Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

Deleted member 182079

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No. The thing about "fragmenting the player base" is what's known as concern-trolling. It's just disguising a wish to control how other people play by keeping them in the mode with the rules you want, if they want to meet each other.
The game already offers 3 options to play the game. Two of them are de-facto PvE only, while one of those allows one to see other players' ships in one instance and do some coop if players wish to do so.

I really don't think a fourth 'PvE Open' mode is a good idea because it's not needed. Unless you replace PG with it, that is.
 
I know I can hide system chat (and I had to the other night, one can only take so many racism/genitelia 'jokes' while trying to mine asteroids in peace) but that throws out the baby with the bathwater, really.

Players pvping in borann use local (SC) chat for that reason. And its working fine, id say.
 
The game already offers 3 options to play the game. Two of them are de-facto PvE only, while one of those allows one to see other players' ships in one instance and do some coop if players wish to do so.

I really don't think a fourth 'PvE Open' mode is a good idea because it's not needed.
If it wasn't needed, those of us who play in Mobius wouldn't be asking for it. What you mean is, you don't need it.
 

Deleted member 182079

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Like i said. For consolidation mobius + pg + solo.

If u want romove pg, fine, but why taking choice from ppl? Why forcing them?
I said only remove PG if an Open PvE mode was to come to fruition (which it won't, so PG stays, which I'm fine with even though I never use it).

I wouldn't remove Solo by consolidation it with the others though - it did help me only yesterday to continue playing when I had stability issues in Open (various colourful ship error messages in short succession), and for those players who really want to play on their own (I'm mostly doing my own thing in Open, but enjoy the occasional spicing-things-up situation that that mode presents in the form of friendly/hostile players). It is the most stable mode with the smoothest performance for me, and lacks the risk of immersion breaking player action (system chat aside...) but it can be a bit dull at times.
 

Deleted member 182079

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If it wasn't needed, those of us who play in Mobius wouldn't be asking for it. What you mean is, you don't need it.
Doesn't the introduction of an Open PvE mode make Mobius (not necessarily PG as such as some want to play with select friends/players only) redundant? You're splitting the player base between those two (again, I don't care either way but I'm sure FDev needs to consider these things) unless you severely limit maximum allowable player numbers per PG to something like 10-20.
 
I usually play solo, but every now and then I'll go online to find some CMDRs, and have some interaction. Every single time I did however, I have been interdicted and killed within 10 minutes of launching out of the station. You spawn, you try to fly somewhere and someone interdicts you and kills you without any thought or explanation. That's my complete experience with open. I'm fine with piracy and bounty hunting and all. But these people that just attack for no reason at all makes it that me, and a lot of people like me, don't want to play in open at all. Today I just wanted to screw around with some CMDRs at the community event. Never mind, cause they're waiting to kill you.

I have never, in a year of playing Elite, been in open and not been randomly killed by a griefer. Imagine that. Every time I played in open, a griefer has killed me (and no I have no open bounties). And the saddest thing is, I'm not even exaggerating. Open is completely useless. It has no upsides at all. Doesn't matter what you do, you risk everything on your run by playing in open. Whether you're exploring, mining, trading, bounty hunting or even pirating. All your hard work is ruined by some half-baked gently caresstard in a Challenger.

But instead of complaining, here's my solution: A scoring system. A simple one from the top of my mind: X / kills in the last X hours of play = S. If S < 3, the player is a griefer. IE 6 / 15 = 0.4 (meaning 15 innocent kills in the last 6 hours the player was online), which means this player is a griefer. This simple system can be upgraded to use the players full pvp history.

Punishment for players when the score drops below the threshold for the first couple of times:
  • Not be allowed to dock at any station (no repairs, resupplies, engineering, respawns, missions, etc).
  • Immediately be attacked by security forces in any inhabited system. And I'm talking constantly. As soons as the drops in the system the security forces should start interdicting. By doing this constantly, the annoyance of the griefer will be pushed to new levels and he'll stay away from inhabited systems.
  • Be made a large target for bounties. Players can go to a station, go to contacts and get contracts for griefers. With the reward around 1 million per player killed, hunting griefers becomes a liable option for people to make money. Besides, the community will ridding itself of the toxicity. The contracts update to let the hunter know where the griefer is (what system and where in the system). When the hunter attacks, the griefer has 2 options, Flee or fight. If they die, they have to wait for their score to rise before they can spawn in again (cause no griefers at stations). If they fight and win, they just killed another player with no bounty. So their score goes down even more, while more hunters will be on their way. Fleeing grievers will be on the run until their score rises enough. The worse their crimes, the longer they're on the run.

Harsh, but as we say in my country, a cookie of your own dough. You ruin the game for others, the game is ruined for you to.

Punishment for players who go below the threshold more than x times:

Flatout ban these players from playing in open for a week and put a strike on their account. If the player receives 3 strikes the account is banned, GG you played yourself.

