Hacker forum and what I learned

A program that modifies values saved in your computer's RAM isn't copyright infringement.
depends. where law hasn't become agressive enough to prosecute plain reverse engineering it isn't rare for such cases to be made as copyright infringement. what jusrisdiction would hypothetically apply here ... i have no idea.

cheating in a game is of course no crime in any country/state i know of. unless you also show your genitals, or rip off people, or blaspheme or something :)

also, everyone on the internet has a lawyer, didn't you know? :D
 
Kudos for investigating this. In regards to "3. Users are banned after 2 warnings" - any mention what kind of ban? I know FDEV can issue a few (from what they were saying on a few live streams):

1) Ban to Solo
2) Shadow ban (you're in a special server ONLY with other shadowbanned people and with no ability to affect the BGS)
3) Temp game ban
4) Permanent game ban
After further review, I think the worst that happens is a perma shadow ban.
 
You are grossly over-generalizing. Once you are done playing a game normally, have exhausted all of the challenge and accomplishments you can out of it and are just plain bored with it, cheats, trainers, and whatnot can be fun to fool around with to extend the game's entertainment value for a little longer.

I was a huge fan of the original Privateer, way back in the ... i think 90's...and after a few hundred hours of playing it normally I started memory editing to modify ship parameters and got another hundred+ hours out of it. I'd have quit playing earlier if not for that additional gameplay that "cheating" opened up.

Yes, some gamers who cheat do so to bypass the challenge, and yes, for them they are cheating themselves...but it's over-generalization to say that is the case across the board.

That being said, in an online game where everything you do potentially impacts other players it is ethically wrong to use cheats and is against the ToS. And that's what this is about, whether it's "Fun" or not is beside the point.
I did this with the cheat console on one of the CoD's campaigns. Bullet time was pretty cool, you could enter a building and shoot 4 or 5 guys before the 1st guy hit the ground. Like you said, after the campaign was completed multiple times... A bit like the developer or director mode on GTA V where you can shoot subgun grenades at police cars wearing a clown mask with insane jumping abilities.

But against other people who are trying to play using immersion and some sort of RW physics model? No.
 
depends. where law hasn't become agressive enough to prosecute plain reverse engineering it isn't rare for such cases to be made as copyright infringement. what jusrisdiction would hypothetically apply here ... i have no idea.

cheating in a game is of course no crime in any country/state i know of. unless you also show your genitals, or rip off people, or blaspheme or something :)

also, everyone on the internet has a lawyer, didn't you know? :D
Unless money is involved, then it is a crime.
 
This sort of thing is pretty common. There are websites where gamers can petition for hacks and trainers, and then hackers will create those tools based on per-game demand. The end users are just chumps, the actual hackers are in it for the challenge and kudos and could care less about the game generally.
Yep, that's usually how it goes, at least with the hobbyist level hacking we're dealing with here. (Professional hackers are, of course, a different world entirely.)

Makes me wonder about the appropriate response to these tools. Is it to ban the users, or use counter tools like Battle Eye, and possibly do central servers for popular instance locations...?
It seems pretty clear that FDev are doing both in tandem. Several people have already commented on what we know/infer/guess about the bans policy. But there are definitely also technical measures being used.

In particular, when I dug down to find earlier threads involving the developers of these hack tools, they discuss the evolving anti-tampering systems that FDev has added to the client over time, as well as their theories about what kinds of cheats the servers can detect. It sounds like FDev uses bespoke client-side measures, and are not licensing one of the existing anti-cheat systems. In my opinion that's totally reasonable, since the expensive licensed anti-cheat systems have also mostly been defeated by hackers, and are much more intrusive and performance-draining than what it seems FDev is doing. The cheat developers are more limited by server checks, as you can't avoid exchanging data with the server, and it sounds like FDev are policing for a variety of inconsistencies that would indicate cheat usage. So FDev is creating a moving target for them, at least. Apparently the switch to the 64-bit client was quite disruptive for them, which might explain why there was a lull in reports of cheating until recently.
 
After further review, I think the worst that happens is a perma shadow ban.
That's actually the very best thing they can do. A shadowbanned cheater only affects other cheaters and may still generate income by buying stuff from the store. An unnoticed punishment like this is far better than any other punishment (account deletion, credit removal etc.).
 
Ahh, but this is where the responsibility of Google is now being called into question. It's a similar position to responsibility of search engines and facebook etc. for highlighting sites encouraging child molestation, suicides and such like.

Where does it begin, and where does it end? Should Google be highlighting a code hacking forum ? I suggest they could be sued.
Nonsense.
 
Shadowban doesn't prevent them from cheating, similarly to Solo.
As to progress - it is exactly the same in shadowban and on normal servers - you get credits, engineer reps, gather materials, pump your ships for... Nothing - both on normal server and in shadowban.
The only difference is that in shadowban you don't meet other players and don't influence BGS/PP.
You obviously don't know what shadowban means, otherwise you would've mentioned the inability to influence the BGS and PP. So the question is, why do you feel the need to share your ignorance about it?
 
