I'm not convinced by gravity being the sole explanation, because you can overshoot a tiny tourist beacon just the same as a planet. I'm thinking the control system can't manage to slow you if you slow down too late and it speeds up just like it would if you deselected the target.This is correct. Your speed in supercruise is affected by gravity/mass of nearby objects, and if you're already too late at cutting the speed it'll just keep moving.
I'll leave out the theory of how supercruise works to achieve such great speeds for now (it's complex and I don't really understand it myself). Just be aware that you are NOT in normal space, and the usual rules of speed/distance/inertia don't apply, or apply differently.
I always hit my 75% key at 10 seconds out, because I like have a bit more time for my reactions to kick inIt works just fine for me that way.
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Newcomer / Intro My Return to ED ......
- Thread starter Wombat1940
- Start date
Well, it's not gravity, it's mass, kinda, which is why I put gravity/mass. And my understanding of the theory is limited.
The ED supercruise is modeled somewhat after the actual Alcubierre drive theory, and attempts to simulate what that might be like (as I understand it). We are not moving, per se, we are shifting space around us.
From the wiki:
"The Alcubierre drive, Alcubierre warp drive, or Alcubierre metric (referring to metric tensor) is a speculative warp drive idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre during his PhD study at the University of Wales, Cardiff, by which a spacecraft could achieve apparent faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (that is, negative mass) could be created.
Rather than exceeding the speed of light within a local reference frame, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind it, resulting in effective faster-than-light travel. Objects cannot accelerate to the speed of light within normal spacetime; instead, the Alcubierre drive shifts space around an object so that the object would arrive at its destination more quickly than light would in normal space without breaking any physical laws.
"
I was aware of the theories behind Alcubierre drives before I knew ED had adopted it. I kind of think of it as, a certain amount of time is needed to weaken or strengthen the warp field and shift space around you at different rates as you approach a target, and the control system can't do it without enough notice. It is telling that the thrusters don't appear to be running at all in supercruise or when jumping.
Sometimes it's best to accept a Gene Rodenbarry's type answer when he was asked how transporters work in Star Trek 'beam me up Scotty'.....
"Very nicely thank you"
Sounds like you understand the theory much better than I do
And I agree with your last quote. It works just fine, and I'm used it now so...
I would actually argue that taking the carrier is a liability, not a help.
For one thing it uses a lot of expensive fuel. A trip to Sag A* and back would cost in the neighborhood of 400 million credits worth of fuel.
When I went, mining was ultra-profitable so I paid for the trip by mining while out in the black, and when I returned I sold all the ore I had collected. I will probably not take the carrier that far again, at least not in the near future. I did stock up on some Tritium (that's what the fuel is called) in the last two weeks. That's why I was making all that money with massacre missions. I spent about 200 million for about 4000 tons. That's enough for me to take a nice long exploration trip into uncharted territory, which is what I want to do soon.
For another thing, it severely limits how fast you can travel, and since it can't jump on its own you have to be there to jump it each time. Refueling it is weird, too, you have to transfer the fuel from the carrier to your ship, then back into the carrier's fuel depot. Just an annoyance, but part of the deal.
It's just a lot more hassle to deal with bringing the carrier.
Anyway, let's look at how a trip out there in the Hauler would actually look, because plenty of people have made the trip in 30LY ships. That used to be a decently long jump range. My T6 had only 32LY jump range when I went. It was about 750 jumps as I recall.
The thing is, although that sounds like a lot of jumps, it really isn't that much. Once you get into the rhythm of it, jump, honk, scoop, jump, honk, scoop, it takes a minute or less per jump. That's 60 jumps per hour. That's less than 14 hours for 800 jumps. Do a couple hours a day and you're there in a week. No problemo.
Of course, I never did 60 jumps per hour. I would get distracted by something I saw in a system, and go look at it. It took me much longer than a week to arrive. But I made the trip and had a great time in my little T6.
I love fleet carriers...
...owned by other commanders that leave them lying around in convenient places for me to repair/restock or even change ship outfitting ... or give me a convenient rebuy location
I don't feel tempted to buy one myself. Laser mining just gives me a headache and I only do core mining in occasional small doses. No idea how I could buy and then fund running costs.
WOW ! This is not like you: such a big post !I would actually argue that taking the carrier is a liability, not a help.
For one thing it uses a lot of expensive fuel. A trip to Sag A* and back would cost in the neighborhood of 400 million credits worth of fuel.
When I went, mining was ultra-profitable so I paid for the trip by mining while out in the black, and when I returned I sold all the ore I had collected. I will probably not take the carrier that far again, at least not in the near future. I did stock up on some Tritium (that's what the fuel is called) in the last two weeks. That's why I was making all that money with massacre missions. I spent about 200 million for about 4000 tons. That's enough for me to take a nice long exploration trip into uncharted territory, which is what I want to do soon.
For another thing, it severely limits how fast you can travel, and since it can't jump on its own you have to be there to jump it each time. Refueling it is weird, too, you have to transfer the fuel from the carrier to your ship, then back into the carrier's fuel depot. Just an annoyance, but part of the deal.
It's just a lot more hassle to deal with bringing the carrier.
Anyway, let's look at how a trip out there in the Hauler would actually look, because plenty of people have made the trip in 30LY ships. That used to be a decently long jump range. My T6 had only 32LY jump range when I went. It was about 750 jumps as I recall.
