Were not all made of money my friend
ED and the Oculus Rift DK1 Discussion Thread
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Were not all made of money my friend
Of course we could use the "frankly who cares" argument with any other "small in game advantage" producing things. Like 3rd person views, HUD with no cockpit, turn off camera shake and so forth. They've all been dismissed primarily because of concerns that small in game advantages would be given to players using such options. So what makes OR so different? Why shouldn't the playing field be as levelled as much as possible with that as well? Why is a small in game advantage of no concern here?
I really don't mind if OR users have a small advantage. But please don't use the "who cares" argument for OR and then "oh noes can't have that it gives an advantage!" for things you don't personally like (I'm not aiming this at you in particular Cosmos, I've no idea of your views on 3rd person, no cockpit, no camera shake etc).
Just upsets me that for some reason in-game options are seen as totally evil if they might give a small advantage, but external-to-game things like OR, HOTAS, macroing software are all a-ok! Such a weird inconsistent viewpoint when the in-game stuff is available to all but the external stuff is dependent on finances or geek level.
Those with limited finances, or who don't want to wear stuff on their head, or who get nauseous, or who like multitasking in their games with other windows open, or... the list goes on
The tech certainly interests me greatly and if I find myself with spare cash when the full version is released I may just pick one up. But I don't see myself being able to use it regularly, it's just TOO all-consuming - I need to be able to keep myself in the real world to a degree to deal with RL stuff. Cutting myself off is not a (regular) option 
I think it's super-important to fully support this new technology without placing artificial restrictions on it. But I definitely agree with helping out people who won't have one features to level the playing field. But it might not be important until the OR is actually finished.
If the playing field is going to be level for everyone then everyone should be forced to use a keyboard for control. No joysticks, no controllers, just a keyboard.
I have an Oculus Rift dev kit but will have to wait until the Beta to try it with Elite: Dangerous. I currently use the dev kit for iRacing (motor racing sim) and the immersion is incredible. I expect the same for Elite: Dangerous.
To the naysayers who say they won't buy an Oculus Rift (or equivalent) because they don't want to be cut off from the world, the resolution is lower than monitors, they don't want to be nauseous all I can say is, you haven't tried one have you? Trust me, for the vast majority, sooner or later you'll be buying one.
I have an Oculus Rift dev kit but will have to wait until the Beta to try it with Elite: Dangerous. I currently use the dev kit for iRacing (motor racing sim) and the immersion is incredible. I expect the same for Elite: Dangerous.
To the naysayers who say they won't buy an Oculus Rift (or equivalent) because they don't want to be cut off from the world, the resolution is lower than monitors, they don't want to be nauseous all I can say is, you haven't tried one have you? Trust me, for the vast majority, sooner or later you'll be buying one.
Depends on the price and how much I judge I'd actually use it. My gaming sessions are usually 30mins or less at a time, every couple of days. I'm doubtful whether going through the faff of putting on a headset and getting into the "zone" would be worth it, plus the outlay would probably be better spent on a new graphics card for me. What's the projected RRP for the final release OR? Any ideas yet? I've been working on an assumption of £300ish. Realistic?
This has been implemented in Flight Sims since Falcon 3.0, and it makes a huge difference. I certainly hope it will be implemented. Like when there's a missile warning, you should be able to have the option to padlock to the missile so you can evade.
They still say they're aiming for $300 which, knowing the way the exchange rate works, probably equates to £300. However the PC hardware requirements are possibly going to be higher than previously thought so it's not as simple as that. I'll pay what it takes because it's so damn good (and I don't have a wife to convince, nor kids to feed)! :smilie: I would have it even for those 30 minutes, given the choice, as those 30 minutes will be spent in a whole other level of experience.
I only have a laptop, why should they waste time implementing multi monitor support, this will give people rich enough to afford three monitors an unfair advantage. I can't afford a joystick either never mind a Hotas. I am not even sure if my laptop will run E so continuing development just empowers those rich enough to afford a decent computer.
so continuing development just empowers those rich enough to afford a decent computer.Thanks for the info. Yes I'd got the impression that my lowly 7850 wasn't going to cut it, either. Probably out of the question for me then!
