I just don't get it - baffled and on the verge of uninstall - Yes I said it!

[A D]

I always shake my head when I see the lamentations of the dedicated explorer crowd. Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, enhancements to the exploration aspect of the game certainly would not be a benefit to just the explorers but indeed all of the players in the game, even those who could care less about traveling from the bubble.

But I can't shake the feeling that you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game. Exploring the vastness of the galaxy is compelling stuff, but it's only a fraction of 1% of the actual gameplay and you guys are really missing out due to such a narrow focus. I want to see a deepening of the scientific aspect of the game, but in the meantime, there is the rest of the game to play.

I sort of agree and I wouldn't want anything I say to be taken as a criticism of the entire game. It is visually stunning in VR and has some really good game play. The sheer number of hours that players regularly rack up on ED is proof of that. I do think however that exploration could be a game changer with some tender loving care.

 

[Trekari]

No supporting evidence.



Subjective.



Again subjective.

No facts here.

People don't play ED to enjoy the Milky Way? What other galaxy do they play in?

Derp!

 

[Susanna]

Really? Exploring is not core-game play in a game built around exploring the largest galaxy ever created in a game (at the time, and still probably the case)?! They've specifically mentioned ALL aspects of the game. And I agree with Marra, your facts are NOT facts... Mine was, as it was taken directly FROM comments by FDev. Exploration will get love, they've stated all aspects of Elite will be looked at and updated to improve the core experience (hell, even PP is expected to get some loving)

I will have to disagree with you that the vast majority of ED customers are here for exploration... There is a sizeable portion that are, but they are dwarfed by the pew-pew'ers and space truckers.

EDIT - Also want to add, I agree exploration needs love, but so does every other aspect of the core exprience, and I wholly expect FDev is including that in their mention of 'core'.

While I agree that exploration should be core game play and should be at the centre of the game, presently I feel that fdev have made pew pew that centre. That maybe because content for explorers takes time to develop and implement. Especially if you want to build a back story like the Guardians and Thargoids. It's easier (at least in principle), to let the player base just shoot at each other while you do that background development. That is fine as long as the long term objective doesn't get rail roaded along the way by the pvp crowd who are never going to be happy with the weapon balance. Sorry, but RNGineers are just a derailment of that greater vision for Elite Dangerous.

I see 2.3 and 2.4 as hopefully opening up the way for a deep and rich background story played out across the galaxy, that is accessible to those willing to go exploring to find it. We have already seen some of that story, the Formadine rift and Salome's story for example. Exploration can and will become a great and wonderful thing to be part of within Elite Dangerous, it needs to be the centre stage if the game is to last and become an enduring legacy for DB and IB. So I think we just need patience while fdev put that in place.

What I do find frustrating, is how little attention this key / critical game element has had so far. This needs to be given the Royal seat within the game to smooth what it will ultimately become. Bookmarks and planetary views within the system map were welcome but stellar cartography these features currently are not. Presently, it's like the pauper is going to turn out to be the hidden King. I think we will see a big improvement in 3.x of the exploration features within the game and hopefully, exploration will take the throne it deserves.

TL;DR 3.x will hopefully give exploration a key and pivotal story telling role within the game and will come to dominate the game as it's key content grows.

 

[MrFailfactory]

I always shake my head when I see the lamentations of the dedicated explorer crowd. Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, enhancements to the exploration aspect of the game certainly would not be a benefit to just the explorers but indeed all of the players in the game, even those who could care less about traveling from the bubble.

But I can't shake the feeling that you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game. Exploring the vastness of the galaxy is compelling stuff, but it's only a fraction of 1% of the actual gameplay and you guys are really missing out due to such a narrow focus. I want to see a deepening of the scientific aspect of the game, but in the meantime, there is the rest of the game to play.

On top of this, a large portion of the new (actual) content that has been put in the game in the last year or so has been with Explorers in mind, if not at the forefront. One of those things in particular is specifically asked for in almost every Improve Exploration thread; finding Alien Ruins. Well, they put quite a number of them in the game to find, and you can even interact with them, and be part of the story behind them, to boot! The Generation Ships, the Dynasty Bases, The Zurara, everything involving Unknown Probes, Unknown Artifacts, the crash sites, the Barnacles, and now, the Thargoid Bases. If you ask the vocal Exploration Community, however, these things aren't Exploration content...and the reason, is because we "don't have good tools for finding them." Well...they have been found, and in quite large numbers, so I'm not really sure how that argument holds any water.

