerved,for clicks..and ranting about the devs for nerving them..
why let the elite community let the guy getting away with this?yelling and ranting over a game we play,
and make on this base a youtubestar of him who earns money with nothing more as ranting and yelling about our beloved elite??
its not a discussion base,those yamiks..
all poeple here who likes elite,even with its flaws;
unsign yamiks,stop let him make money for ranting and yelling about our lovely elite!
nothing against critics;yamiks is not a serious critic of this game;
he is yelling about changes he moved on for clicks;skimmer missions,as example...
he is permanent ranting about a game which makes him money to live.
there is almost no information about the game on his channel.
think about it if you let those guy make elite bad.

 

[GunnerBill]

You seem to have missed the point. Enjoy the popcorn.

OK, me bad. But I still don't get it

 

[Havvk]

YAMIKS?
this guy is ranting and raging about the game he and we playsi and this is the fundament he earns his money with his videochannel?
he makes you think about flaws in elite?some people say he is funny,but in his videos,which brings him a lot of money,
the most time he is ranting about the game we play??
he made a video fdev makes gameplay unrentable;he killed the skimmer missions by making them public so they get nerved,for clicks..and ranting about the devs for nerving them..
why let the elite community let the guy getting away with this?yelling and ranting over a game we play,
and make on this base a youtubestar of him who earns money with nothing more as ranting and yelling about our beloved elite??
its not a discussion base,those yamiks..
all poeple here who likes elite,even with its flaws;
unsign yamiks,stop let him make money for ranting and yelling about our lovely elite!
nothing against critics;yamiks is not a serious critic of this game;
he is yelling about changes he moved on for clicks;skimmer missions,as example...
he is permanent ranting about a game which makes him money to live.
there is almost no information about the game on his channel.
think about it if you let those guy make elite bad.

what?

 

[Vasea Azure]

YAMIKS?
this guy is ranting and raging about the game he and we playsi and this is the fundament he earns his money with his videochannel?
he makes you think about flaws in elite?some people say he is funny,but in his videos,which brings him a lot of money,
the most time he is ranting about the game we play??
he made a video fdev makes gameplay unrentable;he killed the skimmer missions by making them public so they get nerved,for clicks..and ranting about the devs for nerving them..
why let the elite community let the guy getting away with this?yelling and ranting over a game we play,
and make on this base a youtubestar of him who earns money with nothing more as ranting and yelling about our beloved elite??
its not a discussion base,those yamiks..
all poeple here who likes elite,even with its flaws;
unsign yamiks,stop let him make money for ranting and yelling about our lovely elite!
nothing against critics;yamiks is not a serious critic of this game;
he is yelling about changes he moved on for clicks;skimmer missions,as example...
he is permanent ranting about a game which makes him money to live.
there is almost no information about the game on his channel.
think about it if you let those guy make elite bad.

Wow, slow down, take a breather and separate your sentences

 

[Enderby]

Coming from the discussion from Yamiks' video "we" came to the point where it was speculated where this partly weird game design came from. Today I came across an article from the German PC magazine Gamestar, which has a monthly article series on bad, old PC games and the circumstances at the time, called: "Legendary bad". In January it featured "Frontier - Elite 2" (online article here (subscription only!). It shows, even back then journalists and players strongly disagreed on a verdict on this game. While some liked the complexity and diversity, some criticized flight model, controls and lack of story. Mostly the technical achievement of the galaxy simulation was acclaimed, while the game mechanics are said to be lacking. On that, even Ian Bell was agreeing: "It is one thing to write a simulator, but games are about fun, not realism".
Further the article states it was possible to land on planets and see cities, but with nothing to do besides "generic and boring missions". "First encounter", the successor of "Frontier - Elite 2", is being described as having a lot of bugs and having fundamental problems.

tl;dr: While FDev has solved the performance problems of earlier titles, it seems they are doing the same mistakes, they did 25 years ago:
- generic, boring missions
- lacking story
- overly complex gui and handling
- in general "user-hostile"
- a whole galaxy empty of content

I haven't played the old titles, but it really shocked me to see the same flaws in Elite: Dangerous 25 years later.

Oh then that is a shame to see then doing exactly the same things again.

 

[RidingTheFlow]

Yamiks rants a lot, but I think some don't realise its kind of "stage persona" entirely on purpose over the top (think AVGN).
If you don't concentrate on rough language, you will see that he's bringing entirely valid points which many other people brought up here.

 

[Maro-Val]

I havent played the older titles, but at some point i was wondering, why such a magnificent game is so shallow. I was thinking that there should be some reason, a bigger picture that i was missing..

So i did a small research on the internet and i read some stuff about the Elite titles. The result that i came up with and which created the big picture for me, was that this game follows a specific design pattern, which isnt so bad once you find out that this philosophy is very old.
But was it allways that way? The answer is NO. It just lost its soul at some point, and whats left was brilliant but soul-less coding and cold bussiness ideas. Thats why the phrase "a mile wide, an inch deep" stick so well. This game needs again a true gamers touch in order to be saved, if it really needs saving, depends from where you look at it. Financially it is doing great for example..