NO to "third party tools" for ED

[Jaeger]

I suddenly realized that no one talks about elephant in a room and that is "third party tools" used by players for every game they play - "to maximize gains".

I just wanted to say that in my opinion that this is what in long term destroys gaming as enjoyable pass time and moves into obsession driven sugar rush madness. It's addictive, because tools and min/max attitude enables you win. In the end, all you wanna do is win, which leads to grind. Grind leads to disappointment because at some point you figure out that all you do is grind.

I realize that everyone plays game they want to play and it is not for me to educate how to do it. I just wanted to say that there are people not using tools. They are certainly read things, and hear tips and notes. However it mostly goes out in ad hoc fashion.

So say NO to third party tools. Stick with your guns and instinct. Ask if stuck and read tips from other forumians. But don't engage in mass exploitation of shared information. If you want to find that outfit that works for you - find it. Don't obsess with configurations given you by third party sites.

This is a complete rubbish, and I am tangibly furious reading it. There is a massive lack in ED when it come to trading tools, and other 'content'.

It's a utter absolute abject failure on FD's part not to provide

A) Decent price logging and best trade route calculation "computer" in game.
B) Mechanisms for commanders to trade in commodity information in game.

This is exactly the problem with this game, the lack of depth and sophistication that we are entitled to, that we were led to believe would exist in game, and that we have been complaining about not having.

Elite: Dangerous is a glimmer of the game it should be because there is no way for emergent gameplay to occur. Economics being the de facto science of human interaction would demand that there be tools in game much like the truly exceptional "Trade Computer Extension" but that more.. much much more.

FD have failed us in regard to these "Third party tools" the proof being that they exist and are exceptionally popular.

OP's expressed opinion on this matter is specious (kinda sounds right, but is actually wrong) and shamefully short sighted given the obvious passion and regard he has for Elite. Come back from the dark side and lobby for what is good and right.

 

[Dr Roly]

None of the shops near me sold popcorn. Rather than cheat and use a 3rd party tool like Google, I visited all the shops within 50 miles until I found one that did.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I just want to know if my app. is included in his rant.

 

[Raylion]

People will say playing solo is cheating next!

 

[Cody]

<sniggers>

 

[Webferret]

None of the shops near me sold popcorn. Rather than cheat and use a 3rd party tool like Google, I visited all the shops within 50 miles until I found one that did.

You Sir, just gained Popcorn Master Rank 5, And to do that with no 3rd party tools is amazing. I myself asked my wife to buy some, so I used 3rd party tool, so I wont be asking for recognition of my achievement alas.

Now to sit back and watch for more comments whilst I munch on my popcorn as well

 

[Roybe]

People will say playing solo is cheating next!

Strike one! Next batter up? <we can definitely get this thread moved if it goes into this ditch!> LOL!


Come on everyone...who's next? (BTW Pesick, Nice troll post...exactly what was needed to brighten the place up today!)

 

[ocflyer]

Did you even read his post....?

Sounded more like a bit of good advice.

I saw no advice in the OP's post. The OP rendered his opinion of what he thinks is the *right* way to play the game. Too may people think that if the game isn't played their way, then it is cheating. Such self-righteous crap is demeaning.

 

[Bacalao]

I have a hard time getting immersed in a galaxy that doesn't have universal, instantly updated trade data available even though we have FTL comms....so I use a third party tool to add in that functionality, to be honest, it helps my immersion. I just don't get why it isn't there. Sure you can use the galaxy map, but really, why can't I call the other station...have credits, will pay for comms...seems like there is a business opportunity for some mega-corp to make a killing selling trade data one station at a time, and it could all be done with a fleet of sidewinders and some text chat...Universal Trade-o-graphics...
-
I'll also use the shipyard and any other third party tool that enhances the gameplay for me. I get no more satisfaction out of digging a hole with a spoon than I would a shovel. I'll use the best tools at my disposal. I would of course never take credit for a hole dug by someone else, because that would be cheating, but I'd certainly listen if someone told me about a better shovel.
-
I don't know, I just see some gaps in data availability and can only think of the reason being to force gameplay where there really reasonably shouldn't be. To me trading should be about building a trade network (or a black market network), high profit goods would be in shorter supply (obviously), so should go to commanders with better relations, trading becomes about interacting with the galaxy instead of flying around penciling down commodities prices for hours. On time, guaranteed delivery makes you a valuable asset, then trading becomes less about moving lots of cargo in a stripped down T-x and about making a smart loadout to move goods safely, long distances (we could still have high profits but real risk could be introduced). The low profit-high volume trading would still exist, but would be just that. The whole commodities markets confuse me....system populations in the billions dealing in the thousands of tons...? Anyway, that's a whole other thread(s).
-
I use trade/shipyard tools for ED just like I use ice cubes in my drinks, I suppose it dilutes my drink a little, but it's much more enjoyable cold, so it's totally worth it.

 

[Chaz]

None of the shops near me sold popcorn. Rather than cheat and use a 3rd party tool like Google, I visited all the shops within 50 miles until I found one that did.

Wow, you really like popcorn!

 

[GJ51]

Who cares?

Pen and paper in the 34th century where there's FTL travel...

An on board computer that can't tell you the trade data from the last place you docked...

Yet OTR truckers today can stop at any truck stop on the interstates today and accept a hauling contract from anywhere in the country.

Yeah - those 3rd party things - real immersion breakers.

Glad I'm a purist.

Don't even read the forums because everything I need is in the game.

As is obvious, this is just an illogical, mindless, steam of consciousness ramble signifying nothing.

Pretty much like the whole thread.

 

[bewl]

Strike one! Next batter up? <we can definitely get this thread moved if it goes into this ditch!> LOL!