I get that visually looking for these things isn't the most fun thing in the world to do, and neither is the Drop Zone technique. I too, would like to see better ways of going about finding the things. My issue with the vocal Exploration complainers is that their complaints are kind of a slap in the face to Frontier. Even though the methods of Exploration haven't gotten a lot of love outside of some quality of life Engineer upgrades, Explorers have gotten a great deal of real content in Season 2 compared to any other style of play. I'm curious to know what new (actual) content Traders and Combat folks have received in Season 2 that rivals the size, scope, and depth of the things that I have mentioned already.

Keep on Frontier for improvements to Exploration mechanics, certainly, but the Exploration community should stop acting like Exploration has been ignored, because it just isn't true.

Riôt

 

[Susanna]

I think the bulk of the angst comes from the botched expansion (2.3) that promised much and delivered little in terms of actual gameplay improvements. Not to mention the networking problems we've all been experiencing the last couple of weeks since 2.3 dropped. All I've done with my elite time is fiddle about with Graphics settings as the game doesn't run as smoothly as it used to even though the graphical assets haven't been altered.

I'm sure that I am not the only one that is suffering with the effects of nerf to income, nerfs to gameplay, a game that reward you for doing what the developers want as opposed to 'blaze your own way,' (passenger missions anyone), nerf to the networking (particularly bad today with it taking ages to load systems in witch space etc) and of course beige worlds, that are fundamentally the same with nothing interesting to look at on them. No wonder the OP is annoyed and I feel his pain, I'm sure many of us do.

All of the above adds to the general feeling that ED was a better quality game in it's past and that the focus of the 100 strong developer team at FD isn't ED anymore, it's actually localising the game for other platforms and expanding the marketing base for the vanity store. We know it's a matter of record that FD were disappointed with sales of Horizons and something changed at FD between 2.0 and 2.1 the games direction fundamentally changed from bold new features and massive amounts of development time to bare bones features and minimal amounts of dev time.

That's what the OP is annoyed about and to a mild degree so am I. As far as I am concerned 2.4 had better be extraordinary we have been promised much and given little. If 2.4 doesn't bring about an improvement in the core game as promised, if existing features aren't expanded (multi-crew for explorers, engineer positions in ships etc) then FD is doomed.

I agree with much that you have to say here. As from my previous post, exploration does need to be centre stage, but I think that will not truly happen until 4.x. Why? Because 3.x will be the building of those core game features, while 4.x will be actually implicating them and engaging the player base in those features. So, be prepared to be patient, very patient...

 

[Susanna]

On top of this, a large portion of the new (actual) content that has been put in the game in the last year or so has been with Explorers in mind, if not at the forefront. One of those things in particular is specifically asked for in almost every Improve Exploration thread; finding Alien Ruins. Well, they put quite a number of them in the game to find, and you can even interact with them, and be part of the story behind them, to boot! The Generation Ships, the Dynasty Bases, The Zurara, everything involving Unknown Probes, Unknown Artifacts, the crash sites, the Barnacles, and now, the Thargoid Bases. If you ask the vocal Exploration Community, however, these things aren't Exploration content...and the reason, is because we "don't have good tools for finding them." Well...they have been found, and in quite large numbers, so I'm not really sure how that argument holds any water.

I get that visually looking for these things isn't the most fun thing in the world to do, and neither is the Drop Zone technique. I too, would like to see better ways of going about finding the things. My issue with the vocal Exploration complainers is that their complaints are kind of a slap in the face to Frontier. Even though the methods of Exploration haven't gotten a lot of love outside of some quality of life Engineer upgrades, Explorers have gotten a great deal of real content in Season 2 compared to any other style of play. I'm curious to know what new (actual) content Traders and Combat folks have received in Season 2 that rivals the size, scope, and depth of the things that I have mentioned already.

Keep on Frontier for improvements to Exploration mechanics, certainly, but the Exploration community should stop acting like Exploration has been ignored, because it just isn't true.

Riôt

My point in post #83, you just said it much better than I did

I think the main whinge Explorers have is about the lack of exploration base game mechanics (tools). Those tools will hopefully come, but not any day soon sadly. Whatever fdev do decide to implement, it needs to feel very SciFi!

 

[Mohrgan]

To add to the notion that Explorers have been afforded some, unrecognized, love is evidenced by the whole Passenger mechanic. Ships, POI's, UI's the works have showed up, while being clamored for, it drops, peeps say 'nice', and cry beige. The POI's were even part of a 'mail in contest' for Explorers to show off sights they have discovered. But, that was expected we want... colorization. It's baffling.

 

[deckroid]

Look here FD, let me lay out some facts you already know...

The vast majority of your customers play Elite to enjoy the Milky way (FACT) you created based on 'what we know now' and what a blooming fantastic job you did! (FACT) ... some 3 years + ago...
Since then you have slowly but surely degraded your work (FACT), I would not mind if it had just stayed the same!

That last one is not a (FACT), it is an (OPINION). While I agree that I find some of the things FDev does peculiar, I do not agree that they are actively working to undo all the fantastical work that has gone into the game. Are there problems? Yes. Do I agree with everything? No. Am I a White Hat Fan Boy? Not so much. This does not negate your feelings or opinion of this game. But if you are going to go, just go. Why do all the folks who toss their hands up in the air with disgust feel the need for all this falderall and writing of a manifesto? Just uninstall, install the latest Spunkgargleweewee game and go enjoy life.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Surprise poll finds no one happy in internet age shocker!

 

[Franc Kaos]

I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk...
I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan...
I would like to see processes that were a little more involved...

All seem like general statements of intent. I would think that 2.4 is in 'let's get this finished' mode, and that 3.0 would be feature locked and actively being worked on. If 3.0 is still in discussion and working things out mode then I can't see it being dropped till the fall of 2018 - at the earliest. Those statements feel like 'things we're going to look at' not things being programmed.

In all fairness, Fdev (at least with ED), are not the most prolific content providers, one man developer SpaceEngine has more updates in a year than this game (I don't know about Planet Coaster / new IP). After all, it took a small team a year to pretty up and release HoloMe, a part of the engine used to design the NPCs from the beginning, same with the external camera (and still no orrery after 3 years).

It's nice the devs are starting to open up about future developments but I do wish it were Star Citizen level discussion (whether that game ever comes out or not it's fascinating to watch the thing unfurl), and all this nonsense about fans getting upset when X doesn't drop in Y is just that, nonsense. When you have a (even monthly) dev report on things being worked on, things in the future, things delayed you get a fan / developer loyalty building up that can be hard to break (check out some of the white knights on the SC reddit subs).

Things to do before 3.0 drops: Give Galnet a makeover, make it more WWW ish, give your CMs more freedom to discuss the nuts and bolts of the game, integrate the external ED websites into Galnet and surprise drop release an Orrery to enhance the current system map. Future plans; put some sand in the sandbox! Cheers.

 

[MarkAusten]

Really? Exploring is not core-game play in a game built around exploring the largest galaxy ever created in a game (at the time, and still probably the case)?! They've specifically mentioned ALL aspects of the game. And I agree with Marra, your facts are NOT facts... Mine was, as it was taken directly FROM comments by FDev. Exploration will get love, they've stated all aspects of Elite will be looked at and updated to improve the core experience (hell, even PP is expected to get some loving)

I will have to disagree with you that the vast majority of ED customers are here for exploration... There is a sizeable portion that are, but they are dwarfed by the pew-pew'ers and space truckers.

EDIT - Also want to add, I agree exploration needs love, but so does every other aspect of the core exprience, and I wholly expect FDev is including that in their mention of 'core'.

Where do you get the evidence for this statement, please? There are a number of commanders who are trying to put together some sort of reliable statistics, so if you would tell us where you got this from it would be helpful. Thanks.

Exploration is one of the three 'elite-able' professions....

