External View [A definitive discussion]

[NeilF]

Now let's imagine our pilot trying to control their vehicle in real time through the POV of such a thing without it (or the pilot's ship) hitting an asteroid/nav beacon/dogfighting opponent/station, or getting shot out of space by a wind-up merchant.

Those all sound life very good nerfs that would prevent its used when it really should not be. Nice!

What kind of propulsion system does it use? How much fuel? How do you refuel them?

Duracell Ultras.

Does the c.3300 version use any technology that might be considered AI to operate autonomously? AI is banned in the Elite universe.

What's you definition of AI? A drone being controlled by the pilot doesn't seem to fall into this?

If you can see the footage real-time, then it stands to reason that someone else should be able to watch it too - the signal is being broadcasted, after all.

It's a close range hand wavium transmission!

When you get picked off because someone saw you hiding out behind an asteroid, autonomous real-time camera drones might not seem like such a good idea.

a) How would they know to look behind the asteroid you're behind with their drone that is only few tens of meters away from their own ship? And even so, they've flown their own ship to that asteroid to then use the drone to look around it? Sounds like a nice idea
b) Have you played ED, how often have you hidden behind an asteroid?


And let's not forget, the suggestion is, while using the external view you will be at a combat disadvantage (eg: no HUD etc), with possibly a long delay getting in/out of the view. You could be in external view, and not even see the two ships approaching on your scanner that you would in the cockpit!

Let's leave to Frontier to tinker with the solution. If they find one that fits great. If they don't, it will of course be a real shame, but so be it. Personally, I think a nerf'd view can easily fit in nicely!

 

[Robert Maynard]

And let's not forget, the suggestion is, while using the external view you will be at a combat disadvantage (eg: no HUD etc), with possibly a long delay getting in/out of the view. You could be in external view, and not even see the two ships approaching on your scanner that you would in the cockpit!

While the ship with the drone deployed may be at a combat disadvantage, it is unlikely that the rest of the Wing are sleeping.... They would see the other ships approaching.

 

[Michael Brookes]

But AI was banned in the Elite universe, so who is controlling what in this external view scenario? Surely some AI would be required?

That's not strictly true - it's machine sentience that is outlawed.

Michael

 

[NeilF]

While the ship with the drone deployed may be at a combat disadvantage, it is unlikely that the rest of the Wing are sleeping.... They would see the other ships approaching.

You'll need to better explain your point I think?

 

[Robert Maynard]

You'll need to better explain your point I think?

Any disadvantage to a single ship would be nullified if the ship is working as part of a group.

 

[NeilF]

Any disadvantage to a single ship would be nullified if the ship is working as part of a group.

Don't get it? So the example previously mentioned was a ship flying to an asteroid and using a drone to look around it a bit, attempting to find someone else hiding there?

If there's a group of people working togethor then why even mess about with the drone? Just fly around the asteroid and look?



If we do stick to the 1vs1 scenario, of course while the first player goes to the asteroid and deploys his drone to gain a little look around the asteroid, if the second player spots this, he can simply fly up most likely in the knowledge the other player is at a huge disadvantage - Can't see him approaching on scanner and may have a delay docking the drone etc.

 

[wstephenson]

If we do stick to the 1vs1 scenario, of course while the first player goes to the asteroid and deploys his drone to gain a little look around the asteroid, if the second player spots this, he can simply fly up most likely in the knowledge the other player is at a huge disadvantage - Can't see him approaching on scanner and may have a delay docking the drone etc.

Agreed - like any other equipment choice, putting a drone on your ship excludes other equipment, so in your 1v1, all other things being equal, perhaps the guy hiding behind the rock has equipped a holographic camouflage module in that slot and your drone will fly right past. Or has exhaust baffling and is already slipping stealthily away, because he saw you coming. Give us all drones, I say, and lots of other toys, and let gameplay sort it out. Just don't add arbitrary limits like view switch delays because of hypothetical balance problems.

Myself, the thought gliding through hostile space in my Anaconda, the ACC Epsilon, with a picket line of scout drones extending my sensor range and a belly full of Manta combat drones in case of trouble feels like the perfect way to do high-level one man and his ship ED play.

 

[Skeetorius]

Really?

The seems like a quick fix right. In many other games I have played over the year you hit F8 or F9 or one of the other F keys to pull up a quick 3rd person view. Something that fixes the craft and allows you to rotate around it with the mouse for a quick external view. Not to be used in combat. No crosshair. I'm using the DK2 and must say that the "breaking the immersion" excuse is not that good of an excuse. I constantly adjust the DK2 on my face after long use. Which breaks the immersion more? Light coming in through the foam? Adjusting for comfort on occasion? Third person external viewing?

Make no mistake. I am not suggesting a 3rd person view with crosshair for combat. No. Just something to have a look at the outside of the craft, assist with navigation in roid fields. Make some really in game capture videos. Lots of other great reasons to implement this. It's really just an option right? If you want a quick view outside, use it. If not, because of your immersion concerns, then don't push the darn key.

