WoW and FF do the same that pve enough for you?
How is combat logging still allowed in this game ? That's just crazy...
- Thread starter RastaCook
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WoW and FF do the same that pve enough for you?
Honestly, I think it makes you look kinda scummy, in that hypothetical. I mean, for one, you really shouldn't blast newbies right out the box, at least let them get their feet wet.
Mixed bag on the logging. If you decide to run away, find a safeish spot, then want to DC, well sure no prob. "Combat logging" coz you got snapped up in an interdiction by a hunter, no better than the disconnecting traders there.
I think what a lot of people are misinterpreting what it actually means to play in Open. The claims are that Open is a PvP environment, and avoiding that by combat logging is 'against the rules' somehow. When you play in Open mode you are not choosing to play in an open PvP environment. What you are choosing to do is play in an environment where there are no rules, other than the ruleset programmed into the game by Frontier.
The ruleset programmed into the game contains (amongst others) the following 'rules':
1) PVP is allowed, with currently little to no real penalty for pirates, psychos, griefers etc.
2) Combat logging also contains little to no penalty.
So if you choose to play in open, you choose to play in an environment when anything goes. If you are not actually hacking the client but playing within the ruleset as defined by Frontier, anything goes. Put simply, you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you want no restrictions on your ability to PVP, you also have to accept that there are no restrictions on other people's ability to disconnect in combat.
The only way for players to define their own ruleset is to form a private group. If you don't like rule 1, join a 'PVE' group. If you don't like rule 2, join some sort of 'ethical Pirates vs Pirate Victims PvP' group.
The only way to change the ruleset of Open is for Frontier to do it. They are the masters of that ruleset. So if you think there is too much griefing, lobby them on this forum to change rule 1. If you don't like combat logging, lobby them to change rule 2. Many people are doing this, hence the endless threads. Combat logging is obviously not a huge concern for Frontier since they've launched a product in 2014 which does nothing to prevent it. That might boggle your mind - it certainly does mine - but in Open, thems the rules and we have to get on with it.
What you can't do is impose your own set of rules or moral standards on other people in Open. People who complain about combat logging in Open are exactly equivalent to people who complain about getting pirated. And the answer is the same - go form your own group with your own rules. With blackjack... and hookers... in fact, forget about the group!
The ruleset programmed into the game contains (amongst others) the following 'rules':
1) PVP is allowed, with currently little to no real penalty for pirates, psychos, griefers etc.
2) Combat logging also contains little to no penalty.
So if you choose to play in open, you choose to play in an environment when anything goes. If you are not actually hacking the client but playing within the ruleset as defined by Frontier, anything goes. Put simply, you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you want no restrictions on your ability to PVP, you also have to accept that there are no restrictions on other people's ability to disconnect in combat.
The only way for players to define their own ruleset is to form a private group. If you don't like rule 1, join a 'PVE' group. If you don't like rule 2, join some sort of 'ethical Pirates vs Pirate Victims PvP' group.
The only way to change the ruleset of Open is for Frontier to do it. They are the masters of that ruleset. So if you think there is too much griefing, lobby them on this forum to change rule 1. If you don't like combat logging, lobby them to change rule 2. Many people are doing this, hence the endless threads. Combat logging is obviously not a huge concern for Frontier since they've launched a product in 2014 which does nothing to prevent it. That might boggle your mind - it certainly does mine - but in Open, thems the rules and we have to get on with it.
What you can't do is impose your own set of rules or moral standards on other people in Open. People who complain about combat logging in Open are exactly equivalent to people who complain about getting pirated. And the answer is the same - go form your own group with your own rules. With blackjack... and hookers... in fact, forget about the group!
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I don't care one way or the other. Do what you want.
But you can't combat log, you have to disconnect. It's also against the tos. I suppose your right fd don't seem to care but taking advantage of that doesn't let you off the hook, your still a poor sport if you do it.
Yes, and those rules allow players to attack other players at will, wherever they like. That's the definition of a an open PvP environment (as opposed to an environment where PvP combat is restricted or limited to certain locations, players, or by some other means).
Choosing to play in Open is choosing to play in an open PvP environment, just as choosing to play in Solo is choosing to play in a purely PvE environment (at least as far as combat is concerned).
Yes, and by choosing to play in Open you are choosing to play by those rules. PvP combat is allowed with minimal restrictions (although not without consequences), ergo you are choosing to play in a PvP environment.
Combat logging, in the sense of pulling the plug, is not a part of the game rules. It's a 'meta' action that occurs outside the structure of the game. It's the equivalent of tipping the table over when losing at chess - not part of the rules of the game.
If FD had intended players to be able to escape from combat at will, they would have added a in-game function to allow it.
Instead, the code of conduct that all players agree to specifically states:
"No cheating or taking advantage of exploits in the game
We do not tolerate cheating of any kind in the game, this includes using automated programs or services offered outside of the game to generate player advantage, altering game code or using cheat codes.
We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.
Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalise and could face a game ban."
https://store.elitedangerous.com/code-of-conduct/
Pulling the plug is an exploit, pure and simple.
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You can hardly term disconnection an exploit, since it is completely indistinguishable from real connection problems. Nor can the ToS of a game dictate what a person is allowed to do with their own hardware.
So if I get interdicted by a group of bounty hunters hired by merchants and I choose to say my firewall "block all but one" and kill them that way on by one instead of actually playing the game. That is by your rulebook a legit way to play the game?
BTW, the rational crowd here is not attacking people who use the regular 15s timer to logout while in combat, it about the guys who just alt+f4 or just disconnect the network cable. 15s might be a little bit short, but that is how the game is. frontier might give us at least an indicator when someone is logging off and maybe increase the timer at least a little, but that is not the problem that angers so many. The guys who just unplug the cable are the problem.
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He did not called disconnection an exploit, he called intentional disconnection an exploit and he is right. And you can write in your tos whatever you want, some of the stuff might not be legally binding, but banning people for cheating is enforceable without any trouble.
But as you mentioned is hard to see the difference between legit disconnects and even more so with the game not able to connect in many cases anyway, fixing those issues should have for sure priority over coding a decent solution for the logoffsky maneuver.
I agree its a bit of a move, but does it really warrant the amount of whining going on about it? Lets face it the penalties of being killed are stiffer than the losses of missing out on the kill. I can understand a newbie not wanting to lose many hours of play to earn credits (even if insured) - I don't really get the 'boo-hoo-he-won't-let-me-kill-him-even-though-I-obviously-pwned-him-I'm-losing-a-tiny-stat-increase' crew...
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Is the answer to have combat damage contribute to your Elite combat rating? Reducing the impact of not getting the 'kill'?
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It doesn't work that way. Try it out.
If you block one players IP, yet are still connected to the server, and other players remain unblocked both to each other and the server - it's you who get the boot because you are causing a mismatch, and the instance gets re-checked, with you out of it and most probably looking at a black server unconnected screen.
If people want to engage in this kind of behavior (and I don't advise anyone does) then you have to block all IP's in the current instance and force an instance re-check to persuade the authentication servers to put you in your own instance. It's not guaranteed to work, and it has all sorts of unpleasant side-effects both for other players and the perpetrator.
There are other, nastier things possible, but that goes into the realm of not simply unsporting play, but into epic ween haxxor wannabe lamer script-kiddiedom, all the way down to absolute illegality.
So peeps - if you are going to combat log, simply do so, and don't try to get yourselves into some potentially real legal trouble. Solo exists for a reason - and if you really want to make a griefer cry tears of purest raeg - it's much better all round to just do so by smacking him around in-game.
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I wouldn't equate a discussion about it as whining. But what should we do sit here with our mouths shut and wait for fd to pull their head out? Kinda sounds like you want the discussion to go away, and why would you want that? Nobody compelled you to click on it. Is it safe to say your whining because they are lobbying to have your crutch removed?
Honestly, why would you try and read so much into my post? I didn't even know what 'combat logging' was until I started reading these forums, I've never done it nor would I consider it. That said, I've never encountered a human Cmdr in my many hours of playing and the NPCs are easy to beat or run away from.
"How is combat logging still allowed in this game ? That's just crazy..." just sounds like a whine to me, not the start of a constructive discussion. But as I said, I fail to understand what people think they are losing if someone logs out on them...just go kill a few NPCs and get over it...
I was a bit sarcastic but basically I was saying your reading to much into peoples complaints. It's a feature in every online game I've ever seen so it's shocking it's not here and needs to be addressed. A couple people may lose their cool but that really doesn't make it a whine thread. It may ruin a game session but it doesn't sound like it's ruining their day is all I'm saying.
I doubt the threads will go away till the issue is addressed.
I'm all for constructive discussion regarding improvements to the game but honestly, some of those anti-combat-logging threads had so much butthurt my was having sympathy pains...
*grin* True that.
If you suffer a genuine connection issue, that's not exploiting.
If you pull the plug, it is.
I think it's because they're using a peer to peer model rather than a traditional client server based structure which most MMOs use. I'm guessing this choice is making it more complex to address issues such as this.
Frontier's subsequent stock market statement says it is now losing money twice as fast.
Probably because ED is still in development, only about half complete, despite Braben prmising finsh last year.