ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing

You need to pay more attention next time you are at Robigo. Not all the passengers are going to Sirius Atmospherics. A lot are, but then it is a local famous tourist attraction so makes perfect sense to me. Secondly you quite often find passengers going to the exact same places or tourist round trips at other stations. Robigo Mines is an Outpost station with low security you will very rarely get scanned there, but will get scanned sometimes at Hauser’s Reach or the stations in Ceos. You need heat sinks and silent running to beat that. As to payment in kind rather than cash. A lot of the passengers are criminals so paying in untraceable commodities might well be better for them.
Dav’s Hope I personally think is useful, particularly for commanders new to engineering as a quick way to get a lot of G1-4 manufactured and some data. Each loop gives 1-3 drops of data and 10 drops of manufactured. You can easily do 30 loops an hour for which at 3 mats for each drop is 90-270 data and 900 manufactured. With that you can start upgrades on some modules and weapons and build up rep with engineers.

I never said that everyone goes from Robigo to Sirius. I have never seen any place that had multiple passenger missions going to the same place except for Robigo and the other one the name of which I can't remember.

Why would I fire a weapon like a heatsink close to or inside a station? That'll probably get me shot down. And silent running doesn't go long enough to dock.

You're assuming that commodities are less tracable than cash.

Davs Hope doesn't have 10 material drops. IIRC were 4 or 5 when I was there and there was always the same material at the same spot, none of them being high grade. I don't remember what the data was, probably only 1 and not 3. And who wants to do 30 loops???? Really, there is no point in going there.
 
I never said that everyone goes from Robigo to Sirius. I have never seen any place that had multiple passenger missions going to the same place except for Robigo and the other one the name of which I can't remember.

Robigo is full of LONG trips. Why anyone would EVER take a mission to take someone to SAG A for $50 Million credits is beyond me. Why is this mission even there? I guess IF you're headed that way...

Why would I fire a weapon like a heatsink close to or inside a station? That'll probably get me shot down. And silent running doesn't go long enough to dock.

Heatsinks drop your heat, thus your "scannable" signature.

Davs Hope doesn't have 10 material drops. IIRC were 4 or 5 when I was there and there was always the same material at the same spot, none of them being high grade. I don't remember what the data was, probably only 1 and not 3. And who wants to do 30 loops???? Really, there is no point in going there.

Dav's Hope has these drops, 3 each item picked up, period. And just about all of these are invaluable in ENG, if not for just easy pickings and trade value. Dav's Hope is one the BEST places in the game actually, for MAT needs. And the MATS are not always the same in each location, each location has a chance of spawning one of two (or three?) types at each location.

Manufactured materials that can be gathered at Dav's Hope:


  • Chemical distillery
  • Chemical manipulators
  • Chemical processors
  • Compound shielding
  • Conductive ceramics
  • Conductive components
  • Conductive polymers
  • Configurable components
  • Electrochemical arrays
  • Flawed focus crystals
  • Focus crystal
  • Galvanizing alloys
  • Grid resistors
  • Heat conduction wiring
  • Heat dispersion plate
  • Heat exchanges
  • Heat vanes
  • High density composites
  • Hybrid capacitors
  • Mechanical components
  • Mechanical equipment
  • Mechanical scrap
  • Phase alloys
  • Polymer capacitors
  • Refined focus crystal
  • Salvaged alloys
  • Shield emitters
  • Shielding sensors
  • Worn shield emitters
 
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We aren’t the bosses of huge corporations that can do industrial scale mining we are owner operators of small ships, the 34th century version of “white van man”, not big important people on the galactic stage.

Huge corporations would have huge automated mining operations in hundreds or thousands of systems. It's like you're growing potatoes in your back yard not being worthwhile because it's much cheaper and easier to buy them at the supermarket. You can still do it for fun, of course. Try to sell your potatoes at the next supermarket and they'll laugh at you.

If you wanted to make money with mining, you would have no choice but to set up and run your own automated mining operation, and it would have to be big enough. Car manufacturers aren't like "Oh hey, let's depend on hobby miners that sell us a couple kg of ore so we can make some steel to build our cars from." Ship manufacturers and station builders wouldn't bother to buy 200t of some mineral but maybe 200000t and probably more. Dealing in tiny amounts would be to expensive, and they'd need a steady and reliable supply of useful quality which is being delivered just in time.

Maybe a very long time ago when humans only just started to venture into space your 500t of minerals might have been something, like cars were manufactured by hand a long time ago.

