External View [A definitive discussion]

[PiLhEaD]

+1 from me for external views.

For the life of me I don't get that FDev didn't think to include it from day 1. I don't recall any flight sim without it, yet you'd be suicidal to use it to e.g. land - it's only ever there to enjoy the eye candy.

If this goes live without it, this forum is going to light up like a christmas tree with the retail-release players who paid for custom paintwork but can't see it in flight.

 

[Erna Jedermann]

Simple Idea came in my mind...Play it with a Friend...and you both taking cool Videos of each other and all be happy.....

 

[Deyn]

Simple Idea came in my mind...Play it with a Friend...and you both taking cool Videos of each other and all be happy.....

Requires a) a friend playing E: D as well, b) he needs to be / get to the same system as you, c) still has the cockpit and hud obstructing great parts of the view.

It is a nice workaround for now, but I really would prefer a simple external cam. They could limit it to 1000ft distance max, available in Solo play only, well if they could just introduce a hotkey to deactivate the HUD / Menu in the Outfitting hangar and may be a rotating cam there it would be nice!!! ...and nobody tell me THAT would be an advantage over a human player!

It simply strikes me as totally weird, that we see the first flight/space game I ever had that does not support an external view at least in some way. Why have designers spent so much time on designing these beautiful ships and paintjobs if you never really see any of these? Wouldn't it have been better to put that effort and ressources into more useful things, like more ships, a dedicated economy system, with reliable trading routes, where actual cargo convoys with escorts travel through systems...and so on?

 

[CmdrDanPos]

Requires a) a friend playing E: D as well, b) he needs to be / get to the same system as you, c) still has the cockpit and hud obstructing great parts of the view.

It is a nice workaround for now, but I really would prefer a simple external cam. They could limit it to 1000ft distance max, available in Solo play only, well if they could just introduce a hotkey to deactivate the HUD / Menu in the Outfitting hangar and may be a rotating cam there it would be nice!!! ...and nobody tell me THAT would be an advantage over a human player!

It simply strikes me as totally weird, that we see the first flight/space game I ever had that does not support an external view at least in some way. Why have designers spent so much time on designing these beautiful ships and paintjobs if you never really see any of these? Wouldn't it have been better to put that effort and ressources into more useful things, like more ships, a dedicated economy system, with reliable trading routes, where actual cargo convoys with escorts travel through systems...and so on?

But OT here but are trade route convoys actually going to be in the game at any point?

An external HUDless cam is a great idea though! As with that other thread that was linked a Dev has said they're looking Into this for beauty shots so it's a nonissue for now

 

[Deyn]

Since we are nearing release and the only comment from frontier is: "We look into it. No timeframe" I am a bit anxious it will not be intoduced for release... I could be wrong, but I guess if on release a few thousand customers have this "What? No camera to watch my new ship?" experience, we might see a bit of a discussion on these forums. I know how I felt, wasn't really pleasant... So at least a developer saying if it's going to be the quick fix in Solo play or the full fledged "drone cam" approach would be nice. If they give us a timeframe it would be better.
And if alas, they decide to not implement it, they should be advertising it differently and put a hint to this limitation in the ads. Not everybody is simply seeking a hot dogfight in a space sim.

 

[NeilF]

Looks a little like an external view we'd like to use if you ask me

1m54s in
2m28s in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7jP2drkUXE

 

[dalmar72]

I'm wholly in favour of an external view, and i'd be amazed if they sell 10% of the paint jobs they could without it. I certainly won't buy one until I can see it in flight.

I've played a lot of flight sims and the external views definitely enhance the experience, and no one would ever attempt a landing whilst in an external view, let alone combat, so I do not agree with the 'advantage' argument - and if I did I would simply point out that the 'advantage' is the same for everyone, and so not any sort of 'vantage' - be it an 'ad' or 'disad'.

Exactly this, I was going to buy some paint jobs but then I was like, I can't even see it except in the outfitting screen.. what would be the point.

 

[Blitzwing]

I really really wonder why some people are so opposed to external cameras.
Kinda reminds me of the same discussion in the MWO forum when everyone claimed it would be an unfair advantage. Now you only really see newbies actually fighting in 3rd person since it really cripples you and that blinking camera drone gives your position away even when visibility is the worst.
Yes peeking around Asteroids could be an advantage in certain rare situations but hey we're in the year 3300... camera drones became available to everyone in the early 21st century.
If you want to be stealthy and use External camera - another solution would be that your ship becomes visible on the radar to everyone due to the emissions from camera drones - stealth advantage lost: if you see someone - they see you as well.
Also nobody was asking for a target camera either.

I'm pretty sure no one wants Elite Dangerous to look like this

But rather like this:

... in pretty
and heck - get rid of the UI if you must, people just want to admire the gorgeous views.

Also thinking back... I wonder if anyone ever used external view in Frontier during a dogfight... I pretty much doubt it!

 

[Colonel Kenney]

The original games had external views.. I don't see why this doesn't.

Maybe just lock out the view if hardpoints are deployed? Meaning it can't be used in combat.

 

[letoras]

There are other things in the game other that combat that would make a fantastic use of external cameras.

