[IDEA] What about a community driven "CMDRs to avoid" list..

Changing the subject though. This list that I'm proposing literally already exists and has been built upon for the previous year an a half with new entries added in each encounter deeming entry, but it has been internal to AA with well over 200 entries. You can deny it or not, but most player groups have a MASSIVE KOS list.. The general public does NOT have access to this resource. You're complaining about something not needing to exist when it already does in tons of different iterations. Because of our list we are able to very accurately figure out what people are up to in our area and I'm just trying to be nice and allow the public access.

Highlighted the main point for you. The key to your list is that you trust the AA members who create the entries. How would Adle's Archangels trust CMDR JoeSchmoe when he wants to add CMDR SealClubber to that list - and how can other CMDRs trust that Adle's Archvillains do not use this list to propagate their own KOS goals?

Assume that there are two lists - one by Adle's Archvillains, containing all known members of a sinister organisation named The Café, and a second list from the renowned organistaion The Café, containing all known members of Adle's Archvillains. And both of those lists were publicly readable - and publicly extendable? Or assume CMDR MagicHash, associated with The Café, publicly wants to add CMDR Polyester, associated with Adle's Archvillains, to that list - because Polyester once killed MagicHash, and had that documented?

As long as such lists are private to a closed player group, they're ok - the potential for abuse is small, you trust your fellow commanders. As soon as you go public, you'll either have to trust everyone - or you'll have to verify each and every entry on that list, defend it against people wanting to remove it and leaving yourselves wide open to any claims of partiality. You're effectively enthroning yourselves as judges. Don't go that way.

Let me try another formulation: as long as such a list is local to a player group, it is (arguably) still in-game. As soon as you go public, or just outside your player group, you transcend this boundary and make this list part of the "Real World". And the real world has lots of ways of making that backfire to you.

There are probably several reasons why FD don't maintain such a list, at least in public. The workload to the maintainers and the potential for abuse are probably two of them.
 
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Goose4291

Banned
Anyway, false reports would be the real issue. The OP mentions it, but I think it was underestimated as to how much trouble a few people could cause. Presumably, the main reason "Naming and Shaming" is against forum rules is due to unverifiable claims (and the resulting witchhunting).

Exactly right, particularly when it'll be up to certain individuals to be trusted to administrate it and not use it for group politicking...

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Remove the sidey-suicide option to avoid bounties. This will make people think twice about taking every mission based only on value and make CMDR finally have to take sides. Implement a galactic bounty board (pirates will fight for the highest bounty in the verse) and a local bounty board (hosted on galnet or galmap).

Why wouldn't every faction in the game want to share their bounties?


I know this is a re hash of the ideas previously listed to take place of Silk's idea, I want to point out this is NOT the same as Silk's idea. If I understand right these aren't even exclusive ideas.


All the AA list would do is give traders and noobs a list of people to run from. Chances are anyone who wants to use the list for negative purposes (hunt every CMDR on list) will be doing that anyways around eravate or CG s. Any false reports would be removed. You don't even have to work hard for it. Have every entry last one week. If you're good for a week you are off the list.
 
I'm very confused why the sidey-suicide is allowed.... ridiculous.

But the real comedy is hearing the gankers getting their knickers in a twist over an "avoid" list when they have "kill on sight" lists.

You must be quaking in your boots.
 
Its probably not the same but the only people i've ever put on kill on sight were combat loggers, I've never met anyone else who was deserving of an automatic response like that whenever you see them. (though i'm also no ganker)

This is just a different angle on the same problem though, they need to overhaul crime and punishment there really isn't a community solution to what needs to be in the game as a core principle.
 
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These 3 here summed it up perfectly


And that is how it should remain.

You're doing a good thing in Eravate by protecting the new players - keep your image clean and don't get involved in public smear campaigns (as that is what it will devolve into)





Come on now .. isn't this why groups like yours exist ? To protect these helpless T6 traders ? ;)

If bandits are that much of a nuisance get together with your allies and start announcing "this CG at location X will be protected by AA ... if you need an escort contact CMDR Y in game"

You are full of yourselves lol. I've not been to Eravate for a very long time and generally don't condone pwning noobs but I don't like your attitude so I'll likely make an exception in your case. And as for killing me till I have no resources left, good look with that. ;)



An internal KOS list is fine and no ones business but your own but when you publically publish it 'Cmdrs to avoid' (blacklist) based upon your own perception of what is fair play, griefing, and so on thats when it becomes problematic.

With this all said we all have free will. Do as you please. Looks like noob is back on the menu boys :p

Highlighted the main point for you. The key to your list is that you trust the AA members who create the entries. How would Adle's Archangels trust CMDR JoeSchmoe when he wants to add CMDR SealClubber to that list - and how can other CMDRs trust that Adle's Archvillains do not use this list to propagate their own KOS goals?