It's time that things in ED make sense, and the kind of mining that is being done isn't one of them. Maybe it's kinda romantic, at least until the pirates start shooting at you. Would you grow potatoes in your back yard if it would attract burglars shooting at you while you dig the field?
 
I think they originally envisioned engineering as something people would do over time gradually picking up materials as they played the game and unlocking engineers over time, not as the mad scramble everyone does to get the upgrades.

How would that work? Go to an engineer if you somehow happened to get some mechanical components like they flew into your cargo bay by accident, press the button to upgrade one of your miniguns once and then go back to what you're doing until you somehow happen run into another mechanical components half a year later?

I doubt they envisioned that.
 
Well stated! Also, right there at SOTHIS and CEOS is data delivery missions to move up in Fed Rank. Mindless moving data from one system port to another BUT, the one good thing here is the INSANE amount of Anacondas they send out to kill you!

Maybe it's good that I ended up in detention before noticing such missions. It's a cool ship, but my Beluga might have had some trouble shooting 4 Anacondas at the same time even if it had been armed.
 
Maybe it's good that I ended up in detention before noticing such missions. It's a cool ship, but my Beluga might have had some trouble shooting 4 Anacondas at the same time even if it had been armed.
I think, I would hope, the game only throws at you what it thinks you and your ship should be able to handle. So where my heavy combat Krait MKII and whatever Combat Rank I had = 4 (usually 1 to 2) Deadly Anacondas but where a ship like a Beluga, say with no or low fire power and minor hull, would only get 1 interdiction and by say a Cobra or Eagle, if that. I should test that as I am here now with both my Krait and DBX.
 
I think, I would hope, the game only throws at you what it thinks you and your ship should be able to handle. So where my heavy combat Krait MKII and whatever Combat Rank I had = 4 (usually 1 to 2) Deadly Anacondas but where a ship like a Beluga, say with no or low fire power and minor hull, would only get 1 interdiction and by say a Cobra or Eagle, if that. I should test that as I am here now with both my Krait and DBX.
The game will blow your ship up for a parking offence.

The game throws at you what the mission rank deserves, if it is an Elite class mission then you get an Elite class opposition, if it is a harmless mission you get Joe B in a hauler.
 
The game will blow your ship up for a parking offence.
Ha! True! I was in a port once, all turned around, couldn't find my pad or the way out and next thing I know BOOM! Rebuy screen! Funny! And yeah, I see that now thinking about it.. it says it right in the description of mission "Elite" or whatever and that "Hostile ships may be sent..." however, what hostile ships, or what kind of fire power is my question. I don't do a lot of Missions, just not my thing really, so I am not sure if the game would, even if marked "Elite" data delivery mission, actually send a fully loaded to bore Anaconda to stop data getting to a station by a DBX with no weapons or defense? I guess it might, I mean it's marked "Elite" or "Deadly", then expect an azz full of Condas!
 
I never said that everyone goes from Robigo to Sirius. I have never seen any place that had multiple passenger missions going to the same place except for Robigo and the other one the name of which I can't remember.

Why would I fire a weapon like a heatsink close to or inside a station? That'll probably get me shot down. And silent running doesn't go long enough to dock.

You're assuming that commodities are less tracable than cash.

Davs Hope doesn't have 10 material drops. IIRC were 4 or 5 when I was there and there was always the same material at the same spot, none of them being high grade. I don't remember what the data was, probably only 1 and not 3. And who wants to do 30 loops???? Really, there is no point in going there.
If you have never seen any other station with passenger missions going to the same place you haven’t looked enough. They are out there.
You fire the heat sink off to cool you down. Engage silent running, when your temperature starts to get high, fire one off you cool right down and go ahead and dock. You don’t get shot it is not a weapon.
There are 10 guaranteed manufactured drops at Dav’s Hope. Go there again and see for yourself. They spawn a huge range of G1-4 so as I said useful if you are new to engineering and have nothing. As for data my best ever was 3 drops from the data point and 2 each from 2 ships orbiting overhead I scanned for a total of 7 drops or 21 data.
Yes I am assuming materials are less traceable then cash as that tends to be the case in the real world and a very reasonable assumption for in game lore purposes.
 
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How would that work? Go to an engineer if you somehow happened to get some mechanical components like they flew into your cargo bay by accident, press the button to upgrade one of your miniguns once and then go back to what you're doing until you somehow happen run into another mechanical components half a year later?

