Grinding isn't the player's fault

I've noticed that when players talk about the game getting boring, they usually get accused for 'grinding' the game. I myself haven't made any threads or comments about Elite Dangerous getting boring, but I disagree that the player should be blamed for grinding the game. And to state my view clearly, I do agree that the game gets a little boring after 100 hours, which is about over half a week worth of time. I mean, I was checking out 'games to play while watching something' on Reddit, and one of the most recommended games is Elite Dangerous, and looking at the 'helpful' Steam reviews, a lot of people seem to be talking about the game getting boring. So I don't think that most people who find the game boring do so because they've simply tried grinding it.

A lot of people do rightly state that it is a space sim, and there is 'a lot of space', however I also think that it would be more enjoyable if flying required more skills. For example, I play flight sim, truck sim, where you basically just drive or fly around, but before you know it, I look at the Steam and find out I've played over 100 hours on them. Or I think a better example is Factorio or Rimworld (Factorio did use to feel a little grindy towards the end). You play for a bit and before you know it you've clocked over 200 hours in each game. All of these games, except flight sim have a structure which requires you to obtain better and better items and equipment, which is what most people attribute grinding in ED with. The contrast for me, is that ED gets boring much quicker, because it requires less skill and attention, and also because things start repeating. Since everything is mostly the same, and travelling doesn't take much technical skill, it gets boring quite quick, whereas in the other games, you don't even think about grinding.

My point is, if players feel the need to grind, they shouldn't be blamed. It just means that the gameplay isn't interesting enough or has nothing new to it to keep their attention, and as a result players only feel excitement when working up to that next ship or item. But if they hate the game instantly, then it probably isn't for them :p
 
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The infuriating thing for me is the content behind all these grind walls is amazing. Fighting people/Goids is probably one of the best experiences in all of gaming. The road and process to get to that point where you can actually do those things is what is so terrible. For engineering it is better now since there are different options you can choose to acquire what you need. You are no longer forced into one specific activity most of the time. But for the new Xeno stuff there is only one method of getting the data/materials you need. And you would think Fdev would have learned not to deny players options around the more tedious and repetitive RNG after all these years.
 
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I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher. In each and every case your character must level up. "The Grind" is a fact of life for those who play games. No one gets a game where your character is SUPERMAN right off the bat.

It's not about the destination. It's about the grind involved in getting to the destination.
 
Player has option to not grind.
It's one of 'those' threads isn't it? :D
Not really, I haven't really posted any of those threads. If you look at my previous posts, it's mainly concerning ships and raging. Forget that last point :p . Anyways, my point was that it isn't the player's fault, if gameplay was exciting, before you know it, you would have obtained the best ships, etc. The player shouldn't think about grinding, if gameplay was exciting, that's my point. And that's the case in most games I play, although it's not really a space sim genre.
 
This. If people want to grind then go for it, but when they come back and say the game's boring - meh, you chose to play that way.
This is what I hear quoted most. But is it really? If the player is so obsessed with what they are doing, they will simply not think about the grind. But I think the repetitiveness and the lack of skills needed to do certain things such as travelling makes it boring after a while, as evident of the number of people I always see complaining about the game being boring. If gameplay, like some games which are not sims, was more interesting, then before you know it you would have unlocked everything - but without thinking about grinding at all.
 
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I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher. In each and every case your character must level up. "The Grind" is a fact of life for those who play games. No one gets a game where your character is SUPERMAN right off the bat.

It's not about the destination. It's about the grind involved in getting to the destination.
I haven't played those games, but I think what you said paints a clearer picture. If the grind, (aka 'the journey') is boring, then there is something wrong with the gameplay. The final product is usually boring to look at (from a programmer's perspective), but if the journey itself gets repetitive or boring, then it's likely you won't finish, unless you are highly motivated, which is something people don't do in a game, only in real life. The path to the end, should be more technically challenging, instead of getting repetitive.
 
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This is what I hear quoted most. But is it really? If the player is so obsessed with what they are doing, they will simply not think about the grind. But I think the repetitiveness and the lack of skills needed to do certain things such as travelling makes it boring after a while, as evident of the number of people I always see complaining about the game being boring. If gameplay, like some games which are not sims, was more interesting, then before you know it you would have unlocked everything - but without thinking about grinding at all.
I don't think about the 'grind' at all. I fly spaceships, stuff happens.
 
