Incompetence in game design

[andyraptor]

They (forum community manager and mods) really need to raise the threshold for number of posts before being able to create a thread.

This is a classic example of noob makes noob mistake >>>> creates crap thread

 

[Iskariot]

Yes please!

So I sit there firing at a player's shield till it's within an inch of going down and only take only a 1000cr fine.

And they cannot fire back because it doesn't incur a bounty and I'm running a hull only build?

Yes that's true. I am not pvp minded and it shows.
These are the moments that I wish ED was an offline singleplayer game .

What then?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Aaghh, the horrors of pvp.
Where have the days gone of pure wonderful offline Elite gaming.....
This is a good example of how pvp poisons very useful gameplay solutions.
I should make a list .

FD could keep stricter rules for pvp interactions.

Are you serious?

"Poison"?

How about PvE "poisons" very useful gameplay solution to PvP?

Do people ever consider the audience before overtly spreading flame any more?

Oh wait...

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

there would be a valid point
if the noob had just a stray shot at a non-wanted target, that was not even worth a fine
but then another NPC killed just THAT one NPC you have hit with less then 3 shots (minimum for a fine) and you suddenly get a kill-bounty on your head because you have participated in killing it

the oppositte effect of getting the bounty payout for just scratching a wanted conda that is killed by authority

YAY

 

[bitstorm]

Yes that's true. I am not pvp minded and it shows.
These are the moments that I wish ED was an offline singleplayer game .

I don't think it's necessarily being PvP minded.

I think it's just realising that players will tend to abuse game mechanics for all their worth.

If there's loophole it's gonna be abused.

The unfortunate reality of things like ED is it's not like real life, it just isn't and never can be. Often for the reason that death is and cannot be a thing, therefore the normal rules that dictate how a person would behave just do not apply. Sure the game can try to emulate how it works in real life but often you find that when it comes down to it the lack of actual death ends up meaning that when "game death" is worked into the equation it all starts to go a bit wonky.

 

[shambles1980]

the only solution to the problem is, be aware of the surroundings, unfortunately this also applies to the npc's
And if any one has ever played 4 player co op games like left4dead with AI controlling 3 of the players. you will know they love to jump in between you and your target. and in those games they only have to contend with relatively simple physics.

Sure you can code an AI to avoid entering x-y-z variables but if x-y-z variables happen to be where it needs to be to complete a function of its coding.. its gonna have a bad time. probably do something like stand on its axis and spin whilst it gets shot repeatedly. or just goes spiraling off in to the nearest asteroid.
im sure that you could use "if this" then "go there" kind of scripting but i doubt it would work very effectively, and would soon add up to a lot of additional lines which in turn would add up to a lot of additional bugs.

im not saying its not possible im sure it is..
All im saying is if AAA game devs who mass produce the same basic game year after year havent managed to find a way to stop the ai jumping in to your bullets, then you may be wating a long while before they manage to get ED ai to behave how we want them too.

 

[Iskariot]

Are you serious?

"Poison"?

How about PvE "poisons" very useful gameplay solution to PvP?

Oh that too I suppose, but as I said I am not PvP minded, so I do not care that much about that at all.
It would love it if PvP and SP could be separate games with their own rules and mechanics.
Would be good for both I think.

Do people ever consider the audience before overtly spreading flame any more?
Oh wait...

Overtly spreading flame?
Oh boy... the end times draw near...

I don't think it's necessarily being PvP minded.
I think it's just realising that players will tend to abuse game mechanics for all their worth.

True.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Oh that too I suppose, but as I said I am not PvP minded, so I do not care that much about that at all.

The problem is, you not caring about PvP is fine, but your commentary on PvP being "poisonous" to "useful game solution" is toxic of a comment in itself in the sense that it attracts people that are not "PvE minded" to retaliate and cause the thread to devolve into useless fighting that already has a thread elsewhere for it.

Overtly spreading flame?
Oh boy... the end times draw near...

I could care less, but I'm trying not to create burden for the moderators, I hope you have the same decency to show some appreciation of the volunteer team, as well.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

wing of 4 flying around at a haz res see some one in their brand new shiny conda. He isnt wanted. and goes off bounty hunting..
player 1 "accidentaly shoots his sheild 1ce" small fine dont have to leave hazres
player 2 "accidentaly shoots his sheild 1ce" small fine dont have to leave hazres
player 3 also "accidentaly shoots his sheild 1ce" small fine dont have to leave hazres
and player 4 finishes off the sheild by accidentaly shoooting it..

all perfectly deliberate.
Brand new anaconda is now in has res no sheilds and angry.. May even shoot back at the wing of 4 and become wanted..
Brand new anaconda is now in bits, and the wing of 4 wait for the next victim..

All because you introduced a fine instead of a bounty..

Just saying..

That earns an award for the silliest post in a silly thread.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

the only solution to the problem is, be aware of the surroundings, unfortunately this also applies to the npc's
And if any one has ever played 4 player co op games like left4dead with AI controlling 3 of the players. you will know they love to jump in between you and your target. and in those games they only have to contend with relatively simple physics.