I doubt they envisioned that.
It works fine. It is how I get materials for engineering now, by collecting it as I play. I do very little activity that is material gathering, just scooping, scanning and getting rewards from missions. It works as I am not in a mad scramble to engineer a dozen ships.
 
so I am not sure if the game would, even if marked "Elite" data delivery mission, actually send a fully loaded to bore Anaconda to stop data getting to a station by a DBX with no weapons or defense?

The game should throw at you what it can come up with according to simulation. Pirates would have a hard time to get their hands on Anacondas.

In a world where you are being murdered when your ship gets stuck in the docking slot of a station because your docking computer malfunctioned but both the manufacturer of said computer, nor the manufacturer of the station are being killed for causing the problem in the first place, you'd be held in prision and tortured for the rest of your life or worse if you sold your ship to anyone who ends up as wanted. There won't be engineers, either. They would be murdered when someone with an engineered ship becomes wanted.
 
It works as I am not in a mad scramble to engineer a dozen ships.

Right, Elite Dangerous, much like NMS, is mildly hostile to the idea that you can have plans or want to do things in its world. If all you want is to fly a spaceship (any ship will do) and chill, it's wonderful for that.

Just don't expect like...gameplay, or the ability to set goals and accomplish them in an engaging way.

Personally I think that's pretty bad as a place for a game to end up, especially when the developers keep saying that they don't want the game to be hostile to the idea of having goals, but I can only judge the game they made, not the one they wish they'd made.
 
If you have never seen any other station with passenger missions going to the same place you haven’t looked enough. They are out there.

Like where? I haven't looked at every station there is. I can only go by what I find.

That every place has a whole bunch of its own factions that don't want you to work with them unless you are in good standing doesn't help anything, either. Not having the market data and no good interface to use the data you do have for planning your trade also keeps you at home. On top of that, most missions force you to return home to get the reward.

The game is designed to keep you at home. That is just very bad design. I couldn't care less about all the stupid factions. What's the point of that anyway?

I'm still in Deciat since shortly I started playing. Most of my ships and modules are there. I have trade data for some systems about a jump away. The missions go back to Deciat. An important engineer is there. I'm at the fringe of the bubble which I thought would be an advantage.

I have no reason to go anywhere, and if I do, I need to came back anyway for engineering, my ships, my modules, for trade. That's how the game is designed.

Seriously, what kind of design is that?

You fire the heat sink off to cool you down. Engage silent running, when your temperature starts to get high, fire one off you cool right down and go ahead and dock. You don’t get shot it is not a weapon.

Says who? I have to deploy hardpoints to fire a heatsink. That heat signature would get the attention of the station and the security ships right away because the sink is very hot, obviously. They would know immediately that I'm trying to hide something. People on the station will complain when I fire a heatsink inside the station becauset it melts through their roof and falls on their head. Commanders not having shields would complain about all the debris floating around stations after a while because all these heat sinks would crash into the hulls of their ships. We would have to pay docking fees so they can send out garbage ships to pick up all the debris.

There are 10 guaranteed manufactured drops at Dav’s Hope. Go there again and see for yourself.

It's too much of a hassle, and why would I go again. I was very disappointed when I got there because the few materials and the litte bit of data to be found there is not worthwhile going there. It seemed you would get a lot of stuff in the video I watched, and that's why it was disappointing when it turned out there isn't really anything there. If I had known how it actually was, I wouldn't have gone there in the first place.
 
It works fine. It is how I get materials for engineering now, by collecting it as I play. I do very little activity that is material gathering, just scooping, scanning and getting rewards from missions. It works as I am not in a mad scramble to engineer a dozen ships.

No, it doesn't work at all. I would have to be insane to go to an engineer just to press the button for a modification once because it's way too inefficent. So I have to grind to get them first and then go once I'm too tired of the stupid grinding or wait and go some other time after grinding more.

I do not gather any materials unless I plan to use them for engineers. Why would I carry limpets and a limpet controller in my freighter when trading or in my Beluga when doing passenger missions? I don't. I don't pick them up without limpets because it's too much of a hassle. I don't go to signal sources because there is no cargo I could pick up and sell because it shows as stolen and gets me shot down. (I thought I could make money by that at the beginning, but it's pointless.) I don't go there to pick up materials unless I need them for engineers. I can't even reasonably have limpts in my combat ship with which I would blow up the NPC with that yield the materials.

I don't take materials as mission rewards unless I require them for engineers because missions are already paying badly even if you take nothing but the money.

There is nothing I would do to get materials if it wasn't for engineers, and materials don't fly into my cargo hold by accident. I don't have a dozen ships to engineer, either, and I'm not going to because it's too much grinding.
 