That always makes me laugh.

Why?

 

[Ziljan]

I always shake my head when I see the lamentations of the dedicated explorer crowd. Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, enhancements to the exploration aspect of the game certainly would not be a benefit to just the explorers but indeed all of the players in the game, even those who could care less about traveling from the bubble.

But I can't shake the feeling that you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game. Exploring the vastness of the galaxy is compelling stuff, but it's only a fraction of 1% of the actual gameplay and you guys are really missing out due to such a narrow focus. I want to see a deepening of the scientific aspect of the game, but in the meantime, there is the rest of the game to play.

Um Jason I think you have it backwards man. While I agree that the lions share of gameplay lies inside the bubble, the lack of gameplay out in the Black isn't the fault of Explorers. These guys signed on to dive into a huge swarm of stars and go where no one has gone before, etc. It shouldn't be on them to "realize" what they are missing in the bubble. It should be on Frontier to provide the gameplay and content that their players actually want. And to my thrill and delight, they are finally doing just that

Granted I was one of those lucky Explorers who were able to make that transition into a BGS/Combat pilot, but that was a personal compromise I made, and was fueled by my passion to explore too, but this time the inner workings of the game itself.

 

[MarkAusten]

The gal map doesn't seem to be as functional as it used to be in the sense that it's a bit more laborious to navigate because instead of being able to click on any star and zoom right to it, now you have to manually manipulate your view until you're almost centered on the object you want to look at more closely. Honestly, it is kind of irritating, but not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Other than gal map issues, exploration remains the same as ever. I was pretty intrigued by exploration at first, enough to draw me out of the bubble on some lengthy adventures, but ultimately I find it to be quite shallow.

It's funny that we speak in terms of "adding more content for exploration" when in truth that content would benefit everybody with a richening of the entire games "world."

Strangely enough, this seems to be the result of complaints from players about the slow loading of the map. Now only a small portion of the map is loaded centred around your current position to speed things up and if you want to see outside of that you have either to click on a system near the edge and get that bit loaded or scroll out. I could be wrong about this, but that's the way it seems to work now.

 

[MarkAusten]

You've given links to forum polls, which are neither FACTS nor evidence.

Less than 10% of the player base visits the forums (so we were told some time back), so forum polls do not represent the view of the player base at all and are not facts.
And the poll on professions allowed people to pick 2 options, so it's not an accurate poll for even the forum users - as you do not know how many people picked exploration as a 2nd job or part time job within the game.

The OP contains NO FACTS or NO EVIDENCE whatsoever. Just personal opinions and links to irrelevant data.

As a matter of interest do you have a link to that. It would be very helpful to those of us who are trying to get some reliable stats. Thanks.

 

[Ziljan]

Unfortunately, I agree.

And I understand OP's frustration.

Why "unfortunately"? The future of exploration looks bright, and there is plenty of time to get old and new people back into Elite. And tbh, it's not like the game is hurting for players atm. The galaxy is plenty lively.

Tbh, my only worry is that exploration will entice so many people to leave the bubble that meeting people in Open will be a chore. But if they fix Multicrew networking and benefits, and/or give some faster travel options (via thargoid tech etc) then it won't be a huge issue. And perhaps more significantly, if they make the exploration mechanic compelling enough, then simply going to nearby unknown systems, and even known systems, should be fun.

 

[MarkAusten]

I always shake my head when I see the lamentations of the dedicated explorer crowd. Don't get me wrong, as I said earlier, enhancements to the exploration aspect of the game certainly would not be a benefit to just the explorers but indeed all of the players in the game, even those who could care less about traveling from the bubble.

But I can't shake the feeling that you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game. Exploring the vastness of the galaxy is compelling stuff, but it's only a fraction of 1% of the actual gameplay and you guys are really missing out due to such a narrow focus. I want to see a deepening of the scientific aspect of the game, but in the meantime, there is the rest of the game to play.

One does not have to play everything in the game. It seems to be that you have a check list of everything in the game and you have to play every item on that list. We play those parts of the game that are of interest to us and ignore the rest. I, for example, will never play the part of pirate, smuggler or combat pilot because these do not interest me. I have tried them out and they are nothing to me. You comment "you guys are missing out on so much of the rest of the game" is maybe how you feel but it is irrelevant to me.

