MINING after new update

If FDev wants to balance mining and not just make everybody hunt for the same two or three things, it's really dead simple without making it into a deep discussion.

Just make something ten times more valuable than anything else ten times more difficult to find.

There. Easy.

You're welcome.
 
Tried a single VO and a single Alexandrite hotspots yesterday.

Laser mining? Not an option. Never seen ANY mineral at above 10%.
Surface mining? Not an option. 95% water, in several cases some other worthless minerals.
Subsurface mining? Not an option. 80% water, 15% tritium, in several cases some other worthless minerals.
Core mining? The only viable option, if you don't mind spending 20+ prospector limpets to find a core and wave scanner doing weird things. It's the only way you can actually mine something, though.

Generally I don't mind the nerf, have always considered 100+M/h in mining ridiculous. But effectively killing three of four available mining techniques? Seriously?
 
Found peace, in Shinrarta Dehzra of all places. One of the ice ring GG's has hotspots. And, they actually contain the material they claim. Just no cores.

Went laser mining without a PWS. Very relaxing. All I had to do was get a prospector hit with some amount of the target material. Don't worry about shapes, and chasing PWS returns. Just Keep Shooting. Bring lots of drones.

Also, the Mining Python killed off a Pirate Anaconda, and collected the parts. She got her three large mounts back, after I removed core mining and SSD blasters. Got an extra booster in place of the PWS. Pirate was surprised to find a G5 engineered miner...
 
If FDev wants to balance mining and not just make everybody hunt for the same two or three things, it's really dead simple without making it into a deep discussion.

Just make something ten times more valuable than anything else ten times more difficult to find.

There. Easy.

You're welcome.

I agree with the sentiment but I don't think it's quite that easy.

I mean, if there's 10x fewer Painite hotspots, it doesn't really matter.
You only need to find one and you're sorted.

If, OTOH, you're talking about actually making Painite 10x less common within hotspots, that's just silly.
That's like saying that FDev needs to make combat more difficult and suggesting they do it by having NPC enemies 10x less likely to appear.

I hate to say it but it seems like there's nobody at FDev putting much thought into how stuff works.

If they want to rebalance mining in a way that makes it challenging - without making it crushingly dull - there are more nuanced ways to do it.

Like, for example, why not just ramp-up the likelihood of being attacked when carrying valuable ores?
You can haul a Cutter-load of VOs half way across the galaxy and only get attacked by one FGS, which you can swat like an insect.

Change things up so that the likelihood AND the severity of attacks is proportional to the value of the cargo.
Do that and players will be able to pick their "skill level" by choosing to mine ore that will only draw a level of attention they can deal with.
Alternatively, maybe players could start to work together, by having a bunch of combat ships escorting a Cutter full of VOs?

Course, FDev have kind of shot themselves in the foot, there, with FCs that can allow players to transport stuff in complete safety.
Also, they'd probably need to sort out a PROPER wing-payment system if they want players to work together.
Might want to get on that.

Off the top of my head I could come up with at least a dozen ideas for making mining more challenging without resorting to the current "make stuff harder to find" garbage.
FDev need to hire themselves some people with better imaginations.
 
I mean, if there's 10x fewer Painite hotspots, it doesn't really matter.
You only need to find one and you're sorted.
That is indeed a problem with my general idea and a good point. After all, even if you make it very difficult to find a "motherlode", with the game's "infinite everything" design, that just means that everybody and their brother will be swarming the infinite resources and we're back to square one (Borann, Icebox etc.)

For it to truly work, there would have to be some "depletion" mechanic.
 
I agree with the sentiment but I don't think it's quite that easy.

I mean, if there's 10x fewer Painite hotspots, it doesn't really matter.
You only need to find one and you're sorted.

If, OTOH, you're talking about actually making Painite 10x less common within hotspots, that's just silly.
That's like saying that FDev needs to make combat more difficult and suggesting they do it by having NPC enemies 10x less likely to appear.

I hate to say it but it seems like there's nobody at FDev putting much thought into how stuff works.

If they want to rebalance mining in a way that makes it challenging - without making it crushingly dull - there are more nuanced ways to do it.

Like, for example, why not just ramp-up the likelihood of being attacked when carrying valuable ores?
You can haul a Cutter-load of VOs half way across the galaxy and only get attacked by one FGS, which you can swat like an insect.

Change things up so that the likelihood AND the severity of attacks is proportional to the value of the cargo.
Do that and players will be able to pick their "skill level" by choosing to mine ore that will only draw a level of attention they can deal with.
Alternatively, maybe players could start to work together, by having a bunch of combat ships escorting a Cutter full of VOs?

Course, FDev have kind of shot themselves in the foot, there, with FCs that can allow players to transport stuff in complete safety.
Also, they'd probably need to sort out a PROPER wing-payment system if they want players to work together.
Might want to get on that.