Right, Elite Dangerous, much like NMS, is mildly hostile to the idea that you can have plans or want to do things in its world. If all you want is to fly a spaceship (any ship will do) and chill, it's wonderful for that.

Just don't expect like...gameplay, or the ability to set goals and accomplish them in an engaging way.

Personally I think that's pretty bad as a place for a game to end up, especially when the developers keep saying that they don't want the game to be hostile to the idea of having goals, but I can only judge the game they made, not the one they wish they'd made.
Really?! I have been playing for 11 months. Have accomplished a lot of goals in that time and had lots of fun doing it. Have 25 ships all, but 3,fully engineered and those 3 are module storage hangar queens. I can’t understand why people find it hard. The game throws stuff at you. Blow up a pirate ship and you can scoop 5-10 manufactured every time. Just done a bunch of planetary scan missions and was getting data from every data point I scanned plus data from some of the mission rewards. Undocking to do something? Take a minute or 2 to scan the ships round the station and grab the data. Do some mining get some raw materials. In the time I have been playing the actual specific material gathering I have done have been a couple of runs to Crystalline Shards for G4 raw materials, a couple of runs to Jameson’s Cobra for data, a few hours doing HGE’s and when I started engineering a few runs to Dav’s Hope. So what you seem to be saying is that the game stops you setting goals and achieving them, because you actually have to play the game to achieve them and that is not fair!
 
Really?! I have been playing for 11 months. Have accomplished a lot of goals in that time and had lots of fun doing it. Have 25 ships all, but 3,fully engineered and those 3 are module storage hangar queens. I can’t understand why people find it hard.

How did you make that much money? 22 ships engineered? You must really love to grind.

The game throws stuff at you. Blow up a pirate ship and you can scoop 5-10 manufactured every time.

Not really. When I blew up ships I found that the stuff they yield is either stolen or disappears and I quit picking it up.

The first two engineers wanted Sulphur and Meta Alloys. So ok, I don't have any and no way to get any; maybe some time if I happen to get any I come back and forget about it in the meantime.

Making money is more important anyway and there isn't any way to make the huge amounts of money to buy the interesting ships. So apparently, I have to go mining because that way, I get rich in no time. Actually no, I found that there isn't anything to mine and get shot down by an NPC for the worthless ton of mineral I had. This game is no fun and I quit playing.

Just done a bunch of planetary scan missions and was getting data from every data point I scanned plus data from some of the mission rewards.

Those are illegal. Why the hell would I risk to get killed or go to detention again? I can't afford the stupid insurance. The second time I turned myself in when I got a fine for an irrelavant offence I was taken to detention already and had to rebuy my ship. That really sucks and is no fun, and I better avoid that risk.

Same goes for combat, and it doesn't even pay for the insurance. The only thing that pays a little is passenger missions, and even if you finally managed to get a ship with a half-way decent jump range, it takes 2--3 hours to do them. At first they are fun if you like sightseeing and then it gets just boring.

Undocking to do something? Take a minute or 2 to scan the ships round the station and grab the data.

What data?

Do some mining get some raw materials.

lol

In the time I have been playing the actual specific material gathering I have done have been a couple of runs to Crystalline Shards for G4 raw materials,

Crystalline Shards? Are there Crystal Entities somewhere that kill you if you come too close?

a couple of runs to Jameson’s Cobra for data,

I have no idea where that is and never heared about it. If I hadn't been watching these lore tour videos, I'd have never heared about it. (And if you watch these lengthy videos, you may notice that the guests he invited all quit playing and moved on because it's no fun anymore and because the game is empty and changing that is not wanted. Apparently they crowd-funded the game and then abandoned it because there was no other way.)

So how do you know about it and where it is?

a few hours doing HGE’s and when I started engineering a few runs to Dav’s Hope.

HGEs? What's that? I only know about Davs Hope because I happened to find a video about it.

So what you seem to be saying is that the game stops you setting goals and achieving them, because you actually have to play the game to achieve them and that is not fair!

I think that is not what Acatalepsy says.

The game doesn't throw anything at you. I expect all information required to sucessfully play a game to be found within the game, and ED totally fails at that. You don't know about materials and engineers other than that they want stuff you have no way to get and you don't know about any place you mentioned because the information is not there, and what little information there is the game fails to present you with.

The only thing you see is that you can do missions most of which are too dangerous and trade. That's it, and it all pays miserably. And I have already done all that in other games --- and actually, all of them were better in that than ED.

