FD, I implore you, do not bulldoze over our existing gear and upgrades

[Soliluna]

I would normally agree 100%, however, the recent widely abused engineer hack has me thinking that a new level of power creep would be just fine. Even in 2017, technology marches inexorably forward, making some old technologies obsolete. It's the way of the world. A perpetually renewing basket of dirty laundry.

I'd rather them focus on the ship manufacturing and sales process. I'd like to see a Black Market and Second Hand market for ships that include engineered upgrades and such like that are heavily dependant on where you buy the ship or where it's manufactured.

Engineer upgrades largely trivialise the combat in the game anyway.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

So because a couple bad apples cheated you want to punish the entire community for their crimes? And use tech acceleration as the excuse? No.

How are they being punished? They're not excluded from the new tech, it just means that the Engineering advantage they had is temporarily negated. Your 60Ly FSD will still be a 60Ly FSD.

 

[Mephane]

Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

In the meantime, making all blueprints available by one single g1 mat would at least spread the god rolls.

Let me be clear: I don't mind losing my existing engineer mods due to a potential item reset. I do mind having to engineer new items again. I loathe the process and the prospect of having to repeat it fills me with dread.

 

[Han_Zen]

Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

The power creep is unavoidable, but it's up to FD to chose the grind level for new components.

I doubt is going to be a simple new=better though.

The anti Thargoid meta will probably be different.

 

[Blackcompany]

Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

In the meantime, making all blueprints available by one single g1 mat would at least spread the god rolls.

Agreed.

Especially if that new gear does not have an RNG or wait wall gating system.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Don't often agree with old Punished but this would be wrong direction; most of us didn't exploit and don't want our time taken away because others did.

 

[Crank Larson]

FD, I implore you, do not bulldoze over our existing gear and upgrades

They haven't said, or even implied, that they will. Why do people complain about things that aren't even real?!

 

[Franc Kaos]

Once we have add-on slots on the equipment, it might be a good idea to revisit engineer experimental effects; these could be available also in the form of add-on to put into these slots on your guns, thus allowing you to add the effect to an existing weapon, swap out different add-ons (they would function like modules that you can swap, store, transfer etc. in this regard) etc.

I kind'a like this idea, make them really expensive and have certain negative effects and use them over different modules, not just guns. As for your other worry I don't think Fdev will go down that route. There might be engineering updates to stop your ship going offline when they interdict you, slightly more effective bio weaponry maybe, but (going on a feeling here), I think they're going to be reactive more than aggressive; if you shoot, they'll shoot back - also, isn't the Guardian mystery still ongoing, where's that going to lead?

 

[Punished Mobius]

How are they being punished? They're not excluded from the new tech, it just means that the Engineering advantage they had is temporarily negated. Your 60Ly FSD will still be a 60Ly FSD.

Being forced to RNGineer is considered a punishment in my book...do you really not understand what I am saying though? You are all trying to use the exploits as justification to make anyone who wants to pvp re-engineer their weapons to the new adapt or die meta. People have put considerable time into these things already and the prospect of having to spend even more time just to be able to compete is daunting to even the most die hard losers like myself.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Yep. Scrap the old stuff. Just don't do it at Samsung Galaxy/iPhone frequency.

Better stuff comes out. Old stuff becomes less worthy. Tis the law of the land. FD has the chance to kill a bunch of birds with one stone here. I hope they take the shot

Continually scrapping stuff by ever increasing power creep might seem fine and "cool" to encourage players initially, it is incredibly unhealthy for game development in the long run, both due to the endless clutter that such a methodology leads to (when every new addition has to be sufficiently different to the previous ones, you either get plain weird additions or ever-increasing complexity creep) as well as the fatigue players suffer as all their efforts get undone once a year or so. If you look at some of the longest running games out there that have had incredible amounts of content added, such as Magic: the Gathering, they are very careful to ensure that new content does not invalidate the old as well as keeping new content unique without complexity creep and allowing it to enmesh well with previous content as allowing any kind of creep into the game will spell the beginning of the end unless it's quickly reeled back in.