The thing is, although that sounds like a lot of jumps, it really isn't that much. Once you get into the rhythm of it, jump, honk, scoop, jump, honk, scoop, it takes a minute or less per jump. That's 60 jumps per hour. That's less than 14 hours for 800 jumps. Do a couple hours a day and you're there in a week. No problemo.
Of course, I never did 60 jumps per hour. I would get distracted by something I saw in a system, and go look at it. It took me much longer than a week to arrive. But I made the trip and had a great time in my little T6.
I haven't got time to read it at the moment, have to go shopping.
Something to look forward to.
Answer soon .....
Answer soon .....I love fleet carriers...
...owned by other commanders that leave them lying around in convenient places for me to repair/restock or even change ship outfitting ... or give me a convenient rebuy location
I don't feel tempted to buy one myself. Laser mining just gives me a headache and I only do core mining in occasional small doses. No idea how I could buy and then fund running costs.
Hey Wombie, check this out:
github.com
publications/ED_System_identifiers_notes_-_Rev1.pdf at master · Elite-IGAU/publications
Official publications and research data from The Intergalactic Astronomical Union - Elite-IGAU/publications
github.com
Soon ......Hey Wombie, check this out:
publications/ED_System_identifiers_notes_-_Rev1.pdf at master · Elite-IGAU/publications
Official publications and research data from The Intergalactic Astronomical Union - Elite-IGAU/publications
If ED is following reality as much as possible, I can't believe that would happen. I'm not going "downhill" like in a car.
Maybe there's an extra inertia effect coursed by the mass of the body you're approaching and it's "sucking" you in, like earth's gravity?.
I've actually have mine set to 50%, hopefully, to give me more time .....
I'm using 10 seconds.
Ha! Just what I suggested in my post to Quain #1515. Well done Wombat !
It's no good trying to explain something you don't understand. I tried it once, when I was teaching a group of adults.
They, naturally, asked me questions! ....... Questions that I couldn't answer, obviously! I didn't understand !
Disaster. Never again. If I wasn't prepared we did revision, with me encouraging lots of questions that I COULD answer.
Hmmm ..... something for me/you to explore later.
Yes. Very, very good point. But that is what makes it so interesting,
and my "car scenario" might be rubbish when applied to spaceships.
As I said to Qain, I hit my 50% key also at 10 sec. Maybe 50% is a wrong setting. As you say, quote: " .... you are NOT in normal space, and the usual rules of speed/distance/inertia don't apply, or apply differently."I always hit my 75% key at 10 seconds out, because I like have a bit more time for my reactions to kick in
I can accept the premise that your speed can remain constant, when you reduce your throttle to 75%, PROVIDED there are no forces the ship is still overcoming.
And that's possible in the vacuum of space. However, if we can run at a constant speed at 75% full throttle why were we running at 100% previously and wasting fuel ?
NOTE & MOST IMPORTANT: This is NOT real space.
It's ED space, and they can bend the rules.
We need to be careful that "we", maybe more "I", are not trying to apply the real laws of physics to a game.
In that regard, I think Codger's gravity suggestion is singularly a good one.
However, I m saying this without any understanding of how ED's Supercruise works, which is: me (and Codger) making suggestions without understanding all the influencing consequences in the game. Her endeth lesson .......
Oh! Good one mate! You've really taken to task some of the concerns expressed in my post #1517.
No wonder you say in your post #1501, quote: " ..... how supercruise works to achieve such great speeds for now (it's complex and I don't really understand it myself) "
I'll need more time to study this and all that comes with it, but sorry, now is not the time.
I just need to know how to drop out of Supercruise successfully by following a strict set of steps.
I can do that without necessarily understanding why each step is necessary.
Maybe later it will be different .......
Oh Bloody-hell !Hey Wombie, check this out:
publications/ED_System_identifiers_notes_-_Rev1.pdf at master · Elite-IGAU/publications
Official publications and research data from The Intergalactic Astronomical Union - Elite-IGAU/publications
I knew it ! Somebody else would have this covered. But ................... just great ! However, I've only got time just to glance at it, when I have to tackle all these other things.
Sleep, food, the dog, Bali, COVID, sex, ? What are they ?
However ........................ I LOVE IT !!!
Thanks mate.
Well, I've just tried my method of safely dropping out of Supercruise to the point I deleted any reference to MY method I could. It's CRAP !
No, no don't offer me help, but thank you anyway.
I've got to go to the Manual read up everything to do with this "thing" :
So no advice because I won't read it .......
I need to read up about it first of all !
No, no don't offer me help, but thank you anyway.
I've got to go to the Manual read up everything to do with this "thing" :
So no advice because I won't read it .......
I need to read up about it first of all !
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I feel gravity must certainly be a factor, since if I am over shooting I will turn the back of the ship toward the planet and let gravity slow me down so I don't over shoot by as much.
Where it get's confusing is when you are heading for a tourist beacon or similar that does not have the mass to exert a significant gravitational force, yet the speeding up when you don't reduce throttle in time phenomena still occurs. This is where my 'control system can't handle it' theory comes from.
That procedure works for me - when not using supercruise assist which handles everything and runs the ship at a much slower speed for the whole distance.Right. Let's put together the steps to successfully drop out of Supercruise when journeying to a target.
1. Set <BACKSPACE> key (in my case) to select 75% of full throttle.
2. Hit <BACKSPACE> key between 10 to 7 seconds "out" from the target.
And that's it.
Let's go and try it ...................................
Yes, agree in regard to a TOURIST BEACON and likewise. However, is this an oversight, deliberate, or otherwise?
Maybe (dangerous word) they just
Sorry, what is this?