Come on everyone...who's next? (BTW Pesick, Nice troll post...exactly what was needed to brighten the place up today!)

I am certain my inquiry about developing third party tools on the IRC channel caused pecisk to author this thread. I will also note that by asking the question (my first one ever in that channel, nonetheless...), he was immediately on a rant about how 3rd party tools are cheating (even if they collect the same type of data that a pen and paper does).

I could understand how hooking into the game's processes and spoofing data would be considered cheating, but certainly not jotting down readily avail data for referencing purposes. That to me is called being efficient, not cheating.

 

[PavelKCZ]

I suddenly realized that no one talks about elephant in a room and that is "third party tools" used by players for every game they play - "to maximize gains".

I just wanted to say that in my opinion that this is what in long term destroys gaming as enjoyable pass time and moves into obsession driven sugar rush madness. It's addictive, because tools and min/max attitude enables you win. In the end, all you wanna do is win, which leads to grind. Grind leads to disappointment because at some point you figure out that all you do is grind.

I realize that everyone plays game they want to play and it is not for me to educate how to do it. I just wanted to say that there are people not using tools. They are certainly read things, and hear tips and notes. However it mostly goes out in ad hoc fashion.

So say NO to third party tools. Stick with your guns and instinct. Ask if stuck and read tips from other forumians. But don't engage in mass exploitation of shared information. If you want to find that outfit that works for you - find it. Don't obsess with configurations given you by third party sites.

TL;DR

Bu bu bu, do not use third party tools, because you can discover how shallow the ED actually is....

We already heard this 100x times, together with "play slow, enjoy the game. If you play too much, you will be bored, because you played too much (not because there is a serious lack of content from FD)."

Pecisk, I do not want to be personal, but can you please be a bit innovative and maybe invent some new arguments, why everyone should play slowly and be in Cobra after one year of playing, because the whole enjoyment of the rest of game is for decades ?
I really do not want to be impolite or rude, but you start to repeat yourself almost as frequently as ED itself.

 

[h347h]

TL;DR

Bu bu bu, do not use third party tools, because you can discover how shallow the ED actually is....

We already heard this 100x times, together with "play slow, enjoy the game. If you play too much, you will be bored, because you played too much (not because there is a serious lack of content from FD).

Pecisk, I do not want to be personal, but can you please be a bit innovative and maybe invent some new arguments, why everyone should play slowly and be in Cobra after one year of playing, because the whole enjoynment of the rest of game is decades before him ?
I really do not want to be impolite or rude, but you start to repeat yourself almost as frequently as ED itself.

Well being a content locus is not a good thing in general. Also burnout syndrome is a real thing. It is up to you to stop doing it. However other people still play a lot and also don't share the opinion that the game is shallow.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

Too may people think that if the game isn't played their way, then it is cheating.

It is not about cheating - or at least not about cheating others. But in my opinion, it is definitely about cheating yourself and giving away quite a bit of fun and rewarding gameplay.
This is all fine and good and everybody should know what suits himself best. But somehow I have the suspicion that the same people using these trade tools are accusing ED to be shallow and boring. And this is, where my empathy ends...

 

[Bacalao]

It is not about cheating - or at least not about cheating others. But in my opinion, it is definitely about cheating yourself and giving away quite a bit of fun and rewarding gameplay.
This is all fine and good and everybody should know what suits himself best. But somehow I have the suspicion that the same people using these trade tools are accusing ED to be shallow and boring. And this is, where my empathy ends...

I don't see them becoming proponents for the depth of ED by jumping from station to station scribbling down market prices or staring at a galaxy map, deciphering trade paths only to find that you're selling at a loss. I think trading needs a lot of help and could be a genuinely engaging experience, right now, trading tools or not, it isn't (for many/most).

 

[bewl]

It is not about cheating - or at least not about cheating others. But in my opinion, it is definitely about cheating yourself and giving away quite a bit of fun and rewarding gameplay.
This is all fine and good and everybody should know what suits himself best. But somehow I have the suspicion that the same people using these trade tools are accusing ED to be shallow and boring. And this is, where my empathy ends...

I wouldn't paint everyone with the same brush. I can assure you that there are people who don't even know these tools exist, let alone use them, that feel as if the game's content is shallow and unengaging (I myself am not one of those). It doesn't require the use of a third party tool to feel that way. Perhaps some people use third party tools to fill a certain void that the game does not offer but should in their mind's eye? Something like that is definitely not unheard of for many popular video games.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Well being a content locus is not a good thing in general. Also burnout syndrome is a real thing. It is up to you to stop doing it. However other people still play a lot and also don't share the opinion that the game is shallow.

Well, I would say that with more than 600 hours in-game, I am at least a bit competent to say if the game is shallow or not.

I do not want to say that the game is bad. I am enjoying it, I recently bought the Lifetime Expansion Pass (approx. in the time when I had 500 hours in-game) and I am recommending the game to all my friends.

But it does not mean that the game IS NOT SHALLOW and that there are not tons and tons of works for FD. Maybe they can start with motion capturing, real NPCs in game, real background story, sand in the sandbox etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Fire70]

Honestly some people on this forum sigh.....

Who really gives a .... what other players do in game if it doesn't really affect you.

 

[h347h]

Well, I would say that with more than 600 hours in-game, I am at least a bit competent to say if the game is shallow or not.

I do not want to say that the game is bad. I am enjoying it, I recently bought the Lifetime Expansion Pass (approx. in the time when I had 500 hours in-game) and I am recommending the game to all my friends.

But it does not mean that the game IS NOT SHALLOW and that there are not tons and tons of works for FD. Maybe they can start with motion capturing, real NPCs in game, real background story, sand in the sandbox etc. etc. etc. etc.

1400 hours. I still don't think its shallow. Your opinion is only your opinion.