External View [A definitive discussion]

[streki]

I you add up the yes and no poll it clearly seams that most people don't

It depends how you view the figures...for example:

Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat = 50.47%

Therefore "yes" is a clear (single option) winner.

Of course, Its not going to kill me if 3rdPP doesn't ever go in to the game, but its a move that may invite criticism from reviewers, and that's not good press. There are people out there who will not buy the game based upon the lack of 3rdPP....that's a loss of revenue....that's less money in the pot for further development.....everybody loses.

 

[QuantumTron]

I'm not fussed about 3rd-person view drones, to be honest. If they're implemented then groovy.

What I'd love to do (and I've mentioned this in similar threads before), is replay a sequence I was in, after the fact, in 3rd person. A few games have this I believe.

That wouldn't break immersion as far as playing the game goes, solves the problem of using 3rd-person views as a tactic, and would allow for beauty shots - especially if you could move the 3rd-person replay POV around.

Scenario : you've just been in an epic fight where either you got blown up or your opponent did. Hit the aforementioned Replay function and replay the sequence, positioning the POV to take a snapshot of the moment something blew up.

What's not to like?

^^^-- no one seems interested in my scene replay idea? It'd be nice to get feedback on that.

 

[Ironfist]

It depends how you view the figures...for example:

Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat = 50.47%

Therefore "yes" is a clear (single option) winner.

Of course, Its not going to kill me if 3rdPP doesn't ever go in to the game, but its a move that may invite criticism from reviewers, and that's not good press.

But overall the majority voted in a "Yes or No" poll voted no.

It's a slightly awkward poll given that fact that a yes/no poll has 6 options.
but I guess well all see the facts in the statistics that we want to see.

 

[Tomtom]

^^^-- no one seems interested in my scene replay idea? It'd be nice to get feedback on that.

Well, I'm all for that sort of thing. Better still would be the ability to load the replay data into an editor (separate program called Eliteirector perhaps?) with full camera control, lighting tweaks, slo-mo etc. etc. then we could all make our own high quality sci-fi movies... E could be the machinima enthusiast's dream come true!

 

[streki]

But overall the majority voted in a "Yes or No" poll voted no.

Or to put it another way:

TOTAL VOTING NO :101.25% (will buy the game)
TOTAL VOTING YES :64.17% (may not buy the game)

(assuming the the above figures would also roughly represent the views of potential players who have not yet committed to purchasing)

That's a bucket load of folks who may not buy....

....that's a loss of revenue....that's less money in the pot for further development.....everybody loses.

 

[Ironfist]

Or to put it another way:

TOTAL VOTING NO :101.25% (will buy the game)
TOTAL VOTING YES :64.17% (may not buy the game)

(assuming the the above figures would also roughly represent the views of potential players who have not yet committed to purchasing)

That's a bucket load of folks who may not buy....

....that's a loss of revenue....that's less money in the pot for further development.....everybody loses.

That's a very large assumption to make for financial marketing research.

Luckily FD & DB are very committed to make a game they want and I'm sure they know enough about making and marketing computer games.

I don't think they will be selling out to every idea that might lose them some revenue

 

[Reidquat]

Its a terrible poll, first there should be a poll: should we have some sort of 3rd person cam/drone/view? if the poll votes yes then a subsequent poll about implementation should be created. This one just muddies the results based on the motivation of the voter.

Its a multiple choice poll. so someone set against it is likely to click all 3 no reasons whereas someone who only wants it for non-combat just clicks one, adding them up counts peoples votes multiple times. Yes is the winner here, more than half of the people that voted clicked yes, non-combat. only ~ 1/3 click any/all of the no options.

 

[Ironfist]

Its a multiple choice poll. so someone set against it is likely to click all 3 no reasons whereas someone who only wants it for non-combat just clicks one, adding them up counts peoples votes multiple times. Yes is the winner here, more than half of the people that voted clicked yes, non-combat. only ~ 1/3 click any/all of the no options.

As i said

but I guess well all see the facts in the statistics that we want to see.

I guess were all right

 

[streki]

I really don't see why 3rdPP is such a hot topic.

Don't want it ? Don't use it.

Want it ? fill your boots.

I haven't seen a convincing argument for not including it in the game.



(Edit: I'm talking about external ship view, not back of my own head view.)

 

[Armour]

You are the pilot, and the pilot is a human, as far as we know. Humans can't see the back of their own heads without external aid, so why should your in-game equivalent be any different?

My view on drones is as follows:

You should also be able to store/deploy multiple drones that show you from all angles.

You should set a drone's min/max viewing distance and tracking targets before deployment. The drones should be able to track you, or whichever ship you are currently targetting, or whoever fires at you - or even automatically get into the right position to track multiple targets simultaneously. Some might be set to mobile views, so they can follow you for chase and over-the-shoulder shots, and some would be set to be static for panning stuff.

However, you should only be able to view any of the drone footage once the drones have been safely returned to your ship, so the AV data can be uploaded to your ship computer. Drones should not be indestructible, in fact they should be tiny and flimsy and cause miniscule/no damage to be taken upon collision. There should always be the danger that the footage could be lost/destroyed. Not everyone will want you recording them.

Once the data is uploaded to your ship computer, you should be able to select the desired resolution and the FOV (from pinhole to panoramic). All drones would pickup a full 360 degree view (in 16K?) by default, and you should be able to narrow that down to what you want to view once you have the footage.