 

[Borgkube]

how about NO!!!

Why not? Who does it hurt? No one is forcing you to use the external cam. If it offends you, don't use it.

 

[Riedquat]

Looks a little like an external view we'd like to use if you ask me

1m54s in
2m28s in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7jP2drkUXE

Brings a tear of joy to my eye to even imagine it..

 

[NeilF]

Brings a tear of joy to my eye to even imagine it..

It's not suprising this facility (external view) is in the software at least for FD to use. But that doesn't of course change if we'll get it or not...

 

[CMDR Blagbyrn]

Apologies if this has been brought up in this thread, but what if you had a repair drone that you fly remotely from your cockpit? You deploy the drone then press a key and a screen pops up showing the drone's view and your controls override to control the drone so you can repair specific parts of your ship. When you are finished admiring or repairing your ship you either have to dock it or scoop it with the cargo scoop. Of course you would only want to use this while still.

That's actually more what I thought when I heard that the devs planned a contextualized drone view...something that fits with the rest of the game.

 

[FoxTwo]

If the arguement is for "photography", realistically then this option can only be implemented for SP Offline mode. Simply because as long as you're connected ONLINE in any of the group or even solo play, you cannot pause the game.

Photography modes normally freezes the action, lets you move your camera freely for you to take the best shot possible. So this can only be done for SP Offline mode (and I'll be playing SP Offline anyway *grin*)

Examples of games which I think have implemented this very well:

1. Eurotruck Simulator 2
2. Shadows Of Mordor

In an MP environment, that is not realistically possible. So, those who are so paranoid about having "unfair advantage" should be relieved.

Those who fear this will break immersion.... well... just unbind/uncheck/disable this option and you'll never use/see/accidentally trigger it, thus preserving your immersion.

 

[NeilF]

I agree with the polls and the breaking of immersion as well as staying as close to the original concept when possible. Having said this, I think if the option of external viewing was possible in 1984 when Elite first appeared, it would have been in the game.

Beyond this, I would suggest that the "beauty shots" or the "external views" could be incorporated in a somewhat static "external viewing" screen of the game, once you are docked, and only when you are docked at a space station. Say a "repair or maintenance" screen, where you could view your ship, or ships for sale, trade ships, repair ships, upgrade ships, ect...

I would also say that we "are" bringing Elite from 1984 to 2014 and we have already improved the graphics, speed and gameplay, as well as cockpit layout.

Most of my military aircraft sims have similar pages for aircraft loadouts and configurations. I think we have gotten so used to screenshots while flying or in combat, it's hard to give it up and return to a sim that did not have these features.

In the end, I felt the 1984 Elite was lacking in not having a ship upgrade and acquisition screen.

Of course, I spent way too much time running space weed around the galaxy. :S

The poll being the one that the very first line of the entire thread says "PLEASE IGNORE THE POLL! IT'S BROKEN!"?

 

[NeilF]

The "poll" being what everyone has expressed in the entire thread, some 1800 posts. Yes, the visual one at the top is broken, but still shows results that are indicative of the 1800 posts, inaccurate as it may be.

Your point being :S

1) The poll is busted.
2) The options are poor.
3) The poll has been closed for the majority/all of the life of this thread and is simply here due to threads being merged.
4) The poll is busted.

note: The highest no. of votes are for "Yes: a Simple external ship viewer None Combat", which is pretty much what everyone is asking the external view to offer. An external view of the ship, while being nerfed enough to not offer any combat advantage.

 

[Darkoba]

I agree with the polls and the breaking of immersion as well as staying as close to the original concept when possible. Having said this, I think if the option of external viewing was possible in 1984 when Elite first appeared, it would have been in the game.

The ships, stations and planets were wire-frame objects. An 'external view' in 1984 wouldn't have offered much. Besides, don't you think David performed enough miracles with 32K?

In the end, I felt the 1984 Elite was lacking in not having a ship upgrade and acquisition screen.

Of course, I spent way too much time running space weed around the galaxy. :S

I reiterate my previous comment about 32K. And to those who worry about immersion, I ask, did you really play the original? My adrenaline levels were high during play, wire-frame or not; in my imagination, they were not wire-frame.

Didn't trade space-weed, but an awful lot o space-juice passed my lips during play back then ;-)

 

[Azaad]

Walking around your ship, Fly by Camera and External cameras

Dear Spacies,

So many cool moments happened during flight that you wish there was a way to capture the action in cinematic mode. I went through the exit at the space station with a Type 9 incoming (The damn whale is hard to spot going out until it fires the maneuvers thrusters to adjust its telemetry.) Made evasive maneuvers in my ASP (Full upward thrusters with a 35 degrees trim up while throttling down.) Contact with the Type 9; Shields holding at 75%; I could hear my under hull grazing the huge whale... scraping one another.... wow.. sounds erotic

Yet there is no way to capture it.. or see it from the outside! It would be cool if there was a way.

 

[zeq]

FD has taken a stance of favoring immersion on this subject. The idea of a camera drone was passed around a while back, though no specifics came of it. We might hear more soon, though my guess is it will come post release.