Assume that there are two lists - one by Adle's Archvillains, containing all known members of a sinister organisation named The Café, and a second list from the renowned organistaion The Café, containing all known members of Adle's Archvillains. And both of those lists were publicly readable - and publicly extendable? Or assume CMDR MagicHash, associated with The Café, publicly wants to add CMDR Polyester, associated with Adle's Archvillains, to that list - because Polyester once killed MagicHash, and had that documented?

As long as such lists are private to a closed player group, they're ok - the potential for abuse is small, you trust your fellow commanders. As soon as you go public, you'll either have to trust everyone - or you'll have to verify each and every entry on that list, defend it against people wanting to remove it and leaving yourselves wide open to any claims of partiality. You're effectively enthroning yourselves as judges. Don't go that way.

Let me try another formulation: as long as such a list is local to a player group, it is (arguably) still in-game. As soon as you go public, or just outside your player group, you transcend this boundary and make this list part of the "Real World". And the real world has lots of ways of making that backfire to you.

There are probably several reasons why FD don't maintain such a list, at least in public. The workload to the maintainers and the potential for abuse are probably two of them.


side note: The Café, yes the sinister organization working in behalf of Moka Decaff fighting the 3 superpowers known as the Americano, Espresso and Affogato :D
 
Fighting back is awesome, but one must also be a realist about this. Most people just aren't going to have a fully fledged PvP build sitting around or even yet the ability to fight off wings of CMDRs or even a really skilled one with it.ED is a game of travel and very few groups stick around the same system almost 100% of the time. It's just simply unrealistic for the novel idea of the T6 trader who was killed at a CG to go to the station, pick up his trusty FDL and take out the wing that just killed him. This tool isn't even for those kinds of people, they are for open play CMDRs looking to avoid enemies and being able to identify them.

Your comments around hunting people until they cannot afford to fight, could be considered harassment and or abuse under the EULA and ToS for the game and servers. If getting your members reported and potentially impacted by their actions, based on some misplaced desire to be a virtual batman, go crazy.

I don't see the value of a list that is always going to be abusable; justify it anyway you like, but it doesn't change the facts.
 
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A community driven "Wanted List" would slightly give Criminals in the ED Universe what the Game can´t offer till today - a Punishment System. Even the Wild West had "Wanted Lists". I don´t say that killing players is false but I don´t understand why it´s not possible to release a list in the year 3302 with criminal activitys or players or dangerous areas. Every Player who kills innocent Pilots should be ready for a Bounty Hunter who is searching for them. It´s like in Star Wars when Han Solo don´t bring the cargo back to the costumer :D

At least a Thread with "Player Emergency Signals" should be nice with informations about the Location and the Problem (Names are not needed ^^).
 
A community driven "Wanted List" would slightly give Criminals in the ED Universe what the Game can´t offer till today - a Punishment System. Even the Wild West had "Wanted Lists". I don´t say that killing players is false but I don´t understand why it´s not possible to release a list in the year 3302 with criminal activitys or players or dangerous areas. Every Player who kills innocent Pilots should be ready for a Bounty Hunter who is searching for them. It´s like in Star Wars when Han Solo don´t bring the cargo back to the costumer :D

2 things:

1) FD are going to be revisiting the Crime and Punishment process during 2.1 Engineer update.
2) There is a list (albeit limited in size) to the top 5 "most wanted". Sandro did say at some point that they were considering a Galactic bounty system which may address your concerns.
 
I agree that false reports could be a real issue. Just like SDC infiltrated the PVE server, the wrong people could get access and corrupt the public record. This is probably why this kind of stuff is against FD policy. It also creates a negative witch hunting atmosphere that isn't even necessary if the rules of ED are enforced in game.

What we really need is higher quality high security systems. And those are coming in 2.1
 
Its probably not the same but the only people i've ever put on kill on sight were combat loggers, I've never met anyone else who was deserving of an automatic response like that whenever you see them. (though i'm also no ganker)

This is just a different angle on the same problem though, they need to overhaul crime and punishment there really isn't a community solution to what needs to be in the game as a core principle.

Unfortunately, one of the most prolific seal clubbers in the game is also a combat logger... I won't name him but he's a bit of a pain because he's been attacking sideys for months on end and then logs as soon as he gets any decent opposition. People like that can't really be dealt with by global bounty boards etc.. I know FDev have dealt with the persona I'm talking about really briefly but he's right back doing it again as soon as his shadow ban expires etc.. There's no real effective deterrent to this kind of cheating "in-game" so personally I favor some kind of public cheaters board which perhaps newbies should be made aware of etc.. so that they can add such people to their block lists. I have no problem with there being a high burden of proof for this kind of thing. There's reams of footage for the guy I'm thinking of..
 
