External View [A definitive discussion]

[Tinman]

Personally, I have no problem with that. So long as it can take full-screen video that can be viewed outside the game, then it's win/win and we're all good.

I don't know about video, but taking photos this way has already been talked about in the DDF.

From the DDA:

I’d like to gauge player interest in a community driven photography contest, which would be another way of explorers earning money.

• Players can take photographs (essentially screenshots) from their view ports (with and without cockpit and GUI etc)
  • Player photographs can be submitted to a regular photography contest
    • Players can only submit one photograph each
  • Players can vote on a selection of the best photographs
  • The player(s) who get the most votes wins the competition
    • The winner gets a (in game) cash prize (plus prizes for 2nd 3rd most weird etc.)
    • The photograph (and other user submissions) will be used in appropriate places in the game (billboards, news papers, etc.)

 

[Tinman]

Fully agree with this. I don't want a God's-eye view of the battlefield, but having the ability to look at something beautiful and take pictures of it without the cockpit in the way hurts no one and is very easy to introduce into gameplay--and very realistic.

You can already do this in the Alpha...just look up.

 

[NeilF]

In other words...there might be a remote controlled drone you can use, but you are still going to control it by sitting in the cockpit and watching a screen while doing it.

And if this screen is 20% of your monitor/view... 50% of your monitor... or 99%? What's the real difference? And most importantly, surely most/all of the same issues and dilemmas exist?

So what's the harm in discussing these dilemmas (constructively)?

If this feature gives us the ability to in effect have an external view, then great - As long as the view is big enough to enjoy, and screenshots via it have the ability to be full screen, surely that's good!? And we're all happy?

 

[JeffRyan]

This thread is bad form...

 

[NeilF]

This thread is bad form...

*sigh*

Personally I'd suggest wading into a thread - that's attempting to be constructive (be it successful or not) - to do nothing more than have an nonconstructive dig is bad form.

But this is the internet of course, so it's to sadly be expected at times :S

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

And if this screen is 20% of your monitor/view... 50% of your monitor... or 99%? What's the real difference? And most importantly, surely most/all of the same issues and dilemmas exist?

So what's the harm in discussing these dilemmas?

Again, if you simply don't want to participate, don't...

Harm is because it's beating same old facts all over again, in some vein attempt to change FD mind on something. It increases noise and lessens clarity for those who are not so knowledgeable about current state of ED.

Facts are here - it is highly likely there will be third person view in form of drone, you will be able to fly it remotely trough video feed which will be integrated in cockpit. Now, at what level and how it will look like no one knows. However I really doubt FD will spend their dev time to create camera drone and then won't allow you view data from it fully - you probably will be able to do it. However, remember, that you won't be able to do anything else. No piloting ship, no docking, etc.

That's all we know atm, and frankly, this and other threads has been about completely different things. Mostly it is about "why not offering 3rd person view without restrictions because of x and y and z". In my opinion, such discussions had a point year ago, not now.

 

[NeilF]

You can already do this in the Alpha...just look up.

RE: Taking a screenshot with the cockpit/hud - I recall seeing that being done. Can you remind me how?

 

[NeoRacer]

Whats the point in having an external view when you cant do anything with it? In that case, might as well just have a model view of your ships in the menu and not even bother to see it in game. External views have been a part of gaming since whenever it was possible to do. Just because the original Elite didn't have it due to technical limitations, trying to impose that on a 21st century title is silly. There is a large community of people who love to make movies from the games they play and to totally deny them or try to fob them off with a useless drone view is actually insulting. Like I said there will be a huge 'HUH?!?!??' when the game reaches the wider public audience. It doesn't take a huge amount of dev time to implement a view system either, especially for the geniuses at FD since they did it on the Amiga games!
Such a beautiful game and we only get to view it from the cockpit? What a travesty...

Harm is because it's beating same old facts all over again, in some vein attempt to change FD mind on something. It increases noise and lessens clarity for those who are not so knowledgeable about current state of ED.

Facts are here - it is highly likely there will be third person view in form of drone, you will be able to fly it remotely trough video feed which will be integrated in cockpit. Now, at what level and how it will look like no one knows. However I really doubt FD will spend their dev time to create camera drone and then won't allow you view data from it fully - you probably will be able to do it. However, remember, that you won't be able to do anything else. No piloting ship, no docking, etc.

That's all we know atm, and frankly, this and other threads has been about completely different things. Mostly it is about "why not offering 3rd person view without restrictions because of x and y and z". In my opinion, such discussions had a point year ago, not now.

 

[Rog]

FD have said that they aren't going to provide the arcade above and behind view.

That's good, because no-one is asking for it!

Again:

It would be helpful if the 'no' camp (perfectly entitled to their opinion) could specifically, clearly state what they are objecting to.

 

[J.T.Kirk]

You can already do this in the Alpha...just look up.

I would prefer if it was actually in the gameplay--I don't want to have to look up to take screenshots. I don't want to take screenshots. I want to take pictures and videos without breaking the immersion--like any real explorer who explores space would. I want to discover unusual things and have photos and videos of it on my ship--not to have them in my screenshots folder. I think E: D should have something like a camera mode. All our pictures and videos should be available in game, in the ship's computer. That would be realistic and very immersive.

Otherwise, I have no interest in 3rd person view, and certainly not in combat.

 

[Tinman]

And if this screen is 20% of your monitor/view... 50% of your monitor... or 99%? What's the real difference? And most importantly, surely most/all of the same issues and dilemmas exist?