Well Palmer Luckey of Oculus has said repeatedly that he wants the consumer version to be at the $300 USD level (or very close), so even if they go to $350, that takes it to £213 GBP. Of course, we will get stiffed being in the UK, so it'll come out at close to or just over £300.
The thing is, they've convinced a load of venture capitalists that they'll sell a metric gigaton of the things, so the price will have to be reasonable since for many consumers it will be unknown tech and a bit of a punt.
Anyhow, of possible interest: Here are three talks from the recent Valve Dev Days:
Palmer Luckey: Porting games to VR
Michael Abrash: What VR Could, Should, and Almost Certainly Will Be within Two Years
Discovering the rules of Oculus Rift development
The thing is, they've convinced a load of venture capitalists that they'll sell a metric gigaton of the things, so the price will have to be reasonable since for many consumers it will be unknown tech and a bit of a punt.
Anyhow, of possible interest: Here are three talks from the recent Valve Dev Days:
Palmer Luckey: Porting games to VR
Michael Abrash: What VR Could, Should, and Almost Certainly Will Be within Two Years
Discovering the rules of Oculus Rift development
Getting into the zone on the rift is pretty much instantaneous Barns and takes no effort.
Shame you wont invest mate, thats going to be some seriously next level gaming that you'll miss out on :/
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+1
Exactly that
Also +1 with iRacing being great on OR...before I maybe raced for an hour before getting bored of racing sims...I certainly wouldnt persevere with it to the point that Im learning different tracks off by heart and learning how to drive a fast lap around it, but with Rift-iRacing I race happily for a couple of hours per night, missus permitting, and 3-4 hours at the weekend, and being blown away for every moment of it.
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This might be a very interesting and informative video for the devs at FD.
Palmer Luckey: Porting Games to VR (from the recent Steam Dev Days).
Loads there that's totally relevant to fundamental E: D development.
Apologies if I'm attempting to teach my granny how to suck eggs!
Palmer Luckey: Porting Games to VR (from the recent Steam Dev Days).
Loads there that's totally relevant to fundamental E: D development.
Apologies if I'm attempting to teach my granny how to suck eggs!
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I think the point is that multi monitor support is generally a no brainier whereas the Rift support needs a lot of R&D. I actually think its a very wise strategic choice to support the Rift because when it is released its looking like its going to be huge.
I'd still like to see multi monitor support though
[SUGGESTION] Oculus Rift auto-focus and mouse control
While the current OR implementation in E-D is awesome, the actual device has resolution problems, and there's no guarantee that the final device goes to their published resolution, or that it arrives on time for the game's launch.
As such, right now it's impossible to see the side panels clearly, and also difficult/non-intuitive to use them. So here's my suggestion:
When using the OR (or, say, mouse look mode without OR), then looking at the panel (say, more or less stationery in the direction of the panel for about 0.25 seconds or longer), then zoom in a bit to make it readable (i tried to lean in using the OR, which would be more intuitive if possible, with the lean in making it focus the panel). Then:
a) enable the panel for input (as currently implemented), so I can free up three joystick buttons from focussing on panels and instead use them for cargo scoops/sub system targetting etc.. etc... Any head movement away then un-focuses the panel automagically
or
b) enable the panel for mouse input (not actually implemented at the moment), so that it's point and click. It does not need a mouse pointer on the screen, more like Doom3, have a mouse pointer floating on the panel itself so that the pointer is floating on the panel's surface, but not so immersion-breaking. U could do this with mouse look as well, when looking with the mouse and the screen center hits over the panel, focus it and show a pointer.
this can be managed with two options from the Controls menu ("Free Floating Panel Control" and "VR Panel Auto-Focus"), so that anybody that likes/is used to the current setup can keep it, but should timelines with the OR slip, the final game and/or the beta aren't impacted/are playable.
While the current OR implementation in E-D is awesome, the actual device has resolution problems, and there's no guarantee that the final device goes to their published resolution, or that it arrives on time for the game's launch.
