Firstly, thanks for the thoughtful reply Vasco. It's always good to have a proper conversation about these things.
I do, however, think that your focus on the mining relogging is missing the real issue.
What you consider 'cheating' isn't the problem, it's that Frontier have deliberately introduced credit earning mechanics that dwarf, by orders of magnitude, other methods of earning credits in the game.
The mining income stream, and since the FC patch tritium trading, has massively inflated cmdrs earning potential and that has then been used as the basis for the price of fleet carriers putting it out of reach of Cmdrs on the other career paths to earn their keep.
For myself:
- Before the FC patch I had 2300hrs in game since 2014, mainly combat and missions with some light exploring. That gave me roughly 5.5 billion in credits and assets
- Since the FC patch I've spent between 20 and 25 hours mostly trading tritium with a quarter mining, I've added roughly 8 billion (and listened to some great podcasts, so there was a plus)
I wanted a carrier, but to earn over 100 times the credits by focussing on specific activities? That, to me, is the real problem.
With that in mind I think it's irrelevent whether it's possible to relog to mine sub-surface deposits for 5-600million an hour when you can use mapped mining to earn ~400million an hour, or tritium trading for ~250million an hour (and it was 360+million an hour for a few days after the patch dropped)
It's just different degress of broken when compared to the rest of the ED careers.
Focus your unhappiness on Frontier's unwillingness to address the underlying credit imbalance between careers, and the economy in general, rather than whether it's possible to 'cheat' to earn an extra 20-50% per hour.
First.
It matters to me because i want Elite Dangerous to be a fair and consistent experiance for all players who invest their time and money in this title and its incumbent on Frontier to ensure that this game delivers that.
As above, it's not a fair and consistent experience between careers and hasn't been for the last few years.
I want Elite Dangerous to succeed and for that to continue, Frontier need to be Professional.
Me too o7
Second.
Davs hope and Jamesons cobra as far as im aware (i think there are one or two more sites... the crashed Conda with the Thargoid scan?) are anomalies i admit, and yes Frontier have not nerfed them (wish they would), but these sites seem to be single point locations which players can choose to travel to and exploit. Once it was possible to relog on any planet surface and kill harvest mats from skimmers all day long, To my knowledge Frontier stopped this.
They're not anomolies though:
- re-instancing at combat zones, compromised nav beacons and RES sites to get a better ship spawn
- stacking data scan missions to the same planet site and re-instancing when there to complete
- re-instancing at attacked megaship sites to get the right thargoid spawn or probe/sensor in the cargo hold
- the Obsidian Orbitial missions wanting thargoid commodities, obtained most efficiently by re-instancing at one of several surface sites (a previous credit earning gold rush which they never patched out)
- etc
Relogging is a thing in the game, partly because of how it's built but also because of the ridiculous requirements Frontier have imposed on players in the past and those players then seeking to drastically cut down on the time investment needed.
I would rather it wasn't and the game was better balanced in general but we're way past the point where Frontier are going to change.
I think time is a factor when it comes to a roll back, the SLF/Mining exploit is still fresh so a roll back right now is still possible. For Frontier to roll back the mats gathered from Davs hope and Jamesons cobra which have been going for years now, i doubt it. I guess you could argue for a statute of limitations on individual roll backs... However the Engineering Cheat that gave players god rolls some years back floated around in secret for a long time and Frontier did punish those players when they found out.. But like i said, that exploit was a secret.
That and the billions that a few cmdrs made in 2014 just after launch are the only two times I'm aware they've done a rollback. The language the CM's have used doesn't talk about exploit, bug or cheating for this, they're going to leave it as is.
The SLF/Mining exploit was a flash of use once the knowledge become public and Frontier obviously didnt intend for people to use it once they found out.. which is why Frontier have 'Apparently' patched it out. If Frontier have patched it (intend to patch it) then obviously Frontier do not think that its supposed to happen.. so its an exploit from a bug... so they should Roll back the cheaters who knowingky used it for weeks or maybe months, Frontier should be consistent in their line towards cheating within their product. Protect the brand.
Where is the line between 'cheat' and legitimate earning?
Why is 5-600 million an hour not ok when ~400 million is?
Yes relogging is an exploit but as I've said, people earning an extra 20-50% per hour is not the real problem.
Finally.
Are you happy to see Frontier get lazy on fixing their game? Your language in this section of your posts suggests that maybe you dont like it. But you seem to be here i think to justify whats happened and to be in some regards an apologist. Are you now so exasperated that you have also given up?
I personally want to see this game get better and i think a professional and consistent approach by fromtier on the issue of cheating is a step in the right direction.
Ive not given up on this game... so i will continue to speak up and out.
In some senses I think I have given up. There are so many things I want to see them improve on but I just don't believe that will happen any more. Elite Dangerous is a product Frontier need to make money from, and investing in new content for the base game and Horizons with no way to charge does not make them money.
However, having ways for players to quickly earn enough to buy a fleet carrier and then buy cosmetics for that carrier does. It's not in Frontier's interests to take credits away.
I'm not intending to be an apologist for Frontier, just to acknowledge that the way the game is built makes relogging a thing and that players will take advantage of that to save time unless Frontier put in the extra effort to code it to prevent that happening.
I'm also suprised at how much ire it's generated when it's a fraction more credits per hour compared to the massive disparity between combat/mission earning vs mining earning which I think is the much bigger problem.
Apologies if this is a bit long and rambling, hopefully it's coherent enough.
Cheers o7