ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

What are you going to do with Type 9 that's different than anything that you would do with other ship?

You're missing the point. You kinda contradict youreself: The way you argue, I have to ask you why there are different ships in the game at all rather than only a single ship. Since you can do everything with that ship, no other ships are needed.

When you created your commander, did you accept the default avatar you got without changing it to your liking or not? In either case, why did you? It doesn't matter what your avatar looks like, and it's enough when there is a single avatar because you can everything with the default avatar. It would enough if it looked like a blob just to represent someone sitting in the cockpit so it doesn't look empty. I guess some people like it when they can make their avatar look to their liking and it's fun for them. The way you argue, everyone should have to follow a "progression ladder" so that they get more and more options to make their avatar look to their liking the further they have followed the "progression ladder".

But guess what, I don't care about what you seem to call a "progression ladder" when it means that there is no reasonable way of making progress. I have done that in two of the predecessors of ED and in other games, and I'm done with pointless struggle. I don't even consider making money in ED as progress but as something that gets in the way of what I want to do. At the same time, I enjoy making lots of money, and it doesn't matter if I need more money or not. The game isn't about money at all. It's about doing things that you want to do and having fun doing them. One of the things I want to do is trying out the different ships. And it's more fun for me to fly a T9 instead of a Sidewinder, and generally it's more fun for me to fly medium and large ships than small ones. Some people like the colour green, others like blue. That's just the way it is, and it's totally pointless to argue with a "progression ladder" that would have me struggle to make money for months and years before I can do what I want. I simply won't do it when it's that pointless.

You don't even need to understand this. You can simply accept it. Nobody prevents you from deciding how you want your "progression ladder" to be like. You can do everthing you want in your Sindewinder forever if you prefer that.

Because in Elite for all inents and purposes you are the ship (at least untill Odyssey) - T9 represents some ability at levelling up skill tree that you can unlock after playing the game and gathering coins.

Well, I don't think and don't feel like I'm a ship or represented by a ship. I'm still a pilot, and I can even see myself sitting in the pilot seat while using a ship. Technically, it doesn't make a difference, and technically, it's all no more than pixels in different colours on a screen.

Different ships fly and handle differently and are better suited for some tasks and not for others. I could use a Mamba for trading and a T9 for combat. I could do mining in a Sidewinder. Somehow, I like the T9 better for trading, the Mamba for combat and almost never use a Sidewinder. That doesn't mean I dislike the Sidewinder, it's because I like other ships better. The only ship I dislike so far is the Diamondback Explorer (or Scout?). I feel awfully cramped in it and the thrusters have an awful sound that's blasting my ears.

When you play Assassins Creed, or Witcher, or whatever game that uses this kind of progression mechanics you don't expect to unlock something at the top of the skill tree without considerable investment of time in the game. Why do you think you should be given everything in Elite without effort?

I don't think I should be given everything in ED without effort; I never said that. I'm perfectly fine with having something to do to get something when the time and effort is reasonable. For example, despite there are a lot of things wrong with how this is made, I enjoyed getting a Guardian FSD. It requires a reasonable amount of time and effort, involves doing fun things and some exploring and kinda uncovering a mystery. If I had to struggle for months or years to get one, I wouldn't have done it.

I have also played Asassins Creed (and am still playing it as there are several parts), and there are tremendous differences between ED and Asassins Creed. ED doesn't give the player the information required to sucessfully play the game. Asassins Creed does that. There were only two things in Asassins Creed Origins I had to look up; they were the sun clock puzzle and how to defeat the boss that can be found in the desert and the name of which I don't remember. ED forces me to to look up things online more or at least as much as I can play it; even common things like trade or gathering materials require research using external tools. Without that, ED is basically unplayable.

Another difference is that in AC you have quests you can follow, and they help you in learning how to sucessfully play and guide your progress. ED doesn't have that at all and at the same time, it has much more to learn. (Maybe the Guardian Data research missions could count, and you'll never know about them because there is only one place or so where you get some information. You have to somehow know that they exist and research them from and with external sources.)

In AC, you have a lot of fun just playing (at least I did/have). There is a lot of variety because there are so many different places, and you have to figure out how you want to go about them, which you can do in different ways. Progressing is a side effect of fun gameplay, and it's steady and very reasonable. It's just a great game. In ED, you don't have a lot of fun because you have to struggle for money so you can play the game. There is bascially no variety because the different places are all the same. How you go about trading, combat, exploration and mining is always the same --- do it in a different way and you will fail. Progressing is irrelevant because it means struggling for money with no perspective of getting enough, and having to struggle for money takes the rest of fun you may otherwise have out of it. In ED you never know how to do something and can't figure it out because trying things is forbiddingly expensive, and the lack of information and the missing learning make it more frustrating than anything else.

