I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The OP could have simply made a suggestion that there be a prefix/suffix/sirname function inserted into the Character Creation screen, for whatever purpose, and nobody here would have batted an eye.


I am more than happy to discuss the suggestion, as I'm sure others are, without making this about the OP or anyone else. However since the OP asserted that personal identity was absolutely of primary importance to the suggestion itself, I have no idea how to navigate such a discussion while saying within the rules of this forum - if we cannot address that identity at all. It seems like a minefield, at best, to even attempt such. I am seeking guidance on this for sure, not levying judgement or opinions of moderation in ANY WAY to be clear. And to stay within the rules. Guidance, please, nothing more.

To be clear: I wholeheartedly support such a function that would allow people to insert any surname/prefix/suffix in said name at time of character creation or other time - within the rules and in good taste to be clear. It could have been made that simple without the need for some of the line-blurring identity politics which people may or may not find at odds with their chosen ideology or governing principles.

So in closing: Can you have a box where you input such said gender pronouns or other such titles for your character? Yup, absolutely, no issue with that for me. Was there a reason you couldn't have simply stated it as such without all the....other personal stuff? That's not for me to answer or guess on.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

it goes both ways. i would have trouble identifying if op's request is a plea for human decency (whatever that should mean, go ask a pig or an orangutan what they think about human decency) or simply attention seeking and trolling, in which case he might be quite indecently trivializing the suffering of people that get really harmed by stereotypes.

mess about pronouns. for avatars. in a game. which hasn't any. have we let that sink in yet after page 9?

Well, I understand where you’re coming from, certainly on the issue regarding asking a pig about human decency, however, in the other thread that was about slavery, I made a post about always asking the question when it comes to things of this sort of nature, where we examine social norms, matters of taste, inclusion and so on. So even if this thread was started by a troll, which I personally don’t believe it was, it asks a question, which we then reflect on. It becomes less about who asked and why and more about the answer and why, for me.

50-50 I think. If I may use the terms "right" and "left" loosely, I believe "cancel culture" was invented by the right to complain about the left not listening to them enough, but "woke" was invented by the left to indicate that they're better than the right.

I personally don’t recall ever seeing people on the left describing themselves as woke and even if that is where it originated, it is certainly used more by the right I suspect these days. I could be wrong

 

[Chrystoph]

Never said that people specifically ask me my gender but just assume my gender is male off the get go. Please read the rest of the thread instead of strawmanning

Simple solution, although it flies in the face of good manners; from now on, @uberx24 shall be referred to as, "Hey, You!"

There, now your secondary sexual characteristics don't matter... Oh, wait, Commander, they never did to anyone except You!

 

[Eeka]

Look me up ingame, same username. I dare you. Its also surreal that I am somehow caught up in a conspiracy I never knew to demoralize gamers. Please remember I am asking for 2 simple things, nothing more.

Yup, you're not motivated by politics at all.

 

[uberx24]

The OP could have simply made a suggestion that there be a prefix/suffix/sirname function inserted into the Character Creation screen, for whatever purpose, and nobody here would have batted an eye.


I am more than happy to discuss the suggestion, as I'm sure others are, without making this about the OP or anyone else. However since the OP asserted that personal identity was absolutely of primary importance to the suggestion itself, I have no idea how to navigate such a discussion while saying within the rules of this forum - if we cannot address that identity at all. It seems like a minefield, at best, to even attempt such. I am seeking guidance on this for sure, not levying judgement or opinions of moderation in ANY WAY to be clear. And to stay within the rules. Guidance, please, nothing more.

To be clear: I wholeheartedly support such a function that would allow people to insert any surname/prefix/suffix in said name at time of character creation or other time - within the rules and in good taste to be clear. It could have been made that simple without the need for some of the line-blurring identity politics which people may or may not find at odds with their chosen ideology or governing principles.

So in closing: Can you have a box where you input such said gender pronouns or other such titles for your character? Yup, absolutely, no issue with that for me. Was there a reason you couldn't have simply stated it as such without all the....other personal stuff? That's not for me to answer or guess on.

You could've suggested that and I'd totally be on board with that. I used my gender identity to explain why I am making my stance rather than make it the argument.