 

[Cervantes01]

I agree it's long been obvious that the biggest untapped potential of the game has been in Exploration of a 400-Billion-star galaxy, and I firmly belief that delaying that development has cost Frontier a significant amount of unrealized income, by failing to give Exploration enough depth to attract a wider audience. I mean, Ziggy said "exploration used to be good" but tbh, for most players, Exploration has always been at best a placeholder mechanic, and not ready for prime time, and certainly not good enough to be showcased at places like PAX, GAMESCOM, or E3. And word-of-mouth advertising for Exploration has been abysmal as well, since the vast majority of people go maybe 2000 LY out, get instantly bored by honk+point-&-wait mechanics, and then go back to the bubble to wait for Exploration to "get good".

That fact that Sandro has verbally and publicly recognized the need for reform is a GREAT and positive sign! Once they can actually showcase a solid Exploration mechanic (especially with atmospheres/gas giants), then they will be able to leverage their 400 Billion stars and have a solid rebuttal to the looming Star Citizen player-drain that is getting closer every month.

The golden question is can anyone trust FD not to come up with new mechanics that don't involve a casino in some way or another. I'd hate it if exploration changed to be RNG based, i.e. drop a probe, push a button and it detects random elements in the star system. This is the feeling I get when Sandro muses over changes to exploration.

FD love RNG they think it will make us addicted to the game, but addiction and enjoyment are not the same thing. It's actually a big turn off, yet it's everywhere for example I did a planetary scan mission (it's the last remaining way of earning semi-decent money,) I found the base, landed the ship then realised that I forgot the SRV, I took of and bought one at a nearby station, I returned to the planet and lo and behold had to hunt for the base all over again. Known elements that have already been 'discovered' are not persistent. This is pretty lazy design if you ask me and I worry that the future is going to be full of more of it.

Strangely enough, this seems to be the result of complaints from players about the slow loading of the map. Now only a small portion of the map is loaded centred around your current position to speed things up and if you want to see outside of that you have either to click on a system near the edge and get that bit loaded or scroll out. I could be wrong about this, but that's the way it seems to work now.

So the fact that you can't click a star that is directly in front of you and dead centre of the map is the players fault. It wouldn't be poor design and testing by FD by any chance?

 

[gooddoc]

Iv played ED since day 1 & Im still playing it now, my main role by far, is Exploration.

Do I think that exploration is worse now than the early days? No! it's better, but not much.

There have been improvements, included being able to plot 1000LYs instead of 100, being able to place bookmarks in the galaxy map, first discovery tags, the system map is way better, selling off data in blocks of 50 instead of individually.

The problem here is that FD has concentrated since day 1 on 'pewpew' & everything else has got left well behind. Each update put in place new & improved ways to blow up anything that moved, but exploration was left with only a tiny improvement here & there.
I used to post about it a lot in the early days, but now Iv come to realise, FD will only do what FD want to do & FD will follow the current market trends & aim purely for the pewpew kiddies fan base.

It's sad to see each update giving ME very little in terms of new stuff, just hoping that in the future they will give Exploration even 5% of the love they give pewpew.

I don't bother any more with what FD have to say about future update stuff, I just wait for it to be released & ignore the pewpew stuff - most of it, (like I have with previous updates).

 

[Enderby]

Why?

Because exploration's current implementation is so very poor.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

The problem here is that FD has concentrated since day 1 on 'pewpew' & everything else has got left well behind. Each update put in place new & improved ways to blow up anything that moved, but exploration was left with only a tiny improvement here & there.

This statement is a complete load of . FD have adjusted some sliders in the game for pew balance, that's about all. The greater development effort has been towards things that is for explorers.

• The SUV is far more for exploration than pew
• Barnacles
• All the vacuum life forms
• Everything to do with Colonia
• Neutron stars
• Explorer passengers
• Fumaroles and geysers
• Megaships
• Asteroid bases
• Guardian ruins
• Thargoids have so far been all exploration

No exploration content, yeah right.