Asassins Creed is different from ED and has entirely different gameplay, and the "progression ladder" is there in AC and it works fine while it's not there in ED and it doesn't work. In ED, you can consider engineering your ships, getting Guardian modules, the ranks required to get certain ships and getting permits the equivalent of a "progression ladder". Engineering is an awful grind (if you look at the questions threads they made, even the community manager don't like the grind) and Guardian modules is also an awful grind. Both require money so that you can afford doing these things. I don't know about ranks for ships and permits because I don't have any. None of these progressions is a side effect from fun gameplay you would do anyway, so that doesn't compare.

Sorry, ED is a game that sucks badly while Assassins Creed Origins is a great game. ED could be as great or greater and I really wish it would get there; the framework for that is already mostly there.

"Having" a ship is not gameplay.

Exactly! So why shouldn't I get the ships I like quickly so that I can play with them? It still takes time to learn how to use them and what they can do and to equip and to engineer them.

I keep repeating myself, so I don't wonder when I don't reply anymore.
 
Last edited:
Yes go to shipyard, select ship, scroll to third option in addition to Buy and Back which is Test, get taken to a a version of the training mission where you undock jump to a new station and dock but in the selected ship.

Wha? There is no such option to "test". At least not on Xbone.
 
That's not true. I wanted to try out the T9, for example, at the very beginning. Maybe you haven't noticed, but you can't do that unless you have lots of money. At the rate at wich money can be made without getting lucky with mining, there is no point in even trying to get that kind of money from the beginning.
Dude, what the hell are you doing spending all the time in this forum whinging? If you want that T9, start playing and grinding the game for credits so you can afford one later. No point keep whinging here. Time = money. Get on with it, chop chop.
 
You're missing the point. You kinda contradict youreself: The way you argue, I have to ask you why there are different ships in the game at all rather than only a single ship. Since you can do everything with that ship, no other ships are needed.

When you created your commander, did you accept the default avatar you got without changing it to your liking or not? In either case, why did you? It doesn't matter what your avatar looks like, and it's enough when there is a single avatar because you can everything with the default avatar. It would enough if it looked like a blob just to represent someone sitting in the cockpit so it doesn't look empty. I guess some people like it when they can make their avatar look to their liking and it's fun for them. The way you argue, everyone should have to follow a "progression ladder" so that they get more and more options to make their avatar look to their liking the further they have followed the "progression ladder".

But guess what, I don't care about what you seem to call a "progression ladder" when it means that there is no reasonable way of making progress. I have done that in two of the predecessors of ED and in other games, and I'm done with pointless struggle. I don't even consider making money in ED as progress but as something that gets in the way of what I want to do. At the same time, I enjoy making lots of money, and it doesn't matter if I need more money or not. The game isn't about money at all. It's about doing things that you want to do and having fun doing them. One of the things I want to do is trying out the different ships. And it's more fun for me to fly a T9 instead of a Sidewinder, and generally it's more fun for me to fly medium and large ships than small ones. Some people like the colour green, others like blue. That's just the way it is, and it's totally pointless to argue with a "progression ladder" that would have me struggle to make money for months and years before I can do what I want. I simply won't do it when it's that pointless.

You don't even need to understand this. You can simply accept it. Nobody prevents you from deciding how you want your "progression ladder" to be like. You can do everthing you want in your Sindewinder forever if you prefer that.



Well, I don't think and don't feel like I'm a ship or represented by a ship. I'm still a pilot, and I can even see myself sitting in the pilot seat while using a ship. Technically, it doesn't make a difference, and technically, it's all no more than pixels in different colours on a screen.

Different ships fly and handle differently and are better suited for some tasks and not for others. I could use a Mamba for trading and a T9 for combat. I could do mining in a Sidewinder. Somehow, I like the T9 better for trading, the Mamba for combat and almost never use a Sidewinder. That doesn't mean I dislike the Sidewinder, it's because I like other ships better. The only ship I dislike so far is the Diamondback Explorer (or Scout?). I feel awfully cramped in it and the thrusters have an awful sound that's blasting my ears.



