Are you related to the infamous in-game ethelbert? He and his FAS has given my crew lots of enjoyable content in the CGs
In what way is griefing a good thing to have in a game?
- Status
Are you related to the infamous in-game ethelbert? He and his FAS has given my crew lots of enjoyable content in the CGs
Goose4291
Banned
I think that's a massive part of the problem, plus peoples opinions tend to be quite fluid, for example being comfortable with an action right up until someone does something similar to them.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Lol, it's not a ploy.
Definitions are at the heart of the issue, and you can't have a rational discussion without first agreeing on definitions.
It's not semantics; it's semiotics.
To paraphrase Saussure:
Truth is sameness between signifier and signified.
That's how to avoid obfuscation.
http://changingminds.org/explanations/critical_theory/concepts/signifier_signified.htm
See, this is the basic inconsistency of "griefer defenders".
- Sometimes, to draw real-life conclusions from the behaviour of griefers (like: "you are clearly a sociopath") is considered forbidden because obviously ridiculous -- what can you possibly know about my real-life personality from my in-game behaviour!? lol armchair psychology hurrr durrr
- Other times, it is considered perfectly legitimate to draw the same kind of conclusions about "snowflakes" (and BTW, the use this politically-charged term is not a coincidence): if you refuse to learn from your in-game demise you obviously lack a "growth mindset" and refuse to learn from your own mistakes. If you do happily accepts griefers, to quote from someone just a few posts above, "...you're winning at life and likely to overcome adversity".
You can't have both: EITHER some kind of link between in-game actions and real-life personality is plausible, OR it isn't. I cannot be used just when it's expedient for you to mock "snowflakes", but ridiculed when someone tries to suggest that maybe griefer behaviour implies some real-life personality traits.
Pick one.
You can't be a victim if you're opting in, and all the modes are opt-in. You pick them, you make the conscious decision to play in one vs another.
Perhaps they should be asking for Fdev to add more descriptors to the mode selection screen so that players aren't confused.
This is a request to change what the modes allow or mean because rather than pick the correct mode, they want to change an existing one to fit their own wants.
The request is not new, nor unique to this particular topic. However, hiding behind this false boogie man of mean players making you play differently is nonsense. It does nothing to help your position. If you want to re-build and adjust what the modes do, that's a discussion we can have across the board. It has an equally 0 chance of resulting in any change in the game, but it's at least going to be a better discussion than debating the definition of griefing for another 60 pages.
Perhaps they should be asking for Fdev to add more descriptors to the mode selection screen so that players aren't confused.
This is a request to change what the modes allow or mean because rather than pick the correct mode, they want to change an existing one to fit their own wants.
The request is not new, nor unique to this particular topic. However, hiding behind this false boogie man of mean players making you play differently is nonsense. It does nothing to help your position. If you want to re-build and adjust what the modes do, that's a discussion we can have across the board. It has an equally 0 chance of resulting in any change in the game, but it's at least going to be a better discussion than debating the definition of griefing for another 60 pages.
People are
Simply put it makes people happy to imagine how others are and therefore they do everything in their power to screw with others and achieve this, imagined or otherwise.
Simply put it makes people happy to imagine how others are and therefore they do everything in their power to screw with others and achieve this, imagined or otherwise.
To the OP’a point, in my humble opinion ‘griefing’ In Elite D is pretty rare. This opinion is based on the lack of bottlenecks, the mode system, instancing, block and the sheer size of the play area. Ganking on the other hand is far more common and some of the excuses for doing so are, quite frankly, pathetic.
The other point I want to make is going to sound fairly cryptic but I hope some of you get my drift at least. It is in regards to some forum members grandiose claims, some of these guys and gals need to realise that knowing time zones and how to ‘search google for image’ is a thing.
Again, apologies for being slightly cryptic but I needed to air that second bit because liars do my nut in.
The other point I want to make is going to sound fairly cryptic but I hope some of you get my drift at least. It is in regards to some forum members grandiose claims, some of these guys and gals need to realise that knowing time zones and how to ‘search google for image’ is a thing.
Again, apologies for being slightly cryptic but I needed to air that second bit because liars do my nut in.
There is a fallacy called the 'definition fallacy' where people argue about a concept based on their own personal definitions of the word and not what each other means by the word. So they basically just argue past each other.
Clearly defining what the word means to each person is just an intelligent way to go about a conversation.