So that suggests saying it was impossible was a lie, right?
Saying they said it's impossible is a lie, stop spreading false information please.
By the way, your post suggests that you don't really know what you are taking about. Analysis mode is an addition to the UI, why should it be affected by legacy code?! Everything that gets changed or replaced follows different rules than the stuff we couldn't change 4 years ago when Frontier said that adding HUD colour settings would require, well, changing things.
 
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That's actually the very best thing they can do. A shadowbanned cheater only affects other cheaters and may still generate income by buying stuff from the store. An unnoticed punishment like this is far better than any other punishment (account deletion, credit removal etc.).
Imagine how weird it must be over in Cheater/Haxorz ED... ;)
 
That's actually the very best thing they can do. A shadowbanned cheater only affects other cheaters and may still generate income by buying stuff from the store. An unnoticed punishment like this is far better than any other punishment (account deletion, credit removal etc.).
I agree. Letting the cheaters play in single player mode with their hacks, without affecting the community and influencing the game, is a win win situation.
The next best thing would be allowing mods in solo/private groups.
 
As of 1 week ago (according to hacker forums):

.
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2 days ago:


All caught up. The hacker devs have been quiet in the past few weeks. I didn't see anything in this forum about HUD improvements. Everyone is clamoring about in-game functionality. I'm surprised someone didn't ask for "Space Legs" its that ridiculous.

This particular quote fills me with optimism....these cmdrs either need to have their trainer made totally unuseable...or they need to be banned....end of.
 
No, it's a criminal offence, at least in my country.
Every program modifies values saved in your computer's RAM. It adds values, modifies them, and erases them. It's the core function of any program.
Criminal offense can only be charged if a program tampers with private user's data (passwords, usernames, intercepting packets from online servers or modiying packets before they are sent to servers or even spoofing these packets for private information).
You, as a game company, can take him to court, but its doubtful that any hacker will be criminally charged just by making a simple single-player trainer.
 
Every program modifies values saved in your computer's RAM. It adds values, modifies them, and erases them. It's the core function of any program.
Criminal offense can only be charged if a program tampers with private user's data (passwords, usernames, intercepting packets from online servers or modiying packets before they are sent to servers or even spoofing these packets for private information).
You, as a game company, can take him to court, but its doubtful that any hacker will be criminally charged just by making a simple single-player trainer.
No, for the law any modification of data in ways that aren't permitted is punishable, and EULA in its License Restrictions clearly forbids any modification of the Game.
 
If some of you read manga, you will find that there is a new trending history type among readers, Japanese and Coreans at the top;
The player nerd that suddenly finds himself in a fantasy world and some God from that world grants him a cheating skill, that places him above all others.
So these characters become "special" by breaking the rules. Young men and women seem to favor this, like cheating is some "god granted skill".
"Above all others" except those who have access to the same cheats? I guess there's something in the psychology of "arcane knowledge" that's been around since the year dot; it's possibly why many of us of a certain age found an affinity with early home computers when much of the world seemed terrified or dismissive of them. But I fear I may be too old and jaded to understand how this would apply to actively cheating in a multiplayer gaming environment unless it's about "getting one over on the developers" rather than providing a "god granted" advantage that has also been granted to unknown numbers of other players who are running the same scripts.
That's essentially the plot of The Matrix
 
No, for the law any modification of data in ways that aren't permitted is punishable, and EULA in its License Restrictions clearly forbids any modification of the Game.
Like I said, good luck trying to implement that on court. We are talking about the user of the PC, by his own accord, using a hacker's program to change HIS OWN computer's data. All criminal charges require "Unauthorized use". So, only the game company can argue there, that the hack is in any way modifying the game data on the client's side. It will have to prove it on court.
 
Like I said, good luck trying to implement that on court. We are talking about the user of the PC, by his own accord, using a hacker's program to change HIS OWN computer's data. All criminally charges require "Unauthorized use". So, only the game company can argue there, that the hack is in any way modifying the game data on the client's side. It will have to prove it on court.
It's not your own data, you don't own the game or any part of it, including data. You bought only usage rights and the EULA defines in which ways you may and may not exercise your rights.
 
It's not your own data, you don't own the game or any part of it, including data. You bought only usage rights and the EULA defines in which ways you may and may not exercise your rights.
Breaches of that would generally be civil rather than criminal matters, though, and the extent to which EULA terms are enforcable are not settled law. Obtaining a judgement of any use versus someone based in another country would be impractical, especially due to the need to show actual damage to Frontier.

A stronger criminal case (under legislation like the UK's Computer Misuse Acts) would be that the modifications to the client app were causing unauthorised modifications to data held on Frontier's servers. Certainly in a literal sense this would probably be illegal. But in practical terms the steps needed to bring a case (probably including extradition and identification of the suspect) versus the actual damage done would likely mean the authorities wouldn't view it in the public interest to proceed.

Either way in practical terms the courts are not an effective or efficient way to deal with the problem.
 
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