I don't think I should be given everything in ED without effort; I never said that. I'm perfectly fine with having something to do to get something when the time and effort is reasonable. For example, despite there are a lot of things wrong with how this is made, I enjoyed getting a Guardian FSD. It requires a reasonable amount of time and effort, involves doing fun things and some exploring and kinda uncovering a mystery. If I had to struggle for months or years to get one, I wouldn't have done it.

I have also played Asassins Creed (and am still playing it as there are several parts), and there are tremendous differences between ED and Asassins Creed. ED doesn't give the player the information required to sucessfully play the game. Asassins Creed does that. There were only two things in Asassins Creed Origins I had to look up; they were the sun clock puzzle and how to defeat the boss that can be found in the desert and the name of which I don't remember. ED forces me to to look up things online more or at least as much as I can play it; even common things like trade or gathering materials require research using external tools. Without that, ED is basically unplayable.

Another difference is that in AC you have quests you can follow, and they help you in learning how to sucessfully play and guide your progress. ED doesn't have that at all and at the same time, it has much more to learn. (Maybe the Guardian Data research missions could count, and you'll never know about them because there is only one place or so where you get some information. You have to somehow know that they exist and research them from and with external sources.)

In AC, you have a lot of fun just playing (at least I did/have). There is a lot of variety because there are so many different places, and you have to figure out how you want to go about them, which you can do in different ways. Progressing is a side effect of fun gameplay, and it's steady and very reasonable. It's just a great game. In ED, you don't have a lot of fun because you have to struggle for money so you can play the game. There is bascially no variety because the different places are all the same. How you go about trading, combat, exploration and mining is always the same --- do it in a different way and you will fail. Progressing is irrelevant because it means struggling for money with no perspective of getting enough, and having to struggle for money takes the rest of fun you may otherwise have out of it. In ED you never know how to do something and can't figure it out because trying things is forbiddingly expensive, and the lack of information and the missing learning make it more frustrating than anything else.

Asassins Creed is different from ED and has entirely different gameplay, and the "progression ladder" is there in AC and it works fine while it's not there in ED and it doesn't work. In ED, you can consider engineering your ships, getting Guardian modules, the ranks required to get certain ships and getting permits the equivalent of a "progression ladder". Engineering is an awful grind (if you look at the questions threads they made, even the community manager don't like the grind) and Guardian modules is also an awful grind. Both require money so that you can afford doing these things. I don't know about ranks for ships and permits because I don't have any. None of these progressions is a side effect from fun gameplay you would do anyway, so that doesn't compare.

Sorry, ED is a game that sucks badly while Assassins Creed Origins is a great game. ED could be as great or greater and I really wish it would get there; the framework for that is already mostly there.



Exactly! So why shouldn't I get the ships I like quickly so that I can play with them? It still takes time to learn how to use them and what they can do and to equip and to engineer them.

I keep repeating myself, so I don't wonder when I don't reply anymore.
It's good you know what you like. Go play something you might enjoy, because clearly ED is not for you. There's far too much you don't like, accept or understand in this game.
 
I have no problem with balancing mining...but come on....

I’m not complaining that LTDs got nerfed, they earned me my Carrier (legitimately, no exploits used), but were too easy to get laser mining and thus worth too much.
The same can be said for Painite (which has funded my Carrier for the next 2 years).

I like the fact that some other refined materials have been buffed (everyone likes variety), and I also agree that Core mined products should be worth more for the extra skill involved....but here lies the problem.

I am currently in a Musgravite hotspot in a Pristine ring. I have prospected over 150 Orange Asteroids ( yes the PWS is working today, although that’s a whole different topic!). NOT ONE SINGLE CORE! Out of over 150???? This can’t be what anyone can call balanced, surely?

I’m all for more skill being rewarded with more money, and I don’t expect every 3rd, or even 10th Orange to be a Core...but not even every 150th, really???

How can you be rewarded for skill when you can’t even find anything to demonstrate your skill on?
As it currently stands anyone finding Cores, are being rewarded for blind luck, not skill.

Please FDev, consider looking into this...
Balancing is not just about monetary value.
You would have better luck checking the ones that are yellow bordering on gold with deep red accents when you get closer or a yellow so bright its got green accents. Orange asteroids have med/high content but no cores.


These two are the same asteroid.


I mentioned previously about an asteroid that just appeared then glowed like a core...the video in the ice ring is it, I was right it just appeared.

Edited for that last bit
 
Core mining is cool and all, but the pulse wave analyzer is still broken: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/19374
When are we getting a fix? It's been 3 whole months now and still nothing.

