Modes Obligatory "Merge solo, open, private groups" thread

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nope I said those things. But 10 months ago when The Hotel thread still existed. I was trying to even show the imbalances then and the 7-10 of ya dog piled me like crazy as soon as I showed up. I explained my case and since then a lot has changed. They have balanced all sorts of things.

They balanced Crime and Punishment around the player, they have updated Engineers to be a level playing field and they were even talking about linking player factions to the BGS and would talk about that at a later squadrons date.

A whole lot has changed from when I first came here. I see them making changes to support the multiplayer gameplay. Thats it.

I mean why do you think people dont get the way crime and punishment works? Its not made for the NPC stuff anymore. Even though it works in all modes, as that part should. Its been reworked for the Player vs Player stuff. Thats what the community asked for.... But they dont really understand what they asked for

They are aware of the risk and reward issues with it comes to other players. They established that in 2016 with that powerplay thread. Just because they didnt do something then. Doesnt mean they wont do something during this multiplayer update. At least I hope they put some thought into it. Id be really surprised if they didnt. Its been an obvious problem for quite sometime now.

Anyways, ya'll are still telling me im wrong and flappin your gums. While im telling you they are changing it all right under ya'lls nose. And you dont want me to be right so bad you dig up comments tryna forum PVP AGAIN....

Just pay attention to what they are doing. And get involved with the game if you care about this part so much.

All of this doesn't change the fact you've been going: "I'm right, you're wrong, you'll see" from the moment you started discussing this.

Not because of forum dads, but because that's your MO.

You realise I replied to this:

This was never supposed to be a HAHA im right you're wrong. But this is what you forum dads turned it into.

Right?

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

The idea of pvp flagging is just weird.

If it is ever implemented, I'm going to visit a player group's home system in a shieldless type 9 and work against their BGS with the PvP flag off, or undermine/counter-prep powerplay systems with shieldless ships. 100% immersive content (functionally identical to undermining in solo).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The idea of pvp flagging is just weird.

Which is why it'll never happen

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

All of this doesn't change the fact you've been going: "I'm right, you're wrong, you'll see" from the moment you started discussing this.

Not because of forum dads, but because that's your MO.

You realise I replied to this:

Right?

I mean I just explained everything. I shouldnt have to do it again lol.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I mean I just explained everything. I shouldnt have to do it again lol.

You 'flapped your gums' for a while.

But fact of the matter is, you've been going: "I'm right, you're wrong, you'll see" from the moment you started discussing this. Not because of forum dads, but because that's how you behave.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You 'flapped your gums' for a while.

But fact of the matter is, you've been going: "I'm right, you're wrong, you'll see" from the moment you started discussing this. Not because of forum dads, but because that's how you behave.

lol not at all. I came here not knowing anything when I first started discussing this. I wasnt even PVPing yet. Man you really need to chill and stop with your trolling. You have no idea whats going on here. Just like you dont know whats going on in the game.

I dont know why these forums let you get away with what you do. But its whatever.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

lol not at all. I came here not knowing anything when I first started discussing this. I wasnt even PVPing yet. Man you really need to chill and stop with your trolling. You have no idea whats going on here. Just like you dont know whats going on in the game.

I dont know why these forums let you get away with what you do. But its whatever.

I am not trolling. I am just talking facts. The forum lets me get away with it, because it realises I am not trolling. Why do you think I checked my claim before I posted it?

May I remind you, I am reacting to you blaming forum dads for your behaviour. Forum dads. Calling people forum dads is trolling. Calling people out when they post something that is false is fact checking.

 

[lokvette]

Trying to work out what the benfits of playing open are, as far as I can tell its no differnt from playing in anyother mode bar the fact I migtht met the odd person. I can do that in that well know PG without having to worry if Im going to see the rebuy screen, to me thats more of a benfit that anything in the OP.

PVP flags are not for me, if this was a one shard one world sort of game then yeah it might work. but the modes are here to stay like it or lump it.

Oh and I really dont think squadons are going to be half of what people think they are going to be, or lead to anything more than what they are.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I am not trolling. I am just talking facts. The forum lets me get away with it, because it realises I am not trolling. Why do you think I checked my claim before I posted it?

May I remind you, I am reacting to you blaming forum dads for your behaviour. Forum dads. Calling people forum dads is trolling. Calling people out when they post something that is false is fact checking.

Mhmm and calling people psychopaths, mentally ill and a griefer because they tried to play the game is perfectly acceptable here. Calling someone a forum dad because they continuously troll a subsection of the forum they dont even have interest in within the game. And has expressed they have no interest in group play is not acceptable.

I understand. Carry on.

 

[Bigmaec]

That's a problem. There is no incentive to play in open except to pat on your shoulders and say "I survived it".