Off the top of my head I could come up with at least a dozen ideas for making mining more challenging without resorting to the current "make stuff harder to find" garbage.
FDev need to hire themselves some people with better imaginations.
I am not in the least interested in changing anything in mining I just want it to work as intended which it is in laser mining but isn't in core mining with the pulse wave scanner being broken.

Your answer to make ganking a game mechanic is just ludicrous?. What about the poor newish and beginner players who are trying to make a start in the in the game in a ship that doesn't have enough or even capable slots for weapons to defend themselves and who just want to get to market, sell their cargo and get enough money to buy a bigger ship to get ahead.

As to players having to bunch up to protect themselves, how is this even feasible in a multi time zone world. Maybe you and your mates play at the same time but the vast majority of players are lone players. I myself play in open all the time but other than npc's I have seen less than a dozen real players in my game in the last year at least.

Why shouldn't players expect to mine in safety. for example I have always thought it idiotic that that a player can be far out in the galaxy find an until then unknown system full of pristine rings and within seconds of entering those rings several npc pirates arrive to lambast him over only having limpets aboard. When miners enter a system to trade you would think that any system wanting their trade would make sure that their system security would properly protect them but the only time you see system security is when you are attacked and if you aren't adept at combat, system security certainly won't save you.

Me I am more than capable of defending myself but when I am mining I just want to be left alone with game mechanics that work as intended. Mining doesn't need any great shake up it just needs a pulse wave scanner which works?.
 
I am not in the least interested in changing anything in mining I just want it to work as intended which it is in laser mining but isn't in core mining with the pulse wave scanner being broken.

Your answer to make ganking a game mechanic is just ludicrous?. What about the poor newish and beginner players who are trying to make a start in the in the game in a ship that doesn't have enough or even capable slots for weapons to defend themselves and who just want to get to market, sell their cargo and get enough money to buy a bigger ship to get ahead.

As to players having to bunch up to protect themselves, how is this even feasible in a multi time zone world. Maybe you and your mates play at the same time but the vast majority of players are lone players. I myself play in open all the time but other than npc's I have seen less than a dozen real players in my game in the last year at least.

Why shouldn't players expect to mine in safety. for example I have always thought it idiotic that that a player can be far out in the galaxy find an until then unknown system full of pristine rings and within seconds of entering those rings several npc pirates arrive to lambast him over only having limpets aboard. When miners enter a system to trade you would think that any system wanting their trade would make sure that their system security would properly protect them but the only time you see system security is when you are attacked and if you aren't adept at combat, system security certainly won't save you.

Me I am more than capable of defending myself but when I am mining I just want to be left alone with game mechanics that work as intended. Mining doesn't need any great shake up it just needs a pulse wave scanner which works?.

this

it’s not a discussion here about mining changes. It’s a discussion why the PWS has changed and if this was intentional or a bug
 
Your answer to make ganking a game mechanic is just ludicrous?. What about the poor newish and beginner players who are trying to make a start in the in the game in a ship that doesn't have enough or even capable slots for weapons to defend themselves and who just want to get to market, sell their cargo and get enough money to buy a bigger ship to get ahead.

As to players having to bunch up to protect themselves, how is this even feasible in a multi time zone world. Maybe you and your mates play at the same time but the vast majority of players are lone players. I myself play in open all the time but other than npc's I have seen less than a dozen real players in my game in the last year at least.

Why shouldn't players expect to mine in safety. for example I have always thought it idiotic that that a player can be far out in the galaxy find an until then unknown system full of pristine rings and within seconds of entering those rings several npc pirates arrive to lambast him over only having limpets aboard. When miners enter a system to trade you would think that any system wanting their trade would make sure that their system security would properly protect them but the only time you see system security is when you are attacked and if you aren't adept at combat, system security certainly won't save you.

Me I am more than capable of defending myself but when I am mining I just want to be left alone with game mechanics that work as intended. Mining doesn't need any great shake up it just needs a pulse wave scanner which works?.

I see to recall, back when passenger missions were the big money-maker, that there were people wailing about how there was nothing wrong with it and it didn't need fixing.
There are always going to be people who only prioritise their personal desire to make telephone-numbers of credits and ignore the obvious imbalances that causes to the rest of the game.

I mean, you're asking why a newbie shouldn't be able to accomplish the same things as a veteran player, like that's some kind of problem.
To suggest that a newbie, lacking the skills and the equipment of a veteran, should be able to accomplish the same things as a veteran is ludicrous IMO.
The whole point of progression, within a game, is that as you get better at playing it you can achieve more and be rewarded accordingly.