This is what I hear quoted most. But is it really? If the player is so obsessed with what they are doing, they will simply not think about the grind. But I think the repetitiveness and the lack of skills needed to do certain things such as travelling makes it boring after a while for a lot of people who complain about the game being boring. If gameplay, like some games which are not sims, was more interesting, then before you know it you would have unlocked everything - but without thinking about grinding at all.
I was chatting with a grinder about our different approaches to upgrading one module under the old engineers system he needed (not wanted needed) two hundred rolls to consider it, I was happy with best out of three. He was unhappy with spending hours grinding at just one type of mat, then the next and so on and on. I was just pratting about enjoying myself doing whatever I thought looked interesting.

So the obsessive shoe may be on the other foot.

On a side note he's absolutely miserable about the game, whereas I enjoy it.
 
I haven't played those games, but I think what you said paints a clearer picture. If the grind, (aka 'the journey') is boring, then there is something wrong with the gameplay. The final product is usually boring to look at (from a programmer's perspective), but if the journey itself gets repetitive or boring, then it's likely you won't finish, unless you are highly motivated, which is something people don't do in a game, only in real life. The path to the end, should be more technically challenging, instead of getting repetitive.
The path is the goal in these games. And it is usually filled with adventure, interesting characters to meet, great places to see and improving your avatar while doing so. I often play these games just because of the early game - it often is the most interesting part. Improvements come in small increments but they are far more often than in ED. And often the gameplay is its own reward too - a quality that ED tossed aside for the dictate of RNG.

I don't need no superman stuff. That's why I feel the whole engineer grind in ED is pointless. It serves just the purpose to fuel some upgrade activity and the rest of the game is now built around it to entice you to do it.

I tread other paths now that are more adventurous and offer more variety - you could say that in ED I lost the ability to blaze my trail and felt forced to tread a designated one.
 
I don't think about the 'grind' at all. I fly spaceships, stuff happens.
Yes, that's the ideal situation. You start of in a sidewinder, and you get caught up doing so many interesting things just flying around, and suddenly you're suddenly rich before you know it. During that time you're not even thinking about the grind, because the game has you occupied doing either technically demanding or exciting things. But my point is, people want that too. Grinding is inherently boring by definition. People only grind because they feel that the game at present is boring, and that getting a better ship will resolve that. Unfortunately, when they say that the game is boring, they get blamed for purposefully grinding, but the real reason they say so is because the things you do for fun, may have become un-enjoyable or repetitive for them. Of course, it's hard to please everyone, but adding more depth or making the cockpit more technically challenging to fly might may help other players take their focus off the grind itself and more onto piloting the ship, for example.
 
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The only time I can think of when I was doing something I found boring and didn't really want to do in game was the 5k ly trek to unlock an engineer early on.

I still haven't done an extensive amount of long range exploring for the simple reason jump, honk, scoop, scan on loop, no matter how many ways I break it up with planetary landings and scenic views, is to me an extremely boring and repetitive mechanic.

So I don't it. Problem solved.
 
I was chatting with a grinder about our different approaches to upgrading one module under the old engineers system he needed (not wanted needed) two hundred rolls to consider it, I was happy with best out of three. He was unhappy with spending hours grinding at just one type of mat, then the next and so on and on. I was just pratting about enjoying myself doing whatever I thought looked interesting.

So the obsessive shoe may be on the other foot.

On a side note he's absolutely miserable about the game, whereas I enjoy it.
He sounds like a perfectionist. The game must feel very stressful to him lol.
 
It depends what you're into doing doesn't it though the main role people feel they need a big ship for, I think is combat, to be the bigger fish (you can explore, make a profit trading onionhead or carry an SRV in a sidewinder, no problem). Thing is, while it might not be their fault (that it's not easy to recognise) I still don't think you can beat combat in an eagle.

People want to tank, I get it and spend more time in pew pew before they need a repair/refuel but small ships are the pure experience. So for me it's not the game - or the player - but if you fly a big tanky ship you like to post screenies of .. then it's YOUR fault .. for making other people feel jealous!?
 
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