As a nearly full time mobius player I even dare say it's fuller in mobius at CGs than in open, at least mobius pve europe at the time I play.

And I really think there should be incentives to play in open nowadays.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Mhmm and calling people psychopaths, mentally ill and a griefer because they tried to play the game is perfectly acceptable here.

I never called anyone a psychopath, mentally ill or a griefer.

edit: and I don't feel it's acceptable. Report those instances when you see them. I do.

Calling someone a forum dad because they continuously troll a subsection of the forum they dont even have interest in within the game. And has expressed they have no interest in group play is not acceptable.

I have a lot of interest in this subsection of the game, it's the reason I discuss here.

If you feel I am trolling, I advice you to report my post. The moderators will determine whether that's the case, not you.

That's a problem. There is no incentive to play in open except to pat on your shoulders and say "I survived it".

How about game enjoyment? People play in open because they think it's more fun.

Isn't fun the best incentive for deciding how to play a game?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I never called anyone a psychopath, mentally ill or a griefer.

edit: and I don't feel it's acceptable. Report those instances when you see them. I do.

I have a lot of interest in this subsection of the game, it's the reason I discuss here.

If you feel I am trolling, I advice you to report my post. The moderators will determine whether that's the case, not you.


How about game enjoyment? People play in open because they think it's more fun.

Isn't fun the best incentive for deciding how to play a game?

Could have sworn you said, you wouldnt be caught dead in a guild. Or involved in group play. This is what people are talking about here with things like powerplay and BGS faction stuff.

Id look for that comment of yours like you did mine. But I cant remember which thread that was in because youve pretty much been in all of them.

So if you arent involved in it. And you have no experience in it. Then why are you fighting against something you have no hand in?

This is about balancing risk and reward. How the modes effect it. And how that transitions into the multiplayer part of the game.

Something you have outright said you have no interest in.

Nothing would change for you. So why you here?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Could have sworn you said, you wouldnt be caught dead in a guild. Or involved in group play. This is what people are talking about here with things like powerplay and BGS faction stuff.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a guild, I have participated in group play. Distant Worlds for instance.

But I see we're now at the point of Ad Hominem. Discredit the person who makes the argument, avoid addressing the argument.

Nothing would change for you. So why you here?

Because I have a vested interest in this game, I realise I am not playing in a vacuum, I am very keen in participating in this community and worst of all, I am very opinionated.

Furthermore, why I am posting here is not relevant, what I post is. If you feel what I post is wrong or mistaken, address the arguments I am making. I have lots of opinions about game balancing and why it would be a big mistake rewarding playing in a certain mode, instead of promoting that mode through non-monetary means. For instance I have never been opposed towards Open only features, with the condition it wouldn't take away existing content from non-Open players. In fact I have made a thread once aimed towards discussing ideas geared towards that. I have been vocal in arguing for mechanics specifically designed with PvP in mind to be implemented, rather than trying to use a mechanic specifically designed for PvE.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I wouldn't be caught dead in a guild, I have participated in group play. Distant Worlds for instance.

But I see we're now at the point of Ad Hominem. Discredit the person who makes the argument, avoid addressing the argument.


Because I have a vested interest in this game, I realise I am not playing in a vacuum, I am very keen in participating in this community and worst of all, I am very opinionated.

Furthermore, why I am posting here is not relevant, what I post is. If you feel what I post is wrong or mistaken, address the arguments I am making. I have lots of opinions about game balancing and why it would be a big mistake rewarding playing in a certain mode, instead of promoting that mode through non-monetary means. For instance I have never been opposed towards Open only features, with the condition it wouldn't take away existing content from non-Open players. In fact I have made a thread once aimed towards discussing ideas geared towards that. I have been vocal in arguing for mechanics specifically designed with PvP in mind to be implemented, rather than trying to use a mechanic specifically designed for PvE.

Youre right it is specifically used for PVE And people arent using it for PVE. They are using it against each other. Like those one click transactions. Would any of that have mattered if we couldnt effect each other? God no.

But we are. Its pretty imbalanced. And they have encouraged that part of the game play. Its an issue and people are asking for all sorts of changes regarding this type of play. The type of play you just said you wouldnt be caught dead in.

If you check this post I made earlier today, youd see that I agree with you about it being made for PVE,

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-quot-thread?p=6693320&viewfull=1#post6693320

But its not how its being used now. People are using it against each other. Again, Modes, One clicking even heat lasers would have never been an issue if we could never attack one another. But since we can. There has to be some balance to it for gameplays sake.

I dont know why this is so hard for some of you guys to understand. And they have been making those changes. Look at crime and punishment ya'll asked for and look at engineers and how it is now a level playing field.