Or <shudder> Daikatana...

 

[Jmanis]

And a bounty means you can kill someone for profit, but it doesn't mean you have to. System Authority killing you over 400 credits is...well, not gonna point this out further.

Repeating exactly what I said in an identical thread to this, I kill a ship simply because it appears wanted, regardless of if it's 400cr or 400,000cr. Why should NPCs be any different?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Repeating exactly what I said in an identical thread to this, I kill a ship simply because it appears wanted, regardless of if it's 400cr or 400,000cr. Why should NPCs be any different?

Because some cmdrs consider themselves to be special snowflakes and like to be treated as such. You know, expecting the rules of a game be changed because that is just easier than learning the basics of the game. Consequences are for other people, right?

 

[Iskariot]

I could care less, but I'm trying not to create burden for the moderators, I hope you have the same decency to show some appreciation of the volunteer team, as well.

Yes, decency is very important. Burdens are very bad.
You sound like someone who is very thoughtful and decent.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

You guys and maybe girl's pew pew too much.
There are better ways to play...and play nice.

Lost on most Humans I guess as you just can't deny yourselves that irresistible urge to destroy each other...
Oh well, what does a Banana care what you do to each other.
Have fun either way!

I do feel the bounty system needs some love but I can live with it as is.

Y'all know this is a classic bait thread to start y'all whining at each other though, right?

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Whether it's called a fine or bounty is just splitting hairs. You should not be executed for 400cr. That would be like the police shooting you for not paying a traffic ticket. It's poorly thought out and just dumb.

 

[John Shepard]

This alpha has great potential. FD doesn't really realize how much really.

First, the game(when completed) can captivate so many, from so many different tastes. But for that they need to put the same effort on multiple areas. Risk vs Reward should be the core of the game. However trading provides the most mind numbing way to make money, that dwarfs all others, for little risk. However given the original fans of the game, should they alter that there would probably be crucifixions.

Second, this project needs common sense. Data, information, numbers, overlays, lists, logs, history logs of many different types. While it is always the burden of developers to balance realism with suspension of belief, the little things have been omitted which helps either of those who seek the former or the latter. Quests, payouts, quest progression are all "designed as intended"...designed to fail.

Last, but not least, we should recall that this is an alpha. Nobody in the right state of mind would call this a game. This is not even a beta, maybe fanboys will call it a game, but it isn't. Reality is what it is, and the reality of, for example EVE, is that it took along time for that product to become a game that drew so many.

So, this alpha passed for a game may in fact be one of those rare jewels that will be further improved upon, from the little things that are overwhelmingly missing; to the large things as making different professions profitable in comparison, simply connection issues etc. This however shouldn't be confused as many all professions equal, proportionality isn't equality.

This alpha may be one of those rough diamonds that just needs more effort. Or, it may be one of those alphas that sells the brand for quick cash only to join the bin of many failed projects that turned into money grabbing schemes, relying on the original fanbase feelings to milk them for all they are worth. IN the end love is blind, and you can milk that blindman(woman) for a while until they finally decide to open their eyes.


For now, walk into this understanding that it is not a finished game. This is an alpha, at best. If you accept that, the product can become very enjoyable. FD should be advised that competition for this spot is coming, Star Citizen when it comes out will be compared to this game whether people want to or not.

 

[MaraJade]

Whether it's called a fine or bounty is just splitting hairs. You should not be executed for 400cr. That would be like the police shooting you for not paying a traffic ticket. It's poorly thought out and just dumb.

While you may be right, we live in a galaxy that executes you for loitering or landing on the wrong pad by mistake, so shooting you for 400cr doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

 

[KidA39]

While you may be right, we live in a galaxy that executes you for loitering or landing on the wrong pad by mistake, so shooting you for 400cr doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

Lol, this.

Anyways, I've raked a cops shield in a HiRES a couple of times and never gotten a fine. Am I missing something here?

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Lol, this.

Anyways, I've raked a cops shield in a HiRES a couple of times and never gotten a fine. Am I missing something here?

Allied with?
Pretty sure I've done the same but stopped when I realized and not a word was said.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

While you may be right, we live in a galaxy that executes you for loitering or landing on the wrong pad by mistake, so shooting you for 400cr doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.

I understand why you would get executed for blocking a pad or station entrance. If that wasn't the case, you would have a bunch of tryhards griefing other players by blocking station access. The game gives you plenty of time to clear out if it is a piloting error on your part. It makes sense. It's not even a question of fairness, it's just illogical to be killed for 400cr no matter what the circumstances. Illogical game design breaks immersion.

 

[Gold Member]

Because some cmdrs consider themselves to be special snowflakes and like to be treated as such. You know, expecting the rules of a game be changed because that is just easier than learning the basics of the game. Consequences are for other people, right?

+1, and btw I am the only special snowflake out there.