What I'm suggesting would mean that a newbie does have the opportunity to maximise their earnings while, at the same time, making the game proportionally challenging, depending on the risk a player is willing to take.
That seems far better than simply making valuable ores more and more difficult to find and, thus, making mining less and less of a productive activity.
And, if a newbie can manage to find other players to fly with, they have additional opportunities to earn extra credits as well.

I do agree that other aspects of gameplay shoud be refined as well.
I've always said that the likelihood of being attacked while carrying any cargo should be proportional to the amount of stations a player visits and other ships a player encounters while carrying cargo, to simulate the idea that word has got around that you're hauling a valuable cargo.
It's fairly plausible, for example, that if a mining ship was seen leaving a station in Borann (as was) then pirates might choose to track it and, if it dropped into a ring and then re-emerged a couple of hours later, they might decide to engage it.
Conversely, if you leave a station in a different system, fly to Borann, avoid getting close to other ships (even in SC), complete your mining and then fly to market through empty systems there should be a greatly reduced chance of you encountering attackers along the way.
The current "always get attacked on arrival in a ring" and "always get attacked on the way to market" mechanics are clumsy, simplistic and unrealistic.

The main point, however, is simply that it's possible reduce the potential income from mining by making the process more challenging and NOT simply by making valuable ores harder to find, which simply means that mining will become more frustrating and people will stop doing it.
 
I see to recall, back when passenger missions were the big money-maker, that there were people wailing about how there was nothing wrong with it and it didn't need fixing.
There are always going to be people who only prioritise their personal desire to make telephone-numbers of credits and ignore the obvious imbalances that causes to the rest of the game.

I mean, you're asking why a newbie shouldn't be able to accomplish the same things as a veteran player, like that's some kind of problem.
To suggest that a newbie, lacking the skills and the equipment of a veteran, should be able to accomplish the same things as a veteran is ludicrous IMO.
The whole point of progression, within a game, is that as you get better at playing it you can achieve more and be rewarded accordingly.

What I'm suggesting would mean that a newbie does have the opportunity to maximise their earnings while, at the same time, making the game proportionally challenging, depending on the risk a player is willing to take.
That seems far better than simply making valuable ores more and more difficult to find and, thus, making mining less and less of a productive activity.
And, if a newbie can manage to find other players to fly with, they have additional opportunities to earn extra credits as well.

I do agree that other aspects of gameplay shoud be refined as well.
I've always said that the likelihood of being attacked while carrying any cargo should be proportional to the amount of stations a player visits and other ships a player encounters while carrying cargo, to simulate the idea that word has got around that you're hauling a valuable cargo.
It's fairly plausible, for example, that if a mining ship was seen leaving a station in Borann (as was) then pirates might choose to track it and, if it dropped into a ring and then re-emerged a couple of hours later, they might decide to engage it.
Conversely, if you leave a station in a different system, fly to Borann, avoid getting close to other ships (even in SC), complete your mining and then fly to market through empty systems there should be a greatly reduced chance of you encountering attackers along the way.
The current "always get attacked on arrival in a ring" and "always get attacked on the way to market" mechanics are clumsy, simplistic and unrealistic.

The main point, however, is simply that it's possible reduce the potential income from mining by making the process more challenging and NOT simply by making valuable ores harder to find, which simply means that mining will become more frustrating and people will stop doing it.
Start another thread if you like about your issues as cmdr OnTheEdge above says this one is about the pulse wave scanner problems since the latest patch.
 
Start another thread if you like about your issues as cmdr OnTheEdge above says this one is about the pulse wave scanner problems since the latest patch.

Nah, I'm happy to respond to issues raised in this thread, until such time as the mod's deem them off-topic.
 
I agree with the sentiment but I don't think it's quite that easy.

I mean, if there's 10x fewer Painite hotspots, it doesn't really matter.
You only need to find one and you're sorted.

If, OTOH, you're talking about actually making Painite 10x less common within hotspots, that's just silly.
That's like saying that FDev needs to make combat more difficult and suggesting they do it by having NPC enemies 10x less likely to appear.

I hate to say it but it seems like there's nobody at FDev putting much thought into how stuff works.

If they want to rebalance mining in a way that makes it challenging - without making it crushingly dull - there are more nuanced ways to do it.

Like, for example, why not just ramp-up the likelihood of being attacked when carrying valuable ores?
You can haul a Cutter-load of VOs half way across the galaxy and only get attacked by one FGS, which you can swat like an insect.

Change things up so that the likelihood AND the severity of attacks is proportional to the value of the cargo.
Do that and players will be able to pick their "skill level" by choosing to mine ore that will only draw a level of attention they can deal with.
Alternatively, maybe players could start to work together, by having a bunch of combat ships escorting a Cutter full of VOs?