You could add colour gradients, filters etc - but that stuff could and should probably be done in a video editing package out of game.

Perhaps you can sell footage of combat zones or other injected events to the news feeds or to the factions, and add "reporter" or "spy" to your resume?

 

[aDuz]

I really don't see why 3rdPP is such a hot topic.

Don't want it ? Don't use it.

Want it ? fill your boots.

I haven't seen a convincing argument for not including it in the game.



(Edit: I'm talking about external ship view, not back of my own head view.)

indeed

 

[NeilF]

You are the pilot, and the pilot is a human, as far as we know. Humans can't see the back of their own heads without external aid, so why should your in-game equivalent be any different?

My view on drones is as follows:

You should also be able to store/deploy multiple drones that show you from all angles.

You should set a drone's min/max viewing distance and tracking targets before deployment. The drones should be able to track you, or whichever ship you are currently targetting, or whoever fires at you - or even automatically get into the right position to track multiple targets simultaneously. Some might be set to mobile views, so they can follow you for chase and over-the-shoulder shots, and some would be set to be static for panning stuff.

However, you should only be able to view any of the drone footage once the drones have been safely returned to your ship, so the AV data can be uploaded to your ship computer. Drones should not be indestructible, in fact they should be tiny and flimsy and cause miniscule/no damage to be taken upon collision. There should always be the danger that the footage could be lost/destroyed. Not everyone will want you recording them.

Once the data is uploaded to your ship computer, you should be able to select the desired resolution and the FOV (from pinhole to panoramic). All drones would pickup a full 360 degree view (in 16K?) by default, and you should be able to narrow that down to what you want to view once you have the footage.

You could add colour gradients, filters etc - but that stuff could and should probably be done in a video editing package out of game.

Perhaps you can sell footage of combat zones or other injected events to the news feeds or to the factions, and add "reporter" or "spy" to your resume?

While that solution would be popular with some, I don't think it would be popular with many players who simply want to experience the events happening real times from a more suitable/enjoyable view point.

The idea of having to go back later to see something that's now passed I suspect will kill the moment for many.

That's my take on it anyway...

 

[wulimaster]

we need external views

the ability to view the universe from outside your ship is essential to me...gives you a better idea of the scope of the scale of things like the entry to space stations...much bigger than it looks from inside your cockpit.

would love to get rid of the dashboard entirely and have some HUD items in the view. i don't understand why so many are against this

 

[aDuz]

the ability to view the universe from outside your ship is essential to me...gives you a better idea of the scope of the scale of things like the entry to space stations...much bigger than it looks from inside your cockpit.

would love to get rid of the dashboard entirely and have some HUD items in the view. i don't understand why so many are against this

its the "this game is not for you crowed" that want to take ED away into a corner and not share with anybody and say anything they don't like is breaking the immersion. the same people that think save/quit solo to avoid pirates and bounty is a good thing. it will lead to player driven evolution, economics and expansion of the game being thrown out the window

piracy and bounty hunting will only ever work vs AI if they have it thier way

sorry for going off topic but these people really niggle at me with pigheaded 1 sided views and i feel they wont ever let this game get off the landing pad.

external views could quite easily be done, forcing the player to not be able to deploy hard points or jump.
and if it breaks your immersion just don't use it.

besides it can already be done with head tracking exploits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRx358vvz8

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

its not as simple as that though.

solo ofline I could not care less what anyone does.

online IF FD can promise us that no ingame advantage can be conferred by exploiting external views then equalliy I do not care.

but what I absolutely do not want, and am v afraid of happening is something like warthunder arcade mode.

WarThunder is a game with brilliant cockpit recreations, and the game is superb in there..... but no one uses them because you get asskicked by everyone and their dog who are using 3rd person view which offers massive FOV and an accross the board advantage.

I agree, so long as there is NO ingame advantage to 3PV which would ultimately push everyone to use it then I would personally be happy to use or not use as I see fit.

but that is easier said than done. look at mechwarrior online for another example of magic external view mucking it up for many.

ultimately however it does not matter how pig headed you, I or any other fan is, it all comes down to what do FD want.... and IF you think they are stupid and are ruining the game, well, then more fool you for backing the game.

right from the get go FD have been clear this game has been from a commanders eye only.... indeed it is only very recently that even the hint that we MAY get more has been bought to the table.

 

[aDuz]

IF you think they are stupid and are ruining the game, well, then more fool you for backing the game.

i never said that for starters.
i have no problems with being viewed from commanders eye. but the argument for it breaking immersion is flawed.
the ships radar IS a limited 3rd person view of player ship and the environment, providing information of every ship/station 3d. it would be simple to make it so falcon delacy or who ever had made a vr unit/module that is capable of converting radar data into a virtual reality module that can be viewed at any time. the same tech they use for the galaxy map

it would seem far more plausible to convert radar data than use drones in the future. whats next laser drones? will they be immersion breaking?

btw war thunder is an arcade game, it is no way near a realistic combat flight sim

 

[drillerman]

Outside View.

Hi,
Are there any outside views. I can't seem to see any key bindings for them. I assume there must be?
Thanks

 

[Cody]

External views, of a sort, are possibly planned for later.

 

[Studders86]

I think i would prefer it if i didnt have the option to see the external view. I missed it at first but im quite used to it now. Its more realistic not to include this option too.

 

[drillerman]

External views, of a sort, are possibly planned for later.

Oh ok thanks. Then whats the point of buying "weathering" for your spaceship if you can't see it?