No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[StuartGT]

I wanted to engage with the community. I was not allowed to, because I pointed out the heavy troll population, and explained a joke.

I wanted to engage with the Premium Beta. I was not allowed to, because the game repeatedly relocated the space station, never actually allowing me to dock.

I wanted to engage with the Beta. I was not allowed to, because the game refused to give me docking permission, despite hundreds of requests.

I originally wanted to play the released game online when I could; that want was rapidly washed away by the lax attitude towards idiocy on forums and complete non-working status of the servers, both problems that rapidly increase in proportion to the number of people.

I was happy to play the released game offline, knowing that I would at least be able to play without fear of idiots or server problems. I am now not allowed to, because of highly suspect reasons regarding "vision".


In other words, I have been short-changed on every single aspect of this. I would've happily overlooked the rest if I had a game at the end of it, but I don't. For me, Elite: Dangerous does not work online, and it does not work offline, therefore it does not work at all.

I would be incredibly disappointed with anything less than a full refund, as so far being repeatedly slapped around the face with a large trout would've been a preferable experience, and considerably cheaper too. I have been unable to "play" anything any reasonable person would consider a "game", and have been treated with nothing but disdain, even when trying to improve the game.

Did you back the Kickstarter or buy Premium Beta from Frontier's webstore?
(Off topic) As to a few of your points:

• Docking requests I had loads issues during Beta 1 & 2 in Open, until I traveled away from the Eranin/I Bootis area. Solo I had no troubles. No docking request problems in Beta 3 Open. Problem fixed during Beta it would appear!
• All internet forums have some troublesome individuals. There are however hundreds if not thousands of helpful ED players on the forums/reddit/youtube/twitch ready to help you out. Are you really saying your whole experience has been tarnished by a few bad eggs?

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

<snip>

You're asking some of the posters here to not bait and inflame the situation by attacking people because they're fine with an online game and they can't understand why we're not. Thankfully one or two of them seem to have gone quiet, or got bored, so perhaps the conversation might move back to a more civil level such as "What can we -do- about this mess" and indeed, now with David finally making a statement that's a bit more goodwill intended concerning refunds, we can get some closure.

 

[Vlodec]

Yea, and they are basically pages of the same post over and over again.

Which you continue to read?

 

[StuartGT]

Seems like the lack of (decent)internet keeps being brought up as the sole reason for thinking people want an offline mode.
Do all you online-only supporters play all your games that offer both an offline and online component exclusively online?

Unsurprisingly, yes. My gaming PC has a permanent connection to the internet, so why should I play them 'offline' as you put it? Those that were bought through an online store, downloaded via an online store, are certainly played online. When my internet dies occasionally? Damn, I go to the pub or see the family (in order of preference )

If I commuted a lot, felt the need to travel with a gaming laptop and felt I had to only play ED, I'd use my 3G mobile & tether the connection. No real biggie, but hey that's just me.

 

[mbpoblet]

Its never too late mbpoblet ... sometimes it takes a little while to realise things.

What is important is that FD are entering into a dialogue with people.

I meant that for a lot of backers the damage - mostly to our trust in Frontier Developments, and in David Braben in particular - has already been done, and that it won't get fixed with refunds (particularly given that the people taking refunds will be leaving the community, that will be diminished by that loss).

Besides that... it remains to be seen whether the apparent split in the community can eventually be healed.

 

[Incident]

Thats not the thing some of us wanted. And we were promised to have a alternative offline universe.

Not all people prefer drinking beer. And not all people prefer online experience. For whatever reasons.

Now imagine that you want to play online game, as you will play, and suddenly someone is forcing you to accept to play offline only cause they have changed their minds and thought offline gameplay is the best thing for everyone. You can not discuss or negotiate about people's preferences...

Unfortunately I can't comment on the last part, I just wouldn't care. I just see the evolution of a game like this to be online as DB said in his vids - he couldn't do it before as the internet didn't exist - or wasn't publically available.

 

[TheSpackman]

Which you continue to read?

I can't work out what is wrong with me as I keep coming back here for more pain and reasoning I strongly disagree with but, this being an internet forum and all, am unable to do anything about.

I'm one of the think this is all way out of proportion gone quiet ones as I've had enough of circular arguments.

Glad there is some re-visiting of refunds going on. Hope it helps those who deserve it the most.

 

[specialsymbol]

Unsurprisingly, yes. My gaming PC has a permanent connection to the internet, so why should I play them 'offline' as you put it? Those that were bought through an online store, downloaded via an online store, are certainly played online. When my internet dies occasionally? Damn, I go to the pub or see the family (in order of preference )

If I commuted a lot, felt the need to travel with a gaming laptop and felt I had to only play ED, I'd use my 3G mobile & tether the connection. No real biggie, but hey that's just me.

I bought so many games on GOG.
I downloaded them from GOG.


And I still don't play them online. I've just proven your argument wrong.

At my workplace I can use a computer, but I can't use internet and I don't have cellphone connectivity. So what now? I can still play X3 - Reunion, but frankly, I bought the laptop for playing Elite.

 

[piotrr]

I meant that for a lot of backers the damage - mostly to our trust in Frontier Developments, and in David Braben in particular - has already been done, and that it won't get fixed with refunds (particularly given that the people taking refunds will be leaving the community, that will be diminished by that loss).

Besides that... it remains to be seen whether the apparent split in the community can eventually be healed.

This may sound harsh, but I never wanted a "community", so I care very little about any "split" in it.

To me, trust WILL be restored when I hear people are getting refunds. It's simply a moral consequence of the design choice that has been made. It's a fair exchange.