The difference is once again about how you experience the game. As long as they stick to their vision (from the eyes of the COMMANDER) I'm fine with it. If they suddenly implement an external "god like" view that doesn't make sense I'm not.

So what's the harm in discussing these dilemmas (constructively)?

There isn't any harm in doing that, no.

If this feature gives us the ability to in effect have an external view, then great - As long as the view is big enough to enjoy, and screenshots via it have the ability to be full screen, surely that's good!? And we're all happy?

Yes, that would be good. Haven't said anything else.

 

[NeilF]

Harm is because it's beating same old facts all over again, in some vein attempt to change FD mind on something. It increases noise and lessens clarity for those who are not so knowledgeable about current state of ED.

Facts are here - it is highly likely there will be third person view in form of drone, you will be able to fly it remotely trough video feed which will be integrated in cockpit. Now, at what level and how it will look like no one knows. However I really doubt FD will spend their dev time to create camera drone and then won't allow you view data from it fully - you probably will be able to do it. However, remember, that you won't be able to do anything else. No piloting ship, no docking, etc.

That's all we know atm, and frankly, this and other threads has been about completely different things. Mostly it is about "why not offering 3rd person view without restrictions because of x and y and z". In my opinion, such discussions had a point year ago, not now.

You could well be right. But given the number of these discussions, I do feel a single post/thread that tries to summarise it might be useful. I fully expect with/without this thread, the same topic will come up again and again.

If when it does, a link can be given to the OP in their thread, then surely that might help?


As for the "drone" approach - I expect that is the way they will go. My only concern is in an attempt to maintain "realism" it might fall foul of not achieving what many people want from it - ie: Easy, friendly external views while going about their general business in ED.

But you've raised a good point in that my OP clearly does not have a section on "what we do know". I will attempt to address that! Tinman produced a nice set of quotes which might prove a good starting point!

 

[noodle]

Harm is because it's beating same old facts all over again, in some vein attempt to change FD mind on something.

I know you don't mean any harm, but you're effectively trolling these threads. You're entitled to your view - no problem with that. But if you don't want to constructively engage with the discussion at hand, then either don't post, or complain to the mods if you don't think the threads are being managed properly.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Whats the point in having an external view when you cant do anything with it? In that case, might as well just have a model view of your ships in the menu and not even bother to see it in game. External views have been a part of gaming since whenever it was possible to do. Just because the original Elite didn't have it due to technical limitations, trying to impose that on a 21st century title is silly. There is a large community of people who love to make movies from the games they play and to totally deny them or try to fob them off with a useless drone view is actually insulting. Like I said there will be a huge 'HUH?!?!??' when the game reaches the wider public audience. It doesn't take a huge amount of dev time to implement a view system either, especially for the geniuses at FD since they did it on the Amiga games!
Such a beautiful game and we only get to view it from the cockpit? What a travesty...

As you got explained, it is their design decision, it is part of their vision about the game and has been for months.

Also Alpha backers videos indicates you can make very beautiful videos already without camera drones. People will learn how to work with limited options.

 

[Tinman]

I would prefer if it was actually in the gameplay--I don't want to have to look up to take screenshots. I don't want to take screenshots. I want to take pictures and videos without breaking the immersion--like any real explorer who explores space would. I want to discover unusual things and have photos and videos of it on my ship--not to have them in my screenshots folder. I think E: D should have something like a camera mode. All our pictures and videos should be available in game, in the ship's computer. That would be realistic and very immersive.

I think that's the plan...see post 59...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I know you don't mean any harm, but you're effectively trolling these threads. You're entitled to your view - no problem with that. But if you don't want to constructively engage with the discussion at hand, then either don't post, or complain to the mods if you don't think the threads are being managed properly.

I constructively engage with discussion, pointing out that most of ideas are a) too late b) don't fit with vision of the game. Yeah, that's disappointing message to some people here, but that's not trolling

 

[Rog]

As you got explained, it is their design decision, it is part of their vision about the game and has been for months.

Also Alpha backers videos indicates you can make very beautiful videos already without camera drones. People will learn how to work with limited options.

Hi Pecisk, could you please explain clearly what your specific objections are?

As it stands, I'm at bit of a loss. It's probably me being thick...

 

[J.T.Kirk]

I think that's the plan...see post 59...

I hope so, but it's worded quite vaguely and I'm not sure all our pictures would be available in game, and I'm not sure we can film videos in game. If we can't, it would be immersion-breaking for me.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Hi Pecisk, could you please explain clearly what your specific objections are?

As it stands, I'm at bit of a loss. It's probably me being thick...

I have no objections with current plans about handling 3rd person view in ED.

My objections, however, is regarding sort of "carpet bombing" forums with threads about 3rd person view.

I try to ignore most of posts to keep calm and avoid rush posts, however sometimes I strongly disagree and I provide answer why I do so.

 

[noodle]

I constructively engage with discussion, pointing out that most of ideas are a) too late b) don't fit with vision of the game. Yeah, that's disappointing message to some people here, but that's not trolling

You mostly say "it's not going to happen", "it's too late", etc. etc. That contributes nothing to this discussion. As I understand it, we're trying to arrive at a sensible consensus regarding what people want. That's the conversation you should be contributing to if you're participating in this thread. Whether FD do or don't ultimately implement that consensus is entirely up to them.