If you want depth, you don't want to be metaphorically flipping the table over on a regular basis and forcing players into entirely new systems just because they are new and shiny, that just adds complexity without depth; you need to produce a well thought out interconnecting web of elements that introduce meaningful choices such that players can mix and match to suit their own play style.

 

[Surprised Brony]

Yes, I agree with Ziljan.

Unless Frontier will publicly and categorically guarantee the permanent removal of every single sploit god roll from the game, the sooner the current gear is superseded by higher level gear, the better.

Never thought I'd want more grind and power creep, but it's the only way now. Unforseen circumstances.

In the meantime, making all blueprints available by one single g1 mat would at least spread the god rolls.

I agree 100% but can't rep you again.

So you want to punish everyone for the crimes of a few? No. No. No. This is the wrong way to go about it.

I am under the impression that the people complaining about exploits don't actually PVP. Because out of the dozens of people I fight I have yet to run into anyone I could even suspect of cheating.

It's not punishment if the modules aren't wiped. They just wouldnt be the top tier anymore. It's like arguing engineers shouldn't have been added because they raised the power level achievable in-game. It's more progression, which is exactly what engineers added. :/

I feel that this game is far from reaching any levels of power creep and fatigue that we see in MMOs because this would be the first real time it's happened to Elite. And sadly, it's needed.

 

[Truesilver]

Actually RNGineering 2.1 style was such a botched job that on any basis, aliens or no aliens, exploit or no exploit, superseding it would be great for the game.

Look, I've ground this thing as hard as most of us, for a year, but I really think Frontier are likely to make a much better job of it second time around.

I haven't lost faith in Sandro's team, I just think they were new to the multiplayer MMO job. I'm confident a lot of valuable lessons will have been learned.

Loot and Crafting Version 2? Yeah, bring it on, I say.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Has to be done.

i would rather wipe the whole lot than keep on with the power creep esp if the npcs will keep being gimped with only the most minor of non combat mods.

Thargoid tech completely disables current tech so your options are...

keep with what we have but face certain death if we come across thargoids, and once we are destroyed by them we do not get them replaced by insurance


OR trade in for new "anti thargoid tech" which has no ENG boosts but is immune to thargoid disabling tech.

I would accept that. not sure others would but its better than never ending power creep with AI at stock

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I doubt that FD would make the new tech so much better than the current and in effect dismiss engineers - that would be a massive waste of time and resources on their behalf with regards to Engineers.

If anything they will either:

- Make the new tech only work on aliens, which means PvE / PvP-Combat they will be ineffective
- Make the new tech equivalent to current engineered items and link it to some arduous military ranking system (so pick your poison : Engineers or Military - different grind for a similar output)
- They may even introduce new engineer components to tack onto your weapons and link it to the current system

Guess we will find out in due course.

 

[StiTch]

FD, I implore you: definitely bulldoze over our existing upgrades!

 

[Mephane]

They haven't said, or even implied, that they will. Why do people complain about things that aren't even real?!

We have to speak up now. By the time we know what is going to come in terms of what Ed mentioned as "new weapons" it will all be set in stone already.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Being forced to RNGineer is considered a punishment in my book...do you really not understand what I am saying though? You are all trying to use the exploits as justification to make anyone who wants to pvp re-engineer their weapons to the new adapt or die meta.

*shrug* then make the new weapons non-Engineerable (oh Gods, that's a word and a half).

Something has to be done though. The current situation is untenable even if the actual impact of it is minimal.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

war always drives technological advance at a higher pace - in militarily useful areas. its after the war when non military uses start being found, and other tech catches up.

 

[Surprised Brony]

- Make the new tech only work on aliens, which means PvE / PvP-Combat they will be ineffective

I doubt this will happen. It would ruin Open. Those looking for PvP could chance across Thargoids and get wrecked, while those hunting Thargoids would have no chance against other players. This route would be the worst possible solution.

 

[Mephane]

It's not punishment if the modules aren't wiped. They just wouldnt be the top tier anymore. It's like arguing engineers shouldn't have been added because they raised the power level achievable in-game.

That is exactly what I (and others) have been arguing right from the start when details about engineers were announced.

And if I wanted a game where the status quo is regularly raised and you have to grind for new, higher level gear each time, I would play World of g Warcraft.