External View [A definitive discussion]

[Armour]

Have you read the first post in the thread -You actually don't seem to make any considered point other than accusing other people of seemingly being in the wrong?

Obviously, you haven't read all of my other posts in this thread, so your next piece of advice is ironic...

Anyway, if you were to read the thread, of course there are people with strong views on both "sides". However, most folks are fairly rational and level headed about the matter and can see pro's and con's for most of the points.

There are a lot of posts that consist mainly of "I can't understand why" and "I see no reason" - level headed, rational, can see "pro's and con's" (sic) - sounds like you should take your own advice about reading the thread.

That said, I've yet to be convinced why an external view cannot be fitted into the game that not only offers what most people want from such a view, while also not introducing any of the "advantages" many are concerned about.

Let's face it, most of the posters in this thread will never be convinced, they made their minds up before opening the thread. So using disclaimers like "yet to be" are disingenuous, and imply a level openmindedness that is severely lacking in the content of most of the posts in here.

Let's see what FD can do about the matter... No need to get confrontational/accusatory in the meantime!

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just calling it like I see it based upon the thread (which I have read, contrary to your post accusing me of not having done so, and not having any points to make. Not accusatory or confrontational at all, that.)

 

[Ardent Finder]

Ship spinning. This game needs it.

You know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, baby.

I lol'd.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Spinning ship in the fitting window would be great - at least now when we cant walk around. We really need this to fully admire the ship design and skins.

 

[Valkara]

Sounds like a good idea for starters, although, I think eventually the idea will be that we can exit our ship and walk around anyway - lets hope that is the case. They have it with X: Rebirth and it works albeit that its buggy as hell (last time I tried it anyway).

 

[Sebastien]

Wont purchase any paint job befor any cemera view is avaiable, why bohter wasting my moneny on something invisible in the game?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Jeroll3d]

Frontier GO imlement external cameras.

 

[Vasea Azure]

I got blue cammo for my Cobra - still not sure how it looks like

 

[Deyn]

i'm sort of bias because I like an optional 3rd person view, mainly because it makes up for the lack of peripheral vision. I liked looking at my ships in x3 or watching battles in cinematic or chase. I liked playing Dayz(mod) in 3rd person, i still use 3rd person in Arma 3 when I want to get a better view of the surroundings.

until walking in stations is implemented you can't currently SEE your ship in all its glory (ok ok we have outfitting but it would be nice to see it with the space backdrop), cockpit view is cool and all, would be nice to see the exterior aswell.

even if it was only a non combat thing, its much too difficult fighting in 3rd person so its not going to become a balance issue.

Mind the difference between 3rd person view (over the shoulder, pans with the ship to look where you point) and EXTERNAL view (a camera that need to be panned around your ship looking in the direction your mouse left it).

Next ArmA, DayZ and all other "First Person"/"3rd person" shooter games, have a difference to Flight sims or space sims... you have a 3-Dimensional environment instead of crouching on the floor hiding behind house corners or rocks... aaaand you have a scanner!!! You know that round radar thingy in the cockpit showing you where the enemy ships are!

Imagine ArmA with a radar screen showing all the hidden Sharpshooter campers" and the enemy squad hiding around the corner and now argue how an external camera is an advantage???

All arguments evolve around "stealthily" sneaking up on someone, while hiding behind an asteroid! Well, you can only hide from scanners if you go shields off and power down/silent running... it takes quite a while for your shields to reinitiate, especially if you have power diverted to the weapons, as you want to kill someone. Now, if that guy simply turns 180 degrees and gives you a good load of Laser energy/bullets, your hull might be down to 40% in the first few seconds after you showed up on his scanners, or hit his shields.

That would be a REAL combat advantage, to sneak up on somebody. Like pulling your tiny handgun and sneaking up on a bunch of Special forces armed to the teeth with armor vests and all, hoping you survive the first shots?

The "stealth" aspect of silent running is mostly focused around getting past a scan or maybe hiding from some pirates in an asteroid field, yet the few seconds won't help that much, actually.

Bottomline: A simple external view is not a game changer in combat at all...

 

[Jeroll3d]

Frontier go give to game external view.

 

[Deyn]

Oh look, yet another sarcastic appeal to realism, yet again. Do you need the extensive list of unrealistic aspects in this game re-read to you? Why is the prospect of an external view so, sooooo unbearable, when we have so many other things that any fair-minded person would consider equally if not more unrealistic, yet put up with anyway?

He has read my answers to his "Bravo Sierra" and decided to pick another post and go for sarcasm, as he can't really counter with arguments anymore... the typical reaction on this board!

 

[Privata]

The only way it should be done is a very expensive drone that flys out of your ship and locks on to it. otherwise it will take away from the life-sim aspect of the game and dumb it down a bit

 

[NeilF]

Obviously, you haven't read all of my other posts in this thread, so your next piece of advice is ironic...