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so personally I favor some kind of public cheaters board which perhaps newbies should be made aware of etc.. so that they can add such people to their block lists.

(a) FD should take a more aggressive stance you mean. Said individual is harrassing newbies and logging out at the first sign of danger. If you meant by means of Alt-F4 then yes - shadowban longer and longer until such time that it's permanent. This doesn't require a public "cheaters" board
(b) Block doesn't do what you think it does. All it does is stop communication from said commander and if the matchmaking system is going to merge people together then someone on your block list is lower down the order. If the particular region of space has just you 2 there you WILL be grouped in an instance. Block isn't the same as other games' /ignore list. (In Diablo 3 if I /ignore someone not only are their communications dropped but I will NEVER be instanced with them if I look for a public game)
 
A community driven "Wanted List" would slightly give Criminals in the ED Universe what the Game can´t offer till today - a Punishment System. Even the Wild West had "Wanted Lists". I don´t say that killing players is false but I don´t understand why it´s not possible to release a list in the year 3302 with criminal activitys or players or dangerous areas. Every Player who kills innocent Pilots should be ready for a Bounty Hunter who is searching for them. It´s like in Star Wars when Han Solo don´t bring the cargo back to the costumer :D

At least a Thread with "Player Emergency Signals" should be nice with informations about the Location and the Problem (Names are not needed ^^).

I'm not against a list of 'Most Wanted' players - but I'd object the 'community driven' part. By the time the 'Wild West' had most wanted lists, these lists were maintained and distributed (and paid out for) by a central government. Before that, it was local witch hunts.

Community driven comes down to the point 'who can you trust'.

The 'player emergency signals' sounds like a good idea (similar to the Fuel Rats), until you realize that this is also wide open to abuse. Both from people denouncing other players as well as PvP addicts calling in the emergency responders for a bit of a shootout. If you include NPCs in this, then this is not too unlike the 'report crimes against me' button, with a hopefully improved response, which might come in 2.x with the promised improved NPC AI.
 
shadowban longer and longer until such time that it's permanent. This doesn't require a public "cheaters" board

You're right it doesn't, however you're talking in what ifs. Wishing that FDev would fix a particular issue can be a long and ultimately unfulfilling experience and I get the feeling that they don't really wish to tackle the problem of cheating head on. That's why I think some kind of pragmatic community solution may end up being required.. The noobie systems are difficult enough to protect from people that operate within the rules, without having to deal with those who cheat to kill newbies.

Interesting what you say about blocking though.. I wasn't aware it only affected the instancing bias..
 
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It may be against FD policy but it's not stopped those groups from having list after list after list of people to kill on sight and bounty lists - the negative atmosphere is already here because of them, the question is how to deal with it in an "emergent, exciting and sociable manner".

AA are that, them not being able to take off until they're out of credits is that - they're happy to do it to newbies. It is an uncomfortable balance but unless FDev set up Crime+Punishment so these people can't get away with it they will have to be dealt with by someone

Wanted status etc should survive death and respawn only possible in places you're not wanted for starters, that's insanely illogical otherwise. Being wanted enough should severely limit where you can dock to anarchic/friendly systems and dying in enemy systems lead to severe financial consequences and 'time out' - these things might sound harsh but doesn't it make sense?!? Isn't that what would happen to wanted cmdr's in such a galaxy?
 
Add me to the imperial list. I attack all imperial stuff ranked competent or above or doing hostile stuff to the feds :p

In my opinion you have a reason to attack Imperial Ships because you are a Fed :) thats how the Game works and this is fine but I am speaking about the "killing without reason" pilots who only fight against weaker ships.

The 'player emergency signals' sounds like a good idea (similar to the Fuel Rats), until you realize that this is also wide open to abuse. Both from people denouncing other players as well as PvP addicts calling in the emergency responders for a bit of a shootout. If you include NPCs in this, then this is not too unlike the 'report crimes against me' button, with a hopefully improved response, which might come in 2.x with the promised improved NPC AI.


Hm, maybe we should wait for the Release of 2.1 but a "Player Emergency Signal" - Thread would be a fine start. The abuse of it would also be sure :D the safest way to call for support is to make friends ingame and ask for help but maybe we could figure out how we can help players who suffers from loop killing via the forum or a app or whatever :)





....,,,,....,,,,

If someone needs support simply add me ingame "Shockbot" I will do my best to help and I also calculate ambushes so I don´t have to bother me when some people think they have to trick me ^^ I would shed a tear for my trust in humanity
 
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