Just a thought.

 

[SmileyMan]

Having just splashed a tenner on a Limited Edition Wireframe Cobra skin, it would be nice to see it somewhere other than the repair bay! As it stands, everyone else gets more enjoyment out of it than I do...

I'm sure it's been suggested before, but as well as a plain-old screenshot button, could it be possible to implement a 'scene-shot' that captures the object information at the time, which could then be loaded in a seperate viewer program, so that the user can compose the perfect scene at leisure, and even render in higher-than-their-PC-can-handle-in-realtime-o-vision, and without compromising gameplay or immersion at all.

The same thing could probably do a movie/burst mode. Flying somewhere pretty, or in the middle of a battle, hit the button and then later on you get to play movie director.

 

[NeilF]

Having just splashed a tenner on a Limited Edition Wireframe Cobra skin, it would be nice to see it somewhere other than the repair bay! As it stands, everyone else gets more enjoyment out of it than I do...

I'm sure it's been suggested before, but as well as a plain-old screenshot button, could it be possible to implement a 'scene-shot' that captures the object information at the time, which could then be loaded in a seperate viewer program, so that the user can compose the perfect scene at leisure, and even render in higher-than-their-PC-can-handle-in-realtime-o-vision, and without compromising gameplay or immersion at all.

The same thing could probably do a movie/burst mode. Flying somewhere pretty, or in the middle of a battle, hit the button and then later on you get to play movie director.

So like a 3d hologram photo which you develop later

 

[Armour]

That's not strictly true - it's machine sentience that is outlawed.

Michael

Is there a difference? (Cue much navel-gazing)

 

[TerranAmbassador]

Is there a difference?

Yes, actually. We have plenty of artificial intelligences right now, even if they're all extremely limited in their ability to sense and react.

But none of them are sapient (which would be the correct term).

 

[Armour]

Yes, actually.

Depends upon your definition of AI, I guess. I tend to think more in terms of generalised strong AI, rather than weak AI - that limited-scope, domain-dependent stuff that is prevalent today. Perhaps our current level of technology would be considered too primitive to be called AI in the 34th century - but bad experiences with strong AI might have lead to a ban even on weak AI (the "slippery slope" argument).

 

[Jaabaa]

View your "own" custom paint job?

It is all well and good offering custom/limited/exclusive paint jobs, but HOW am I supposed to enjoy them?

Others see more of it and more often than I can.

As far as I know, I can only see it in the fitting bay, right? :S

So I'm paying for a paint job for someone else to enjoy?

 

[n0ahg]

It is all well and good offering custom/limited/exclusive paint jobs, but HOW am I supposed to enjoy them?

Others see more of it and more often than I can.

As far as I know, I can only see it in the fitting bay, right? :S

So I'm paying for a paint job for someone else to enjoy?

Do you feel the same way about your car paint job? I can only enjoy the paint on the outside of my car when I stop and get out. I can't enjoy it whilst driver... unless I get caught by a speed camera!

 

[Jaabaa]

Do you feel the same way about your car paint job? I can only enjoy the paint on the outside of my car when I stop and get out. I can't enjoy it whilst driver... unless I get caught by a speed camera!

So when I stop I can some how "get out" and walk around?

How?

 

[n0ahg]

So when I stop I can some how "get out" and walk around?

How?

Not until the 'get out and walk' expansion, but you can look at them in the fitting shop for now. Also I'm not sure if I'd just want to get out of my ship in space

Is this another 'we demand a third person view' thread?

 

[Yaffle]

Merged more external view threads into here.

Please folks - have a quick look around before starting more threads on the same topic.

Cheers!

 

[Troy Havok]

Here are my thoughts on external cameras:

Recon drones. When you hit the button to switch to external camera, it switches to a perspective through the "eyes" of a drone docked in its own bay in the side of your ship, with its own HUD (whatever elements the particular drone is equipped with) and you can fly it, with limited range, with the same type of controls that you use for your ship.
In order to keep the drone, you would then have to dock it with your ship or scoop it into cargo (this *could* render it useless until it is reloaded into the bay again from a station).

The drone itself would be a support subsystem that could be equipped at a station just like any other piece of ship equipment. This gives the added benefit of the possibility of different types of drones. One for scouting asteroids up close to discover and mark mineral deposits, one pure recon (just a flying camera), one for detecting infrared emissions (heat signatures), etc...

So that it would not be too much of an advantage, it could be impossible to regain control of your ship unless you docked the drone in the bay or simply abandoned it (at which time it must be scooped as cargo and is at risk of being stolen by anyone nearby (criminal penalties or no?))

To me this would not only protect the current immersion level of the game, but even enhance it greatly.

 

[Jigsaw]

Drones are too unwieldy. I don't want to play a minigame for half an hour every time I want to take a cool screenshot of my ship in interesting surroundings. Plus a drone probably has HUD elements that I don't want in my screenshots. The external cam needs to be quick, easy and hasslefree.