I'm not sadly, (s)he sounds like a good egg.
I'm the one flying a T7 or T6 into a CG and by example of my most excellent flying skills, moustache and determination delivering the cargo on time and usually only slightly las burnt, in fact I am SO good they don't usually even get to interdict me.
I'm that pilot in the Matt Damon vehicle "Elysium" who flicks his ship out of the way of the missile.
I'm that pilot who occasionally bites off more than he can chew and is reduced to space dust, but shrugs his shoulders, bangs the prom queen, sinks some single malt and gets back on his horse.
The moral high horse in case you were wondering. #mixedmetaphors
Last edited:
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Wrong, the snowflake behavior is out of game/character.
Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw out of game/character behavior conclusions about it.
Unless you are talking about snowflake digital CMDRs posting on here, from the cockpit of their Asp...
You have been floating that same false equivalence since before I ever posted here; it's irrational and abhorrent.
Its semantics not semiotics...but goddamit you got me off on a tangent now. Well played that (insert non gender specific identity here)
If you play open, you consent. There are two other modes for the non-consenting among us.
Stop spamming the forum with complaints about losing your ship, data, cargo, etc. If it's too valuable to lose, play by yourself.
I'm not sure what "false equivalence" you are talking about. This is my first post.
The point stands. If I choose to fly my unshielded T6 in a CG and I keep dying again and again, there will be people telling me that I am not "learning to overcome adversities". Taking my in-game actions and drawing real-life conclusions.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Its semantics not semiotics...but goddamit you got me off on a tangent now. Well played that (insert non gender specific identity here)
Demanding that people define terms and stick to those definitions is the most basic level of honesty.
That is why research papers have definitions.
That is why legal documents have them; see medical scopes of practice.
That is why business contracts have them; eg "to be referred to as "the company"...
It IS semiotics.
It is to avoid obfuscation and confusion.
You can ONLY obfuscate if you have vague definitions.
I'm not looking for acceptance in what I'm trying to say, but when it comes to the blunt truth I value that I see another person as a person. When I play an online game, people are people to me. I'm no more going to start beating on a person, than I'm going to start beating on a person. The distinction that one is online, and another is in Tesco car park are one and the same to me. I treat people like people.
So, in a game of 'lets play space ships', people / players, are still people. They're still people on the other end of pixels and wire in exactly the same way as someone on the other end of a wire / telephone is still a person.
Perhaps it gives me the disadvantage of preference to not engage. But then, I don't have to disassociate my actions to the negative feelings of guilt for the potential of ruining someone elses game / day. Que my explorer scenario:
"disparity between consequence of victim vs perp is beyond fair. It's always bordered on being a joke. I do not know of any penalty a perpetrator can be dished out that would compensate an explorer losing 9 months of exploration data and 'firsts', as a result of 25 seconds of 'enrichment' by someone looking for an easy kill...."
Whilst I don't subscribe to 'griefer' & synonyms, I still believe players that don't subscribe to PvP play should not be thrown in the lions pit. Group and solo are not sufficient, and are exclusions. I firmly believe we need a PvP 'switch' or a PvE OPEN server still.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
I am talking about your ridiculous "griefer" armchair psych mega thread!
You've been posting here longer than I have.
You do the obfuscation and vague/non-existent defintion thing all over that thread, and here, and elsewhere.
I quoted you doing it in that thread.
It's ridiculous and dishonest.
semiotics
/ˌsiːmɪˈɒtɪks,ˌsɛmɪˈɒtɪks/
noun
noun: semiotics; noun: semeiotics
semantics
/sɪˈmantɪks/
noun
noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics
/ˌsiːmɪˈɒtɪks,ˌsɛmɪˈɒtɪks/
noun
noun: semiotics; noun: semeiotics
- the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.
semantics
/sɪˈmantɪks/
noun
noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics
- the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. The two main areas are logical semantics, concerned with matters such as sense and reference and presupposition and implication, and lexical semantics, concerned with the analysis of word meanings and relations between them.
- the meaning of a word, phrase, or text.
plural noun: semantics
"such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"
Nuts. Now the forum post justification is greifing me.
To me its semantics, to you semiotics, but at the end of the day some people are upset coz some fool is messing with them. Let them have their say without arguing about side issues. Have a seperate discussion on this.
- the meaning of a word, phrase, or text.
- Status