But it isn't all or nothing, you can already take HUD and cockpitless pictures, with other ships in them or not, which creates emergent gameplay, like I explained in my previous post. This new "feature" as is, only removes this emergent gameplay (e.g "why do you need a ship to fly where you are for you to take a picture of? just use your debug camera mode").
External View [A definitive discussion]
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But it isn't all or nothing, you can already take HUD and cockpitless pictures, with other ships in them or not, which creates emergent gameplay, like I explained in my previous post. This new "feature" as is, only removes this emergent gameplay (e.g "why do you need a ship to fly where you are for you to take a picture of? just use your debug camera mode").
This one can't confer any combat advantage because it can't be used during combat, but in general the concern is about field of view. With your view position behind your ship (especially if it can be zoomed way out) you can see more of the combat field than your pilot could possibly see (even if he was a real pilot really sitting there with real peripheral vision). The best way to experience this is to find a game that fully supports both a first person and third person view.
Freelancer is good for this, you can sit in your cockpit or you can sit way way back behind your ship. The external view confers so much advantage in that game that it feels silly to play it any other way. It is so much easier to track where your enemies are at any given moment that to play in cockpit view feels like deliberately playing with your eyes closed.
If a combat-enabled external view was added to ED I wouldn't have any trouble resisting the temptation to start using it, but that's because I don't PvP. If I was into PvP there is no way I would voluntarily give my opponent that much advantage. Doing that, you might as well just disable your shields and let them have at you.
IYHO of course.
I'm out exploring 1000+ly from Sol and I'd like to get some nice cockpit/Hudless images at times. I have two choices according to you:-
1) Take a Sidewinder.
2) Take a Clipper (or Anaconda?).
I didn't fancy doing that, so you're saying just because I wanted to take a "better" ship for the job, I should somehow not be able to take nice screenshots? That doesn't sound like "ermergent gameplay" to me. More an annoyance.
As for taking a shot of my own ship infront of a view? If we simply "pretend" the view is obtained via a drone, where does the argument go? The result is no different at all, it's just not dressed up so well. Are we really being that Elitist about things now?
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Yeah, that does sound like a lot of fun. Hey guys, I'm 2500 ly away from the nearest outpost. Come take my picture! ... I'll just...wait...here... ooh, look, some emergent thumbs! I guess I'll twiddle them for a couple days.
Ah, now im starting to see where you guys are coming from, its all about being handed it on a plate rather than having to work for it and maybe make some tough choices.
Well, I'd still rather have to work for it and have to make choices about ship/loadout etc rather than just being handed a debug tool on a plate.
Indeed, the vast distances we're dealing with kind of negate the immersion angle in favour of the "finally I can pictar" angle. You can ask other people to take your holiday snaps but they're usually someone next to you, not someone on another continent.
This is especially good stuff for explorers, for whom a big part of the game is screenies of distant and lonely deep-space things of coolness that they can send back to us coreworld suckers. They can finally not need to figure in canopy strut placement as a primary consideration for ship selection.
Can't speak for anyone else, but personally it's about playing a game and enjoying it.
But let's consider your comment...
Taking a cockpit/HUDless screenshot
Your suggestion is, "I'd still rather have to work for it and have to make choices about ship/loadout etc rather than just being handed a debug tool on a plate."
How is taking a Sidewinder out instead of an Asp backing up your statement? In the case of my Asp, I've had to "work" for weeks to save up for it, where as the Sidewinder would have been far far cheaper.
How is being forced to take a Sidewinder out on a long exploration trip solely so you can take such shots about "having to make choices about ship/loadout." I want to take an Asp exactly because I've made a considered wise choice about my ship and loadout. Your suggesting I should have to completely go against that wisdom just because of my F10 results?
Taking a Selfie
If FD had fully implement a drone which you could fly around your ship and then you could press F10... How would the resultant image(s) be any different to the suggested "debug camera". Are you being to fickle that you don't like the option because it's basically not described as a "drone"? How is the outcome any different? Does it simply need to be dressed up more for you to accept it?
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Really? For a screenshot? I get that argument when it comes to "proper" gameplay aspects, but simply to take a photo, come on, you're taking the "on a plate" argument to a whole new level of crazy!
I do appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think it's really valid just for screenies. They should not take great effort (IMHO of course) or involve choice of ship to that degree - they're just screenshots!
Maybe if/when the photo competitions from the DDA come in they can pimp the system some more - add some real gameplay.
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Camdrones will be cool, I can think of a bunch of fun things to do with them, but right now there are thousands of pilots who would like to finally look at their paintjobs without being parked in Outfitting, and get a decent shot of that space station or quadruple-star system they found without needing to get a ship with a bigger window to do it. There's simply too much that people want screenies of to keep this till it's fully polished, when they can offer this to us right now.
The Adder certainly benefits from this, as it has one of the worst cockpit views of any ship, though operationally it's pretty decent in its range. Since we can't press our faces against the glass, it's nice that we've been offered a way to get clean shots. Also, you can pretend that the drones right now are just really really really small.
I'm extremely grateful for debug camera. I don't mind not being able to control my ship. As a matter of fact, I for one can't see using a third person camera during a fight. I mean that's what the scanner and radar is for. I've tried 3rd person in dcs once, but it confused the crap out of me. But given the opportunity to take space selfies with celestial objects makes me giddy. XD
The video folks won't be happy about not having control of their craft... They'll simply need to continue using their existing methods though.
Guess we'll find out next week
you kidding right? From the newsletter - "The solution you’ll find in Wings offers limited control of the camera outside your ship and confers no advantage to gameplay; it’s there for you to admire your beautiful spacecraft and take shots like the one below. " Limited camera control - you really think we will be able to fly everywhere with it? lol
External views of the ships coming March (Third person ?) External views of the ships coming March (
Are they doing the camera thing as third person, didn't read the letter that far down..
Its welcomed anyway.
Are they doing the camera thing as third person, didn't read the letter that far down..
Its welcomed anyway.
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