The comment was regarding the last post you made though... So let's look at the post shall we?

The thread title is misleading.

So first you criticize the thread title.

This isn't a discussion. It's a long line of people popping in occasionally to repeat the ironic mantra "the game must share my point of view - no other is acceptable".

Then you criticize the people posting in it.

This isn't definitive, since the developers have the final say in reality, and we're not privy to those discussions.

No one claims the thread is "definitive" in outcome or content. It was an attempt to rationalise half a dozen topics all covering the same issue over and over and over, into on single "definitive" one. In an attempt to help people understand where we stand on them matter. I hope it's achieved/achieving that.

And it's not really about external views, it's been commandeered by a group lobbying for the inclusion of a subset of all conceivable external view types, and against any other type.

...and back to criticize the people posting in it again.



Why bother criticizing and/or being so glass-half-empty? Simply post a reasoned opinion and leave it at that. I guarantee the outcome will be better

 

[Kyle Brennan]

Ok, so I've spent 10 min in this game, training to launch, all spent looking for an external view - I've been playing simulators for 20 years, huge on flightsim.com - look up my name- wrote a great article on immersion simming 15 years ago, I find it absolutely ridiculous that there is no external view in this game, every simulator from 1995 on has it! Battle Cruiser, FS95, 98, 2000, 2004, X and PrePar3d, Xplane, Fly, FLYII, these are all more robust simulators than this and they all had it. Crap - even Orbiter 2010 - a Freeware space simulator has it! Don't talk to me about "immersion" as that is an excuse for not having it, Its a GAME people! If anyone can choose not to use it if they don't want to! Are we communist now? lets save the people from not being immersed? Is this going to happen and WHEN? I do feel cheated on this based on the on line advertising AND the basic fact that precedence IS that simulators HAVE EXTERNAL VIEWS! Where is mine?

Oh well, if you are such a hot shot sim man then you must be right. It's not like Elite has a 30 year legacy or anything like that.

 

[NeilF]

[Off topic a bit]

OMG! Only just discovered we can't even take screen shots without the cockpit (& HUD etc) in the way.

I thought this had been added in just prior to Release, but seemingly not. Really cannot understand that at all! So you simply want to get a nice screenshot of a view (planet/star etc), and you can't.

Frontier are promoting you make your own history/experience in the game, and yet here we are, at release unable to even take a nice screenshot of some of it

 

[purf]

I'm totally in favour of drones. And they could even serve more purpose than just for the gaping at your ship - think of some future in which they could be used to assess some damage before we go out to perform 0 gravity repairs. But, yes, when the drone is in use, you stop controlling the ship period.
But, OP, dude, maybe look up some definition of 'Simulation' and then think (not that hard, really) about what External Views have to do with it. Just because other games offer them as a courtesy or whatever to the player they certainly don't become a "precedence" for simulations.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Oh well, if you are such a hot shot sim man then you must be right. It's not like Elite has a 30 year legacy or anything like that.

Back then it also had external view, though

 

[almostpilot]

Ok, so I've spent 10 min in this game, training to launch, all spent looking for an external view - I've been playing simulators for 20 years, huge on flightsim.com - look up my name- wrote a great article on immersion simming 15 years ago, I find it absolutely ridiculous that there is no external view in this game, every simulator from 1995 on has it! Battle Cruiser, FS95, 98, 2000, 2004, X and PrePar3d, Xplane, Fly, FLYII, these are all more robust simulators than this and they all had it. Crap - even Orbiter 2010 - a Freeware space simulator has it! Don't talk to me about "immersion" as that is an excuse for not having it, Its a GAME people! If anyone can choose not to use it if they don't want to! Are we communist now? lets save the people from not being immersed? Is this going to happen and WHEN? I do feel cheated on this based on the on line advertising AND the basic fact that precedence IS that simulators HAVE EXTERNAL VIEWS! Where is mine?

You are not alone in this. Also want the external view in the game, as already said in other posts any more hardcore flight simulator than ED has the external view. Even because it is not only a pvp game.

 

[specialsymbol]

I'm all for external views. I hate that I still haven't figured out what my ship looks like from the outside.

Also I'd love to be able to save replays of the past 60 seconds and if nothing else, then at least there pick different viewpoints and angles.

Edit: Well, 60 seconds is kinda short. Let's extend this to 600. Should at least cover all my glorious docking manoeuvers, including the one where I accidentally opened chat and kept crashing into walls because I couldn't figure out why lateral movement didn't work anymore.

 

[carlisle]

Its a GAME people! If anyone can choose not to use it if they don't want to! Are we communist now? lets save the people from not being immersed?

Yes, I seem to remember one of Lenin's key principles was for simulators to not feature a third-person view, right between collectivised farming and setting up soviets... keep your hair on.