Maybe they don't fix it to keep us away from mining until they nerfed it to the ground. Just a thought.

And @topic Nice try. Kill the possibility for new players to get greater ships in reasonable times to scare them away.
Buff everything else, and don't nerf things that work. What you get if you nerf mining is people who are rich as hell and new people who don't stay because of annoying grind. I am one of the rich ones and don't mind people to get there fast. The game should feel like FUN not like work!

What are all the whales afraid of? People enjoying the game in a good pace? No one cares about billionaires in a game, because it's a ...... game, not reality.

And the "we change it for you (community) attitude" won't cut it anymore. There are so many things the "holy" community begs for years. And the only things we get is nerfs. Not to mention the super ship color we got for buying the first dlc and therefore supporting you guys years back. And we got a color? One? Serious? Thatdoesn't generate any costs for you and you gave ONE Color? How about a nice pack of colors, some decals and a unique cockpit light color... Oh right, i forgot, you didn't give us Ps4 Players the choice of different cockpitlight colors. Thats PC only.I know, with mods. But why? Players like choices. But hey, instead of giving something back to our supporters, lets nerf again. Because of reasons. Great job guys. Sorry for my rant. But that needed to be said finally.

o7
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You would have better luck checking the ones that are yellow bordering on gold with deep red accents when you get closer or a yellow so bright its got green accents. Orange asteroids have med/high content but no cores.


These two are the same asteroid.


I mentioned previously about an asteroid that just appeared then glowed like a core...the video in the ice ring is it, I was right it just appeared.

Edited for that last bit

Some of the asteroids were glowing brighter Orange than Trumps face but still were nothing.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but it still doesn’t change the fact that they are way too sparse to make it either engaging or enjoyable gameplay. In nerfing laser mining the way that they are and leaving cores virtually non existent, Frontier run the risk of making mining virtually redundant altogether.
I’m sure that is not the intention.
 

Deleted member 192138

D
Is there a timescale for information on the combat balance changes planned?
 
....

Oh right, i forgot, you didn't give us Ps4 Players the choice of different cockpitlight colors. Thats PC only.I know, with mods. But why? Players like choices. But hey, instead of giving something back to our supporters, lets nerf again. Because of reasons. Great job guys. Sorry for my rant. But that needed to be said finally.

o7
Why blame Frontier for PCs being more easily hacked than consoles?
 
Some of the asteroids were glowing brighter Orange than Trumps face but still were nothing.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but it still doesn’t change the fact that they are way too sparse to make it either engaging or enjoyable gameplay. In nerfing laser mining the way that they are and leaving cores virtually non existent, Frontier run the risk of making mining virtually redundant altogether.
I’m sure that is not the intention.
I am pretty sure the intention is that at the end of the balancing the main reason to chose an activity is because you like doing it or you need something only that activity provides with credit earnings being similar for everything.
 
Is there a timescale for information on the combat balance changes planned?
“After this, we intend to look at increasing bounties and solo combat missions in the weeks that follow to meet expected levels.”

-taken from OP

So it could be tomorrow or next week?

Ooooo, tomorrow could be mining part 2 with further nerfs!! 😈😈😈😈😈 ✊✊

Combat will be an interesting one, bounties look to be set to increase but I doubt FD will take into account that you can BH in an E class Sidewinder and steal kills from authority ships...

The arguments this week have already left me feeling somewhat drained and the shouting at clouds is set to continue. 😩
 
Last edited:
Some of the asteroids were glowing brighter Orange than Trumps face but still were nothing.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but it still doesn’t change the fact that they are way too sparse to make it either engaging or enjoyable gameplay. In nerfing laser mining the way that they are and leaving cores virtually non existent, Frontier run the risk of making mining virtually redundant altogether.
I’m sure that is not the intention.
I get what you're saying, I've spent hours and only found a few cores even in hotspots. But what I'm saying is orange is not what you're looking for. Doesn't matter how bright the orange is, in famous words "Its a trap!" The brighter the orange, the greater the trap. You want to look for separate colors entirely. Yellow so bright its got a greenish tint or yellow so deep its more gold with red highlights. Also, if you inspect the asteroid visually, you should be able to see the fissures before you prospect.

I recently spent 5 hrs (due to distractions) mining. I posted the results a few pages back. I'll edit to link the post so you can see what I mean. That last vid was taken during that mining stint.


Edited for the link
 
Last edited:
Useless.