Im trying to legitimately show you there are changes in this direction.

And I havnt even mentioned Sandro here talking about risk and reward during powerplay. They are well aware of it my dude. And a game with multiplayer features wont go on unbalanced like that forever.

Thats just common sense man.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Indirect PvP, through the BGS, PowerPlay, CGs, etc., has been part of the game design from the outset.

To suggest that it's being used incorrectly - given that it was designed that way - seems to be at odds with the Developers implementation.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Youre right it is specifically used for PVE And people arent using it for PVE. They are using it against each other.

It's still the player interacting with the environment. Other players also interacting with the environment doesn't make it any less player vs environment. The way to counter player vs environment actions is by playing vs the environment.

Im trying to legitimately show you there are changes in this direction.

With the introduction of squadrons and carriers, I am seeing them adding mechanics. Which is what I'd prefer and which is what I am arguing for. I do not see indicators of Frontier limiting BGS or PP to one mode.

I hope Frontier will find a way to use these mechanics so different play styles will still be able to interact independently of each other, but still be able to affect one another. Not by removing content from specific players, but by adding content for specific players.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Indirect PvP, through the BGS, PowerPlay, CGs, etc., has been part of the game design from the outset.

To suggest that it's being used incorrectly - given that it was designed that way - seems to be at odds with the Developers implementation.

Robert. Look at me when I say this.

One Click Transactions are specifically made for team work, solo and Co-Op play. All Transactions in powerplay are value based and not transaction based when it comes to cargo. Ship killing can be a little different though.

Anyways, The BGS was not made for Adversarial Gameplay. Ziggy is right.

But people are using the BGS something that was made for Co/op and single player gameplay. Against each other.

Dont think for one second this stuff wont go unbalanced. They've made changes to the BGS before when it came to player vs player stuff. And they will continue to do so based off of player vs player activities.

But it wasnt created for PVP. Not by a long shot.

So here we are. Now major player groups are using it against each other. Multiplayer features and guilds and ships for groups to use. If they are advocating group play. For sure they will balance group play too?

Otherwise its just an extension of powerplay. Which is also imbalanced and not working properly.

I dont want to see this stuff fall short. Because of a few solo players, or people that dont get involved with this stuff at all. Throw a fit because something changed.

And they weren't even a part of it.

Just see no room for peoples complaints here. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It's still the player interacting with the environment. Other players also interacting with the environment doesn't make it any less player vs environment. The way to counter player vs environment actions is by playing vs the environment.



With the introduction of squadrons and carriers, I am seeing them adding mechanics. Which is what I'd prefer and which is what I am arguing for. I do not see indicators of Frontier limiting BGS or PP to one mode.

I hope Frontier will find a way to use these mechanics so different play styles will still be able to interact independently of each other, but still be able to affect one another. Not by removing content from specific players, but by adding content for specific players.

They dont even have to limit them to one mode, Ive also said this from the beginning. They could drop solo and private down to 25% of what youd normally influence a system for. All materials, rewards, all that stuff would stay the same. Just the system influences you impact while in the other modes. Open you get a full 100% for taking part in it.

They could still leave all that stuff connected. All anyone is asking for is recognizing risk and reward here. This would make PVP meaningful, people would understand what they are getting into. Look, how many threads pop up with someone yelling they got griefed in open? They rules arent different there. There is no indication that open is a more dangerous place. It most certainly is. Look at mobius 80,000 stong!

They goal here is to curb in game toxicity, give meaning to pvp. Show risk and reward for your activities. And all that would merge perfectly with squadrons. Group gameplay, and hell you wouldnt have to change a damn thing. And powerplay activity would shoot through the roof!

But hey what do I know? Im just the crazy guy

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Anyways, The BGS was not made for Adversarial Gameplay.

This is wrong.

Frontier introduced the player factions in colonia because they wanted to see players fighting each other through the BGS. It's the reason I was very much opposed to introducing player factions there. Before that, there were groups forming and cooperating organically. Hell, I used to be based in Colonia until they came up with the gawdawful idea of Colonia PMFs.

 

[Han_Zen]

Indirect PvP, through the BGS, PowerPlay, CGs, etc., has been part of the game design from the outset.

To suggest that it's being used incorrectly - given that it was designed that way - seems to be at odds with the Developers implementation.

I would't even call the BGS functions, indirect PvP. The BGS is pure PvE, unless you have pledged in a CZ.

If I come to a system with an Anaconda full of fish, there is no way for a 'defender' to know if I'm a friend, a foe or a neutral. Most likely, I don't even know it my self.
The BGS is an obfuscated background process that 85% of the player base ignores. It is the environment and has not PvP element to it, unless there are active CZs.

Even members of my own Player faction are indistinguishable form other players, unless I know them.