I think this is fair because it has clear warnings, you can stop and better yourself at any point. If you get banned it's cause you simply don't do anything other that ruining the game for others. This system however leaves space for killing each other for RP reasons, I mean, you wanna be able to blast some imps on sight. I'm not against PVP, but I am against consistent pointless griefing. As many people are. And it's time Frontier did something about this, cause people have been complaining for years (I've followed the games development for a long time). Elite NEEDS a system. No one stands any real consequence of losing anything if they misbehave in game. The fine for killing a player for no reason is around 150.000 credits. If I saw 150.000 credits floating in space I wouldn't even bother to try and scoop it up. It's nothing, to anyone. Imagine if we had this system in place for murder in real life? You killed a random person now pay a 15 cents fine. It is laughable. There is a reason why you don't need to worry about being gunned down for no reason when going somewhere (except maybe if you live in the US); you murder, you go to jail for a long time. And no-one (sane) is willing to risk that for a stranger. But in Elite there are practically no consequences which is why it's out of control.

Real consequences = less griefing.

Simple as that. And quite frankly, Frontier has tried doing nothing for 5 years now and it clearly hasn't worked all that well. I'd give up space legs, fleet carriers and atmospheric landings for just some peace and interaction with other CMDRs. I've played this game for a year, and have been alone for the entire time. Despite all the hype, all the enthusiasm of people of how great the community is, I have only ever encountered the business end of railguns and plasma accelerators.

Open is impossible, inhospitable, toxic and frustrating , and quite frankly, it's beyond me why Frontier is not doing anything about it. The player pressing alt-f4 when he encounters a griefer is liable for a ban but the griefer is not. It's poor game design and it's poor community management. Frontier should be called out for it. Every other gamestudio actively fights toxicity, Frontier should as well.
I've been in open for the last 6 months and only been killed once - which I could have avoided if I hadn't been complacent (wing of 4, no high wake system set, tried to low wake initially)
 
Let's not forget that how the modes work is based purely on instancing. Solo instances with no-one else, PG instances with select other players and open instances with everyone.

A PvE mode would be a complete re-write since there is no mode that runs a code to determine if the player has a setting selected and then applies or does not apply damage according to this setting. To properly have a griefer free mode also means removing collision detection from player ships (and only player ships) without impacting anything else. This also needs to be done in such a way that any ship that passes temporarily becomes transparent at point of collision as parking on someone's canopy so they can't see is going to be another form of griefing. Implementing this as a mode, testing it and ensuring that there's no little surprises (refer to the Arx update) doesn't seem like a quick Friday afternoon job and is probably why it hasn't been done at any point in the last 6 years.

Is there be anyone who would genuinely he happy that this was implemented, with the risks of possible issues and have it delay the new era update by a significant margin? Look at the the interest generated by fleet carriers. Players are desperate for new content in this game and that needs to be the priority. PvE mode won't happen.
 
what??? Why would u remove crosschat??
While I kinda like cross-chat, I would like to see what mode everyone is in. There are some foul-mouth 12 year olds in that chat who I would love to block, but if they are in Open, then blocking them means I cannot steal LTDs from them. If they are in Solo or PG and I won't run into them anyway, I would block a good number of those chatters.

People think I use block with abandon, but I actually do NOT because it affects my own instancing as much as anyone's. I only have two hard-core griefers on my list as of current (I let the other guys out of jail after serving their time), and a couple of foul-mouth racists. If all these 12 year olds are playing in Solo, I'd happily expand that list. An alternative to my above suggestion is to add more granular controls to block, so I can block comms without blocking instancing and vice-versa.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Let's not forget that how the modes work is based purely on instancing. Solo instances with no-one else, PG instances with select other players and open instances with everyone.

A PvE mode would be a complete re-write since there is no mode that runs a code to determine if the player has a setting selected and then applies or does not apply damage according to this setting. To properly have a griefer free mode also means removing collision detection from player ships (and only player ships) without impacting anything else. This also needs to be done in such a way that any ship that passes temporarily becomes transparent at point of collision as parking on someone's canopy so they can't see is going to be another form of griefing. Implementing this as a mode, testing it and ensuring that there's no little surprises (refer to the Arx update) doesn't seem like a quick Friday afternoon job and is probably why it hasn't been done at any point in the last 6 years.

Is there be anyone who would genuinely he happy that this was implemented, with the risks of possible issues and have it delay the new era update by a significant margin? Look at the the interest generated by fleet carriers. Players are desperate for new content in this game and that needs to be the priority. PvE mode won't happen.
Good points.

The games I played (and still do) that have something resembling a PvE mode are GTA Online (not a fan in general but it's a good example) and Forza Horizon 4.

In GTA, there's a toggle - at least in theory that means other players can't harm you (haxx aside). In a game that actively promotes shooting each other, it can be a baffling experience. The game also tries to steer you away from it by not giving you access to certain missions etc.