The only way to balanse the game is to make simple thing - make money to be money.
Money are used for exchange. It's a simple idea, isn't it? But why FD tries to ignore this again?
So, players shell be able to sell and buy ships to each other. Of make a gift.
So, materials for engineers can be sold or bought (of given as gifts).
Even settlements should be sold and bought.
And money must not appear from nowhere and wanish to void. And since everything will have it's price - nothing shell appear from nowhere. Goods will appear from game time spent by users, and will be lost in wars. So, there should be no insurance (in current game meaning), because it makes money from nowhere. And ships shell not appear on stations from nowhere.
This (the in-play exchange) will allow the money to balance time used by players. Like in real market an real life.

Sorry. There is no other way to balance the game. You can take any MMO game that lasts log enough and you'll see that it's balance is lost. Old players already have everything and have no goals. Newcomers will never reach the level of older players. Game designers try to fix this, allowing faster start for new players so that they can compet with old players and this ruins the balance completely.

So, to fix balnce and use money for exhange in this game - we can take a look at real world.
Let's compare space ships with current cars and so on.
An entry-level car costs around 10.000, mid-level around 30.000, a business one costs about 100.000, premius costs above 1.000.000.
The idea is that 3 mid-level combat ships will dfinitely kill 1 business-level ship.
And 1 mid-level combat ship will kill 3 entry-level ships.
And 3 business-level ships will overcome a premium one.
So, if you want to make an army of NPC - it's cheaper to use mid-level ships.
But players will use business/premium-class ships for it's comfort and power, but not in place where they can accidently die. Like we don't use party clothes for daily work.

Ships shell be constructed from components developed by factories. And factories shell make components from materials. And materials shell be extracted from ore. And ore must be mined. Of cause, we can assume, for simplicity and additional control levers, that simple ore is mined by NPC (settlements)? And transported by NPC ships. This also means that pirate's activity shell slow down and break completely such ore transfer.

Repair of broken devices shell cost much more. A completely broken mechanism is more expensive to fix than to buy a new one.
In this case, one whould better use an average, non-egineered ship in war zones. But an ultimately fitted and over-engineered ship for special missions (I hope, there will be special missions for new combat/explorer/trader or empite/federation ranks).
 
My question will be this : Do you have ANY plan increasing numbers for commodities in station because atm they are set for max 10 or 20 players at the same time. We'r 13000 just on steam. please fdev , you wanted to balance thing , but please take the number of player in consideration. Atm it is not fun , unless you have 24/7 eyes on the market.
 
Why blame Frontier for PCs being more easily hacked than consoles?


I don't "blame" them for that. I blame them for not give this opportunity to everyone (Pc and Consoles) after they discovered that their supporters, the community, invented this, because they liked it. As if it would have been a big hassle for them to implement this as feature... but implement Arx and paywalls, that was easy enough. I´m sure, they did that "all for the community" as well. /s

But to be fair, i understand that these days mechanics like this are a good way to squeeze a little more cheddar out of games. Hell, i would have paid for cockpitlight colors. And a lot of people said the same thing in forums related to that topic back in the days. But, they never gave us this feature. If i remember correctly, a mod gave a short statement about this, like: maybe later. Never read of it again. This, and some other examples of the "care for their supporters" make me doubt, their plans to "balance the payouts" will have anything to do with that, what we, the community want.

And releated to that, i remember that a lot of people begged for years: Please buff the other methods in Elite to be as profitable as mining. And now: Yeah we heard you. The nerf for mining is coming. But then, then we buff the other stuff. So that everything is equal not profitable and the grind will be unbearable. But maybe they have already a solution for that in mind...

Don´t get me wrong. I love the game. I´ve spent hundreds of hours in the black. And i will support the devs further with the coming dlc.

But that doesn´t mean i am okay with everything they do... or don´t do.


o7
 
I am curious, has anyone noticed/mentioned that in ring hotspots the item the hotspot shows e.g. Benitoite is not present? I spent 2 hours today in a hotspot and got no mineral at all of the hotspot type? Have I been unlucky or has anyone else noticed this?
Also none of the "more valuable" minerals where present either? I accept the need for rebalancing but using 174 Prospecting limpets and not a single ton of materials above approx 10K per ton seems a little odd!

Look forward to seeing if I am the only one?

For info:
Delkar System (Delkar 7 Pristine Metallic ring)
47 Ton Bauxite
42 Ton Rutile
10 Uraninite
25 Lepidolite
35 Gallite
33 Cobalt

I am aware of PWS issue, so obtained using prospector limpets only. No cores and only 3 sub surface deposits.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom