I almost feel bad for Frontier

I don't think the situation is hopeless. Negative feedback mostly revolves around a few topics which are easy to fix, or get more in line with players' expectations.

  • Upkeep costs can be decreased
  • Wind up / cooldown times can be decreased
  • Universal Cartographics can be added

If only these three things are "fixed", or aligned better with the feedback than the reception of Carriers will be much better. Frontier can gain much reputation with relatively few changes this time around. It's not like Power Play or Engineers which had so many issues in the past. I'm hopeful.

So last night Tuesday 7th April I loaded up my kids account on an Xbox one X running 4k (Saying this for loading times and a general feel of what I was doing)

Started a new game and started a timer the moment I said play.

In just over two hours (with toilet break and munchy break as I'm smoking my favourite colour at the moment and with having to set up some controller bindings I managed too -

1. Complete the normal (new) tutorial, at "blue speed" throight.

2. Completed 4 data missions while using all the auto features, so auto dock, take off and cruise.

3. Upgraded my starting sidewinder and flew 500ly away from my starting position.

So yeah, the time it takes to jump or the jump distance has to change.

The other thing is that why does there have to be a price to pay each week? It's a game right? Not a job. I don't believe in punishment in games like this, it's a horrible way of almost forcing you to play if you want to keep hold of a bunch of sprites that you paid for in-game.

So far as it stands Elite may have had it's time with me and my friend but we still have it installed hoping something comes up but this is not it, not like this.

So far it's expensive, it continues to force you to log in if you want to use it and it's slower at getting 500ly away than a person that does their driving test and goes there in a Sidewinder.

Nope from me, SO FAR.
 
In fact I never wanted Elite MP. I just wanted a new Elite game.

That's interesting. I too would be happy with a completely single-player version of ED.
That said, X4's just had a major content update. It's not as pretty or as slick as ED but it's a mile wide and a mile deep.

And it's single player :D.
 
That's interesting. I too would be happy with a completely single-player version of ED.
That said, X4's just had a major content update. It's not as pretty or as slick as ED but it's a mile wide and a mile deep.

And it's single player :D.
Yes, i looked at it. And I need to have another look. Couldn't get friends with the controls. I might need to download and install a tool to tweak joystick curves after all. Was looking forward to build me own factory complexes again.
 
I'm sure that the management and developers at Frontier are enthusiastic about the new features they bring to their games (in this case, Elite Dangerous). And while they expect some negative feedback, I can't help but think that they have been caught totally off-guard with the level of disappointment, frustration, and disinterest in the latest Fleet Carrier beta. To put all that time, energy, and enthusiasm into a project to just watch it bomb - I know I would be disheartened if this were the response to a project I invested time in.

And yet, I can't fully bring myself to feel bad for Frontier. It seems they are just totally out-of-touch with their customers and player base. I'm not saying this based on what I want or do not want in the game, but rather the overwhelming negative feedback overflowing in the forums and livestreams, even from people who normally are much more generous with their praise of Frontier. I guess if I am going to feel bad for someone, it's the quiet developer working at Frontier who thinks, "This is not what the players want, but the boss tells me this is what I must do, so that's what I'll do." Having worked for such a boss in the past, I do feel bad for those employees at Frontier in this position. Something is obviously broken at Frontier, and I'm guessing it's management / leadership. And sadly, like the recent Charlie's Angels reboot and other terrible movies, they will probably just blame the fans and not own and learn from their mistakes. I hope I'm wrong (there's still time to fix these Fleet Carriers).

Not untrue. But let's understand how we got here.

You have a game that was developed for people who dont want any risk.
They dont want their ships lost. They dont want to lose materials, modules or salvage from getting blown up. They dont want a player market to buy ammo, modules and upgrades from. They want a solo mode so they can fap on their own and assume no risk while stockpiling billions. They want a ban function to cut players out of their gaming experience with no prerequisites (just click ban. Player gone). They want space police in every system. We want a BGS economy so you can always sell you good for profit and dont have to think or understand how a marketplace works.

When you've established all this entitlement and safety. And your player based has matured their game accounts to the point of having nothing to do (which people have been at for a long time). How do you add meaningful content that isn't 100% grind based?

Look at every single update they've released. All grind based. It's all they can do. People cant actually do anything in Elite besides gather pixels. Frontier are so terrified of forum tears that they designed their entire game around giving people every opportunity to avoid conflict. Shocker: people are still to dumb and lazy to manage that.

Now, FCs are released. No surprise. They are indestructible (what a joke). They persist in all play modes. You can have everything a space station has. But, Frontier TRY to introduce some player to player mechanics in the form of a marketplace. But, their own carebear game design is going to prevent this mechanic from succeeding.

You see, there is zero loss. Loss drives the demand. Therefore there is no need for an actual supply. Furthermore, we can get ammunition, modules and ships at any station in the bubble.

Commodities? What value are they? Really? No one actually NEEDS any of it because we can build stuff. So who cares.

I think Frontier are at the point that a lot of MMOs get to. They've a maxed out player base that's been spoiled and protected since day one. The only systems that can create meaningful gameplay would require a complete philosophical shift in game design, or way too much coding.

Just fly your spaceships in space. Those are the things Elite does amazingly. And those were the systems created without customer input. Everything else in Elite is completely pointless and shallow... and you can thank the carebears for that.

Note: I'd also like to add. All this vapid, mega grind is a major deterrent for new players. In order to get in a pvp capable ship, they need to unlock 8 engineers and gather a truckload of mats. And that doesnt include this Guardian crap. How to I maintain their motivation when they stop being amazed by the flight model?
 
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..... I can't help but think that they have been caught totally off-guard with the level of disappointment, frustration, and disinterest in the latest Fleet Carrier beta......
Having listened to them on Lave radio, you may well be correct.
And this, to me, is most worrying of all.
I try so hard to love this game as I used to, but it is getting harder.
 
Thank god for NMS, Avorion and Doom games...

To the Steam store page!!!

I used GOG. This past Sunday, I finally talked myself into downloading a game I'd been researching for months. I'm glad I did, when i did. A couple of days later when FCs were unleashed, my disappointment was extreme and I was glad to be able to play/learn something else. However, I have not given up playing ED, I just do what I used to do (and I didn't join the beta).

And I think I will go do some mining (it can be very relaxing - most of the time).

GL HF Commanders
 
One of the common refrains I have seen is "do they even play their own game?"

Now we have seen them on live streams flying ships, demonstrating features and new things, so yes they do to an extent play their own game, but essentially they don't play it from a regular players perspective, they play it from a developers perspective. Essentially if they want to test out FC's they can just have one, they haven't spent 3+ years playing and earning money to have just enough barely buy a FC, they haven't spent 3+ years playing the game to actually develop a feeling of what they as a player want. That's what customer feedback is for, so hopefully they will read these threads not as an attack on them but as a way to gain knowledge about their rank and file player base and adjust their plans accordingly.

I don't know what feedback they took in to actually change the FC's to what they are now, but I can't imagine any long term players demanding a commodity market. Now that's not to say a commodity market aboard a FC couldn't work, but it would take a whole lot of game adjustments and other economy building to make them worthwhile. It would have been far better to put a fully functional basic fleet carrier in game and think about adding stuff like that later. All they really needed was something to carry ships, repair, refuel, re-arm and a basic shipyard the owner could use to pull in his fleet. No buying or selling from the FC, no module storage or engineering, no Commodity market.

That's all they needed to do and everybody would have been reasonably happy because really that's all we were expecting! Just a workable and affordable FC.

The thing is, some design decisions in Fleet Carriers, you don't even have to be a regular player of the game to see the glaring problems with. I think the posterchild example of that is loading credits into your FC bank. 10,000 credits per click. When the cost of minimal outfitting is in the tens and hundreds of millions. When the carrier costs upwards of 14,000 credits per minute in upkeep. That shows a full disconnect that goes way beyond just tweaking some numbers.
 
I think that all of this talk is just an exaggeration of what FDev has delivered wrong.

It’s not the concept many of us (including me) expected, but it is providing new gameplay options (for free!!!).

It really just takes a few tweaks, mainly change the all the cost, include Explo data, and a few other minor changes and FCs could be fun for a larger playerbase - most of them not so vocal on the forum anyway.

Why not deliver constructive, polite feedback, encourage FD to make these changes necessary? Why not behave like decent, adult people?

Oh, wait...wrong place

Going back to grab popcorn while skiing down the anticipated salt avalanche. Woohoo!
 
Why not deliver constructive, polite feedback, encourage FD to make these changes necessary?
Done:
 
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