Course, FDev have kind of shot themselves in the foot, there, with FCs that can allow players to transport stuff in complete safety.
Also, they'd probably need to sort out a PROPER wing-payment system if they want players to work together.
Might want to get on that.

Off the top of my head I could come up with at least a dozen ideas for making mining more challenging without resorting to the current "make stuff harder to find" garbage.
FDev need to hire themselves some people with better imaginations.
Frontier is a Lousy DM. :(
 
okay i just did a test in my usual void opal spot. it's just a gamble without any sense or understanding. it has nothing to do with skills or any meaningful game content. so core mining is useless for the moment. we need a hot fix for that.
 
this

it’s not a discussion here about mining changes. It’s a discussion why the PWS has changed and if this was intentional or a bug
I think I'd go with bug at this point.

Not sure what my most obvious example would be but last night I had a case where I flew past a bunch of rocks while pinging. Flipped the ship over and found them all happily glowing just behind me. So, hmm, tempted to go with sort of network lag? Then again I'm not noticing things popping in if I stay in one spot and ping, only if I'm moving. So some sort of error in determining the glow based on position? Then again once things have started glowing they don't tend to pop out, so not that? They do sometimes stop, but not often. Be curious what is going on under the hood.

I've seen things like this prior to the patch but much more prevalent now so perhaps the changes are just exacerbating a pre-existing problem rather than introducing something new?

Anyway..
No VOs in my distant VO spot but that's a different issue.
 
Myself and squadron mates have seen a approx 50% less to pulse wave response from asteroids, what was a productive double void opal field gave my only 2 non void opal cores boosting around in a barren wasteland. Going run round in my PV looking for materials, as mining is a time waster at present.
go painite mine... 500mil/hr

edit: in a wing
 
finally read through this... one of our community members was telling me he tested and it felt like it was a Doppler type effect. Like if you were flying backwards the pulse wave would return results. (The wave red-shifts) While flying forward it has blue shift and we see nothing.

And interesting observation and one that’s consistent with possible delay is server returning pulse wave info, right? Because you will have been in range of any particular rock for quite a while as you pass it, and then it glows.

I’m feeling like bug or unintentional change.
Otherwise I’d be personally offended especially since we were told mining was done changing now.
And that the shift would further harm core and sub surface.... after the CMs told us directlet in our interview on Loose Screws that the idea was They wanted to balance mining so that the more skilled gameplay paths would have better yield.
I was thrilled as laser mining is massively unrealistic to me and I really want to focus on sub surface and core.
...but I was disappointed when all the patches resolved and I found sub surface was back down below lasers... pretty well a total failure of their goal, but at least I could still hunt VO cores and pick up random other things as I go. So now if the pulse wave is messing up or lagging, I say unintentional because it’s against the spirit of their stated goal.
 
I was thrilled as laser mining is massively unrealistic to me and I really want to focus on sub surface and core.
...but I was disappointed when all the patches resolved and I found sub surface was back down below lasers... pretty well a total failure of their goal, but at least I could still hunt VO cores and pick up random other things as I go. So now if the pulse wave is messing up or lagging, I say unintentional because it’s against the spirit of their stated goal.
There was a point during all this when all of the mining methods were useful and produced good yields, which made mining a lot more fun.

I started bringing all the tools with me, so I could handle cores, SSDs and laser mining, depending on what I found. It was great.

But then the 'balancing' happened, and the bug fixes (and new bug additions), and now we're back to laser mining being the only thing working (mostly) right.

It's a bit depressing.
 
FWIW, the patch hasn't changed the location or number of actual cores, it only has screwed up the Pulse Wave Analyzer, making it very hard to find any cores. I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but time will tell. It does seem like a 'network lag' issue.

Of course, it's not clear why they would need to update from a server as to which cores have been cracked in a local instance. Presumably this is something easily communicated amongst clients (and updating a local cache of cracked cores shouldn't be too hard), but perhaps they went for the easy fix.
 
FWIW, the patch hasn't changed the location or number of actual cores, it only has screwed up the Pulse Wave Analyzer, making it very hard to find any cores. I'm pretty sure it's a bug, but time will tell. It does seem like a 'network lag' issue.

Of course, it's not clear why they would need to update from a server as to which cores have been cracked in a local instance. Presumably this is something easily communicated amongst clients (and updating a local cache of cracked cores shouldn't be too hard), but perhaps they went for the easy fix.
They went for the lazy fix.
 
I see to recall, back when passenger missions were the big money-maker, that there were people wailing about how there was nothing wrong with it and it didn't need fixing.
There are always going to be people who only prioritise their personal desire to make telephone-numbers of credits and ignore the obvious imbalances that causes to the rest of the game.
You forgot carriers. It's already there. All my mining ships does not have fuel scoop, booster etc. They fly 5ls from spot to carrier and back only.
So pirates' topic is dead.
 
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