 

[Oddball]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Thank you David. That is very considerate of you. I am sure that this gesture will be gratefully received by those individuals who are not happy at the moment. As for me? I am still on the fence about the whole thing. I really really really wanted an off line version. I didn't care about the DRM, you could have put as much DRM on it as you wanted (and maybe one server authentication per week) and it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. At least I would be able to play off line when I wanted to.

Anyway, its a welcome step in the right direction so thank you.

 

[poet1960]

Unsurprisingly, yes. My gaming PC has a permanent connection to the internet, so why should I play them 'offline' as you put it? Those that were bought through an online store, downloaded via an online store, are certainly played online. When my internet dies occasionally? Damn, I go to the pub or see the family (in order of preference )

If I commuted a lot, felt the need to travel with a gaming laptop and felt I had to only play ED, I'd use my 3G mobile & tether the connection. No real biggie, but hey that's just me.

What scares me about this is, that while that is certainly your choice, to play all your games online, what happens when the CHOICE to do either off or on line goes away? Do those who prefer playing games offline just get the shaft and get told to take a hike?

The point is, everyone is entitled to play the way they want, but the trend these days seems to be moving towards maintaining a connection for everything. That is not good. Sooner or later, you won't have a choice if you don't start backing up fellow gamers who like to play a different way, no matter which side you are on.

 

[Zuikaku]

Unfortunately I can't comment on the last part, I just wouldn't care. I just see the evolution of a game like this to be online as DB said in his vids - he couldn't do it before as the internet didn't exist - or wasn't publically available.

Many people are very emotional about the games. Especially the games they liked playing when they were young and beautifull That is nostalgia element. Other people are just used to play the game at their own will and pace. And that is the problem DB didn't taken into account. I bet most of offliners are old guard players with wonderfull memories on Frontier and Elite theyy have played in childhood. And waited for remake of the game for 20 years. Patiently. That is why they take this so hard. That is why such dissappointed. SomElement that was meant to connect past and the future was knocked away.

DB should have investigated right before kickstarter how many people actually wanted badly offline mode. And what does it mean for them. He just made a crucial mistake. Thinking that everybody is thinking alike. Thinking like him. And he kapt pushing his vision not even bothering to stop for a moment and make a few checks.And that is what this all misunderstanding is about.

 

[piotrr]

I'm genuinely curious if comments about mod hunger and mod duties are on-topic or not? What is the deciding factor of what is on-topic and not? Should that post I quoted be deleted based on whatever rules you are following when deleting off-topic posts?

That wasn't the point of the post. The point of the post was to inform us that a bunch of off topic posts were deleted and it took a whole lot of time to do it.

As a moderator in other places, I can empathize with that.

 

[Papa Smurf]

There is a very simple answer to your question... We thought that an offline version would be feasible because David Braben stated this on numerous interviews, posts, kick-starter forums, etc that it would be.

I haven't played the game so take this for what is worth - What astonishes you that people have been playing beta and now asking for refund. What astonishes me is that the company (FD) would be stupid enough to let people play the game without telling them that they will be removing off-line mode opening themselves up for this type of FIRESTORM.

I fully support the decision of full refund to anyone that ask... believe what you would like but they will offer it. Anything less then that will be Company Suicide.

Google ED and you get this "Online-Only Elite: Dangerous Sparks Refund Backlash"

I really do not see how anyone thought that an offline version of this would be possible. Like the majority of massive content online based server games there is no offline version.

What astonishes myself though is how many who have been happily playing beta online think they are entitled to a refund due to an offline version not being available. You have downloaded, installed and played the game its not trialware or similar and if a change or upcoming change of your circumstances alters your internet access that is not the responsibility of FD.

I fully support the decision and the announcement in the latest newsletter regarding refunds.

 

[piotrr]

This made me immediately think of USB Inkjet Printers when bought: none of them come with a USB cable!!

They actually do, nowadays. In fact, I've even seen one or two HDMI monitors that had HDMI cables in the box instead of just VGA.

 

[StuartGT]

I bought so many games on GOG.
I downloaded them from GOG.


And I still don't play them online. I've just proven your argument wrong.

At my workplace I can use a computer, but I can't use internet and I don't have cellphone connectivity. So what now? I can still play X3 - Reunion, but frankly, I bought the laptop for playing Elite.

Eh, I didn't put an argument (to be proven right or wrong)? I simply answered the question that was asked. To clarify and avoid further misunderstanding: yes, I play my offline games while online.

 

[Papa Smurf]

DB should have investigated right before kickstarter how many people actually wanted badly offline mode. And what does it mean for them. He just made a crucial mistake. Thinking that everybody is thinking alike. Thinking like him. And he kapt pushing his vision not even bothering to stop for a moment and make a few checks.And that is what this all misunderstanding is about.

CORRECT... Do not make promises you are not going to keep. FD is a multinational company with hundreds of years of combine gaming industry experience! This was not a collage kid living in his mothers basement and pushing a project on Kickstart.

At no point in time was anyone on KICKSTARTER asked or informed about this change... Hellooo?!? They made your dream based on the promises you made to them. If you are not going to keep those promises KS policy states very clearly that you need to inform people why it is not going to be met and offer detailed breakdown on how money was spent. Was any of this done?!? No.

 

[mbpoblet]

I've even seen one or two HDMI monitors that had HDMI cables in the box instead of just VGA.

Now you're just making things up...

 

[Warbler]

That python looks so cool I might have to change my position on this.

 

[noodle]

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Really positive move, and the fact that you've made this post personally sends out the right message.