As such, right now it's impossible to see the side panels clearly, and also difficult/non-intuitive to use them. So here's my suggestion:
When using the OR (or, say, mouse look mode without OR), then looking at the panel (say, more or less stationery in the direction of the panel for about 0.25 seconds or longer), then zoom in a bit to make it readable (i tried to lean in using the OR, which would be more intuitive if possible, with the lean in making it focus the panel). Then:
a) enable the panel for input (as currently implemented), so I can free up three joystick buttons from focussing on panels and instead use them for cargo scoops/sub system targetting etc.. etc... Any head movement away then un-focuses the panel automagically
or
b) enable the panel for mouse input (not actually implemented at the moment), so that it's point and click. It does not need a mouse pointer on the screen, more like Doom3, have a mouse pointer floating on the panel itself so that the pointer is floating on the panel's surface, but not so immersion-breaking. U could do this with mouse look as well, when looking with the mouse and the screen center hits over the panel, focus it and show a pointer.
this can be managed with two options from the Controls menu ("Free Floating Panel Control" and "VR Panel Auto-Focus"), so that anybody that likes/is used to the current setup can keep it, but should timelines with the OR slip, the final game and/or the beta aren't impacted/are playable.
The current OR doesn't feature "leaning in". It only has three degrees of freedom (pitch, yaw and roll). The Crystal Cove prototype (and anything beyond that) does allow leaning in and peeking around corners (6 DOF).
But yeah, the side panels are currently pretty much unreadable; I can make out vague shapes so I can see if someone has a bounty or not, but that's about it. However I'd not expect them to do any significant work on this as it is supposed to be a development kit only and they'll probably have it at a size they know will be readable when displayed at a proper resolution.
But, considering they'll probably want to highlight the games compatibility with OR, maybe they will tweak it.
Ah, didn't know the basic OR headset was restricted with movement as well as resolution.
An "intelligent zoom" as proposed would be a fairly simple ray/quad collision test with a timer, but there's an even easier one, in the interim just to make things playable in the Alpha, a "VR Zoom In" toggle button, so I can read what the health is on the current victim, shield level etc... (warped or otherwise) for the time being until a more proper solution can be implemented. Should then just be a matter of offsetting the pilot camera by a fixed distance. Possibly better also just to insta-switch it, if it's animated, it may be nauseous.
An "intelligent zoom" as proposed would be a fairly simple ray/quad collision test with a timer, but there's an even easier one, in the interim just to make things playable in the Alpha, a "VR Zoom In" toggle button, so I can read what the health is on the current victim, shield level etc... (warped or otherwise) for the time being until a more proper solution can be implemented. Should then just be a matter of offsetting the pilot camera by a fixed distance. Possibly better also just to insta-switch it, if it's animated, it may be nauseous.
Already posted this link in Tykjen's thread here about the OR, but it might have been missed.
Palmer Luckey of OculusVR talking about best practice for VR games.
Covers stuff like UI, scaling etc. Good info for devs (and interesting too).
That said, the proper consumer Oculus will be a LOT better than the DK1 version:
Higher res, no blurring, the ability to zoom (move your head closer!) and read text.
The UI thing should be a non-issue for the consumer Rift.
Palmer Luckey of OculusVR talking about best practice for VR games.
Covers stuff like UI, scaling etc. Good info for devs (and interesting too).
That's at about 13:30. Possibly slightly misquoted, but that's the gist.
That said, the proper consumer Oculus will be a LOT better than the DK1 version:
Higher res, no blurring, the ability to zoom (move your head closer!) and read text.
The UI thing should be a non-issue for the consumer Rift.
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Example: Earlier in a game, I turned off life support instead of the guns because I couldn't read what I'm selecting. Sure, I can wait 6 months (unless OR move to Valve time, in which case, longer ), that's not a problem. Can't really test the game properly with OR then, can't tell whether I need shields, or what sub function disabling, or what sub-system I am targetting. The game will probably need an auto-lean anyway in case somebody headbutts their own monitor trying to read the cargo scoop readout. It's only a matter of time!
A zoom in button would have been a cheap but workable fix in the meantime, as the panels can be scaled to zoom in no problem, the game does this on 3D monitors already.
), that's not a problem. Can't really test the game properly with OR then, can't tell whether I need shields, or what sub function disabling, or what sub-system I am targetting. The game will probably need an auto-lean anyway in case somebody headbutts their own monitor trying to read the cargo scoop readout. It's only a matter of time!A zoom in button would have been a cheap but workable fix in the meantime, as the panels can be scaled to zoom in no problem, the game does this on 3D monitors already.
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