 

[Ethaidan]

The government represents the people. The vast majority of people do not believe that non-binary is a gender. The vast majority of people are also polite and people are generally non-confrontational.

That is grossly inaccurate. Perhaps you should update your information before spewing misinformation to support your opinion.

In the most recent large scale poll on gender identity (across all 623 constituencies in advance of the 2019 general election). There was a single, quite revealing question about gender:

"Is it acceptable for adolescent children to make their own decisions about their gender identity?"

9% strongly agreed
28% mildly agreed
33% meh
18% mildly disagreed
12% strongly dissgreed

Attitudes towards gender & gender identity have changed quite significantly in the past decade. Taking into account that this survey only had access to those of voting age, the shift in the next ten years should be even more marked.

And then (again) we'll here lots of people retrofitting their personal history to claim they were always in support of trans/non-binary rights.

 

[d8veh]

6) ETA: My partner has suggested the possibility of free simple pride flag decals, which I think could work.

Should we then be able to have MAGA, hammer and sickel, wheelchair, Fathers for Justice, Union jacks, Welsh dragons, democrat donkeys and swastica decals as well? Why would you want anything that divides us by identifying someone as a particular group? The best thing about gaming is that you don't know anything about the people you play with, which makes everybody equal.

 

[znôrt]

the right to complain about the left not listening to them enough, but "woke" was invented by the left to indicate that they're better than the right.

reducing political and ideological debate to apparent cultural extremes is an excellent way to keep the masses distracted. this is basically why democracy is allowed to exist: it lets people argue about the irrelevant stuff and thus allows the relevant stuff (i.e. business) to go on unabated.

Well, I understand where you’re coming from, certainly on the issue regarding asking a pig about human decency, however, in the other thread that was about slavery, I made a post about always asking the question when it comes to things of this sort of nature, where we examine social norms, matters of taste, inclusion and so on. So even if this thread was started by a troll, which I personally don’t believe it was, it asks a question, which we then reflect on.

yeah fair enough. i did contribute my view about the larger issue. i acknowledge it and i understand we need to improve on that. however, i simply question that op is making a reasonable case, and i'm afraid that making bad cases harms more than helps. which is imo important to point out too.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

You could've suggested that and I'd totally be on board with that. I used my personal identity to explain why I am making my stance rather than make it the argument.

Why is that relevant?

I want better control options in Elite for gamepad users on PC, because I believe keyboard and mouse users have an advantage. However a personal reason for this for me, is that I have arthritis in my hands and keyboard and mouse play causes me pain.

If I were to argue my case as you have, I would accuse others of disagreeing with me as being bad "ableist" people, and that I felt oppressed that they are pushing back on my suggestion. That they were arguing I be kept in physical pain if I wanted the accuracy they had flying their ships, so I felt threatened and not safe etc etc.

The reason I wouldn't argue my gamepad suggestion that way? Because I should full-well know right off the bat there's no way that ends in a constructive debate.

Just food for thought.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

reducing political and ideological debate to apparent cultural extremes is an excellent way to keep the masses distracted. this is basically why democracy is allowed to exist: it lets people argue about the irrelevant stuff and thus allows the relevant stuff (i.e. business) to go on unabated.

yeah fair enough. i did contribute my view about the larger issue. i acknowledge it and i understand we need to improve on that. however, i simply question that op is making a reasonable case, and i'm afraid that making bad cases harms more than helps. which is imo important to point out too.

We are agreed, particularly about democracy but as I don’t want (another) ban, I shall leave it there.

 

[Rat Catcher]

but as I don’t want (another) ban

We have both walked that path - it was great to see you re-appear - staying a little longer would be very nice

 

[Sir.Tj]

As before, please be respectful of others opinions and viewpoints.

 

[uberx24]

Why is that relevant?

I want better control options in Elite for gamepad users on PC, because I believe keyboard and mouse users have an advantage. However a personal reason for this for me, is that I have arthritis in my hands and keyboard and mouse play causes me pain.

If I were to argue my case as you have, I would accuse others of disagreeing with me as being bad "ableist" people, and that I felt oppressed that they are pushing back on my suggestion. That they were arguing I be kept in physical pain if I wanted the accuracy they had flying their ships, so I felt threatened and not safe etc etc.