In Forza, while on the open map, as soon as you come near other players, they become transparent and you can drive right through them. I can see why they did it but it's a horrible immersion breaker. Especially in a car game where I'd like to check out other people's 'rides'. But they show as transparent.

It's all very gamey and pulls you out of the experience - it would be horrible in a game like Elite imo.
 

Deleted member 182079

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While I kinda like cross-chat, I would like to see what mode everyone is in. There are some foul-mouth 12 year olds in that chat who I would love to block, but if they are in Open, then blocking them means I cannot steal LTDs from them. If they are in Solo or PG and I won't run into them anyway, I would block a good number of those chatters.

People think I use block with abandon, but I actually do NOT because it affects my own instancing as much as anyone's. I only have two hard-core griefers on my list as of current (I let the other guys out of jail after serving their time), and a couple of foul-mouth racists. If all these 12 year olds are playing in Solo, I'd happily expand that list. An alternative to my above suggestion is to add more granular controls to block, so I can block comms without blocking instancing and vice-versa.
I would love to block a number of players based on system chat history - 5-10 of those gone would probably clean up the chat quite substantially. Doesn't the June update include the option to block people without having shared an instance? Or even better, filter out PG/Solo players (i.e. toggle for each in the options). There's zero reason for me to see their chatter, but others could still endure it if they wished.
 
I would love to block a number of players based on system chat history - 5-10 of those gone would probably clean up the chat quite substantially. Doesn't the June update include the option to block people without having shared an instance?
You can do that right now, just select one of their chat "posts" and you'll see a block player option. It's a full block, instancing and all IIRC, but you can do it today if you want.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
You can do that right now, just select one of their chat "posts" and you'll see a block player option. It's a full block, instancing and all IIRC, but you can do it today if you want.
Oh. Thanks, I never tried this. Will get to work next time I'm in Borann again (am taking a break from the grinding, LTDs are coming out of my ears at this stage).
 
Oh. Thanks, I never tried this. Will get to work next time I'm in Borann again (am taking a break from the grinding, LTDs are coming out of my ears at this stage).
Like you say, there are just a few players who spam the chat with rubbish, so it shouldn't take much to clean it up.
 
An alternative to my above suggestion is to add more granular controls to block, so I can block comms without blocking instancing and vice-versa.
Simple as that.

Doesn't the introduction of an Open PvE mode make Mobius (not necessarily PG as such as some want to play with select friends/players only) redundant? You're splitting the player base between those two (again, I don't care either way but I'm sure FDev needs to consider these things) unless you severely limit maximum allowable player numbers per PG to something like 10-20.
Yes it will make mobius redundant and obsolete. It will mean game will directly support mobius. Number of cmdr assigned to mobius shows demand for this feature. I will be simply easier access than currently.
I've been in open for the last 6 months and only been killed once - which I could have avoided if I hadn't been complacent (wing of 4, no high wake system set, tried to low wake initially)
Go to deicat or davs hope (HGE is better and no immeraion breaking, but i wanted to see what is this everyone was refering in guides and stuff)
Let's not forget that how the modes work is based purely on instancing. Solo instances with no-one else, PG instances with select other players and open instances with everyone.

A PvE mode would be a complete re-write since there is no mode that runs a code to determine if the player has a setting selected and then applies or does not apply damage according to this setting. To properly have a griefer free mode also means removing collision detection from player ships (and only player ships) without impacting anything else. This also needs to be done in such a way that any ship that passes temporarily becomes transparent at point of collision as parking on someone's canopy so they can't see is going to be another form of griefing. Implementing this as a mode, testing it and ensuring that there's no little surprises (refer to the Arx update) doesn't seem like a quick Friday afternoon job and is probably why it hasn't been done at any point in the last 6 years.

Is there be anyone who would genuinely he happy that this was implemented, with the risks of possible issues and have it delay the new era update by a significant margin? Look at the the interest generated by fleet carriers. Players are desperate for new content in this game and that needs to be the priority. PvE mode won't happen.
That is argument for PVP toggle. Its not for Open PVE mode.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Like you say, there are just a few players who spam the chat with rubbish, so it shouldn't take much to clean it up.
It was a disturbing amount of them over the past week or so, I have to say - maybe I was unlucky but who knows.

Not just a few rotten apples but a felt ~75% of those engaging in chat (what the heck are they doing anyways, I can't type in chat while mining LTDs!) would probably be ripe for a perma account ban if they typed their 'musings' out here in the forum.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Yes it will make mobius redundant and obsolete. It will mean game will directly support mobius. Number of cmdr assigned to mobius shows demand for this feature. I will be simply easier access than currently.
I would actually be supportive of that, I prefer an officially supported mode vs a player run version with their own rules and out-of-game hoops to jump through to join.

Still, I personally wouldn't play in Open PvE as I'm happy with Open as is. Aside from a handful of key systems it's pretty difficult to run into more than single CMDRs who mind their own business anyways.
 
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