It's exactly like Acatalepsy says: "If all you want is to fly a spaceship (any ship will do) and chill, it's wonderful for that. Just don't expect like...gameplay, or the ability to set goals and accomplish them in an engaging way."

The game doesn't give you that. You have to be ridiculously persistent beyond believe in wanting to play it to eventually get there after countless hours of research using external sources and trying to figure out which of the information is still relevant and which isn't. You have to spend more time on research than on playing.

And even after that, I always quit playing because the game is so badly made. ED is a double failure in that it doesn't let you play because the information required to sucessfully play isn't there, and even when you gather information, it still fails because it isn't fun and so badly made that it keeps putting you off.

Perhaps you like it because you got all the information and because you like grinding. I hate grinding (it's stupid) and don't play games that try to make me.

So tell me, where is the actual gameplay that I need all these engineered ships for? When and where does the fun start which could be an incentive to do some grinding for money and for engineering and for ranks?
 
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Well man, CG is the competitive aspect of the game, you will compete against all the players, the most dedicated one and the lazyest one - so is kind of obvius that who grinded and worked to have the high end stuff will RIP commoners appart in terms of eficiency.
I dont see this has a bad aspect at all, ED need to have more ways to compensate who is dedicated.
I know only the people with social security checks will be left and exploiters nothing like an MMO with 1000 people left . I am sure to the troglodytes a game with only the try hards and cheaters left seems like good business but I know how that ends have fun on the private servers if anyone smart enough is left to build one.
 
As people don't seem to want to recognise that Part 1 has moved to part 2,
I would still like to say in this earlier edition -

This Thread is just Jammed up with so much rubbish and verbal diatribe including my own, it is hard to sort the Wheat from the Chaff.

There is no real Clear feedback on In Game experience, other than individual, small minded (Some good Exclusions) reasons.

No wonder the Devs Cant get a grip on the situation, When we as a Community Can't.
 
a couple of runs to Jameson’s Cobra for data, a few hours doing HGE’s and when I started engineering a few runs to Dav’s Hope.

...the core problem is these things you mentioned...

actually have to play the game

... don't count as playing the game.

But they're not play, not to most people, and certainly not to me. They're chores. Things that FDev's software asks me to do before it will unlock the actual play.

Sitting at the Jameson crash site relogging to farm data and then detonating your ship isn't fun. Grinding fed missions go increase in rank is boring for someone who wants to be exploring the bubble and fighting space romans. Shooting up the same guardian ruin in a pattern for an hour is dull when I want to be engaging a Cyclops.

FDev has said they don't like that this kind of thing is how materials are best gathered, and I believe they don't like it...but they still put it in the game, and didn't provide better options. I can only judge the game they made, not they one they say they wish they had made.

Of course, you can go do them. If you like what's on the other side enough and there are no great alternatives (what are you gonna do, go play Star Citizen?). It's not impossible to set goals in Elite, it's just the software is hostile to attempts to do so, eager to punish you with boring repetitive tasks for your hubris in thinking you could have fun all the time, rather than only intermittently.
 
...the core problem is these things you mentioned...



... don't count as playing the game.

But they're not play, not to most people, and certainly not to me. They're chores. Things that FDev's software asks me to do before it will unlock the actual play.

Sitting at the Jameson crash site relogging to farm data and then detonating your ship isn't fun. Grinding fed missions go increase in rank is boring for someone who wants to be exploring the bubble and fighting space romans. Shooting up the same guardian ruin in a pattern for an hour is dull when I want to be engaging a Cyclops.

FDev has said they don't like that this kind of thing is how materials are best gathered, and I believe they don't like it...but they still put it in the game, and didn't provide better options. I can only judge the game they made, not they one they say they wish they had made.

Of course, you can go do them. If you like what's on the other side enough and there are no great alternatives (what are you gonna do, go play Star Citizen?). It's not impossible to set goals in Elite, it's just the software is hostile to attempts to do so, eager to punish you with boring repetitive tasks for your hubris in thinking you could have fun all the time, rather than only intermittently.
Sorry what actual gameplay does unlocking engineers and engineering do? Absolutely none. Everything you can do with a fully engineered ship you can do with an unengineered one. I haven’t changed what I do in game since I started engineering ships. I keep hearing this spurious argument if only I could earn lots of cash and get a big ship and if only I could engineer it I would have access to some wonderful nirvana. If you don’t like what the game has to offer with vanilla ships you won’t like it with a fully engineered one either. And the amounts of time I have spent doing what many consider boring repetitive task trivial in comparison to the fun I have had.
 
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