The reason I wouldn't argue my gamepad suggestion that way? Because I should full-well know right off the bat there's no way that ends in a constructive debate.

Just food for thought.

At this point the repetitive nature of these statements are getting old. I've conceded way earlier in this thread (around the first or second page) that others had better ideas and I'd go for theirs over mine. Said it several times. I am not being uncomprising or uncivil because then I'd be much more advocated towards my original point. My willingness to also say that adding the sirname option is a better articulation of what I was originally aiming for, being optional was the original topic. I am glad we're going to get back to the original point here.

 

[Sasha Terra]

50-50 I think. If I may use the terms "right" and "left" loosely, I believe "cancel culture" was invented by the right to complain about the left not listening to them enough, but "woke" was invented by the left to indicate that they're better than the right.

I personally don’t recall ever seeing people on the left describing themselves as woke and even if that is where it originated, it is certainly used more by the right I suspect these days. I could be wrong

As far as I know, 'woke' has its origin in African-American communities, where it means 'aware of continuing systemic injustice'. Its adoption by people on the left (and yes, I have seen non-black lefties self-identifying with it) has been a mix of solidarity and appropriation, and it had already started to drown out its originators' use of it, before it was taken up by the right as a rhetorical 'boo-word'. But it's now almost entirely used (like 'political correctness' before it) to attack an imagined opponent, or the imagined qualities of a real opponent, in preference to engaging with what's actually under discussion.

 

[Chase Quinnell]

Let's just continue calling each other commander and call it good okay? No need to add anything anything

 

[znôrt]

3) Some of you who say "I don't care about your gender identity, but stop rubbing it in my face" are telling on yourselves. We're not required to be invisible

yet you are not entitled to be taken seriously when spouting nonsense, like this op very much. live and let live, right?

6) ETA: My partner has suggested the possibility of free simple pride flag decals, which I think could work.

yeah, i remember that one!

 

[Vetinari]

I've conceded way earlier in this thread (around the first or second page) that others had better ideas and I'd go for theirs over mine.

So if I met you in game or saw your name on a ship in SC or saw you in chat what would I see?

 

[Vedmo]

If we’re going to venture into ‘They’re putting something in the water that is turning the frogs gay’ conspiracy realms, I have one of my own.

At the heart of most of these discussions, as has been stated here, more than once, is just basic manners, politeness and a bit of human decency.

People create terms such as Woke or Cancel Culture because you can then easily tell people that you hate this load of woke nonsense, rather than say ‘I hate this stuff about politeness, manners and human decency.‘

That was actually referring to UC Berkley studies about pesticides biologically changing the reproductive organs of male frogs to the point they could lay eggs. I live in a rural area and drink well water. I would at least be concerned to the point of wanting more info if those pesticides were in my water.

I won't argue the delivery was not sensationalized or defend the person in general, but "they" are most certainly being reckless in polluting our environment with chemicals (hormones in things we eat as well) that could have undesirable consequences for humans. It's a shame some of the loudest voices are fringe nut jobs, as more conventional and respected voices would do better in raising broader awareness and more importantly action. Instead though, we can just classify it as conspiracy realm and dismiss it rather than say I hate this stuff about being decent to other humans and not letting chemicals run into waterways.

 

[uberx24]

So if I met you in game or saw your name on a ship in SC or saw you in chat what would I see?

Well rn I am waiting for my name change request to be processed. You'll see if you check my updated inara

Edit: to properly answer the question it will hopefully be changed to Cmdr uberx24 (they/them)

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

That was actually referring to UC Berkley studies about pesticides biologically changing the reproductive organs of male frogs to the point they could lay eggs. I live in a rural area and drink well water. I would at least be concerned to the point of wanting more info if those pesticides were in my water.

I won't argue the delivery was not sensationalized or defend the person in general, but "they" are most certainly being reckless in polluting our environment with chemicals (hormones in things we eat as well) that could have undesirable consequences for humans. It's a shame some of the loudest voices are fringe nut jobs, as more conventional and respected voices would do better in raising broader awareness and more importantly action. Instead though, we can just classify it as conspiracy realm and dismiss it rather than say I hate this stuff about being decent to other humans and not letting chemicals run into waterways.

It was perhaps the wrong one to choose, apologies.