Open - NoN PvP option

[Marra Morgan]

Rename Open to "Open PvP" and add a second "Open PvE". We're not taking anything away from you PvP players!

You'd be taking dev time away from all players.

An Open PvE mode would need a major overhaul in terms of putting in mechanics to deal with direct attacks, ramming, limpet attacks, obstruction, etc. That requires dev time. Dev time that could be spent on bug-fixes, QoL improvements and new content.
As there is already a facility for PvE groups in place, I can't see it being a particularly high priority for them.

 

[Kingtutuk]

Nearly every other successful MMO either has PvE only zones/servers or some PvP flag that players can turn on. Adding this to elite would only make it more popular and accessible which means more money for frontier to develop and fix the game and everyone wins. Why are you so against it?

There has been plenty of threads/posts about switchable flags in Open for PvP or PvE and FDev dont seem to want to bother with that concept.

 

[Kingtutuk]

Of course there is another option, just make everybodies ships and weapons invulnerable to damage of any sort, GOD MODE
All except NPC's

 

[Evanitis]

I mean, that's what most of us already do. A dedicated PvE group wont change anything from the PvP perspective. Sometimes it honestly seems like the only reason people argue against a PvE mode is they want to be able to kill players who would otherwise be enjoying a PvE mode.

I feel it would be unfair with gankers and pirates if they were seeing players they couldn't shoot. They'd be forced to waste time on players who want to have the cake, and eat it too. Alternatively, PvE players would only be seen by other PvE players... wait, that's how Mobius-PG works right now, isn't it?

I'm no fan of the option of being separated from the rest of the players.. but to each of their own. But putting the players in the same pool with the option of invulnerability is even worse from where I stand.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The problem with Open-PvE (whether a separate mode or a flag) is that the game isn't designed for two players to be in the same instance and not be able to interact negatively with each other.

Mobius works (and works well) because it has human moderators enforcing the rules, not because you literally can't shoot people in it.

You can't just say "shots on other players do no damage" - what about ramming, or barricading people into stations, or all sorts of other tricks which would you get you thrown out of Mobius in minutes for going against the spirit if not the letter of the rules but can't be detected automatically by the game.

So what would happen if they implemented it would be a giant pile of posts and bug reports about how "player <x> was able to hurt me in PvE mode" - better for Frontier not to open that can of worms.

What Frontier should do is bring in better tools for private group advertising and management so that people who want a purely PvE experience can more easily find Mobius or FleetComm or one of the other big PvE groups, and the maintainers of those groups can manage them more easily ... and if possible also try to raise the group size limit. That will be a more satisfactory experience all round than a so-called PvE mode where one can still quite easily cause inconvenience or death to another player without deploying hardpoints at all.

 

[ZeroAi]

I love this game, but I don't play it for the PvP, personal I'm not good at it and mostly I don't enjoy PvP games, its just not in my enjoyment of a game. But what I do enjoy is cooperation and playerbases, honestly some of the best times I've had on ED is interacting with people.

For me the CCC (Christmas Carrier Convoy) was the pinnacle of this, loads of people trying something together, with some vague idea of what. This started in open but quickly moved to a large private group because honestly the PvP wasn't part of what people got into the "mission" for. But it wasn't just loads of cargo ships, no we had a mix, explorers, fuel rats, security detail for NPC's and the like. People grouped up and worked together in an enjoyable way.

These days I mainly play in solo or small private groups, but honestly space is big enough already and playing solo can make it feel even more empty. However the risk of open play makes me avoid it totally. I don't want to go hundreds of light years to do a CG or an unusual event to be wordlessly killed, sure its "emergant gameplay" or "teaching lesson about sheilds" or "high wake escape" or whatever, but these aren't my enjoyment of the game. Having someone tell me about not min-maxing whilst having maxed their warship for killing quickly seems like a pretty weird way to "teach".


So here's my suggestion, a Non-PvP open. Keep the regular open allow that to affect the BGS only to make it a risk reward thing, but have a separate non-pvp section. Other MMO's have been doing this for years with the likes of Non-PvP servers on warcraft or both parties having to toggle on PvP in Diablo etc.


I want to be able to play this game with others, I don't want to deal with PvP engineered wordless one hit wonders. Its simply not enjoyable with basically minimal reward for the risk.

Thoughts, comments and amendments welcome!

+Rep

I and others have suggestion this many times - it's a great idea imo, and one that is very popular in other games.

The difference between this and the Mobius PG is (1) it would be available to EVERYONE who plays (no searching the web to learn about Mobius) and (2) wound not require all the time and effort Mobius must put in to maintaining the PG (i.e. vetting signups, etc)

Win-Win

o7

Here's a radical idea...

Just let open be open and drop the "I want a safe space" crap?

There is PG and SOlo mode if you don't want to PvP.

Sometimes I don't want to PvP.. I either use Solo, or alternatively.. Just wake.

If you've done a measure of engineering no gank squad is going to have the time to kill you before you submit and wake. Not even in an eagle.

Here's a sane idea - we'll ask for what features we want, and won't give a crap about your degrading remarks

Many in this thread have already listed some great advantages of this.

Yeah it's not for everyone, but that is not going to stop those who want it from asking for it!

 

[jmp470]

This topic has been long debated. Their are pros and cons to every option in the game. Personally, I was a dedicated open only person for a long time. But, the game mechanics changed for the worse, and now I do Mobius.

Pvp has a time and place in ED. However, the crime and punishment system is not properly flushed out to balance dumb PvP play.

This is where SC currently does it significantly better. (I thought that is always subject to change as it’s open development)

Gankers should all be wanted and only have a limited way to pay off fines. Also the should issue warrants for people death. And their location should show up to all clean commanders.

There should be no rest for the wicked.

 

[Peoplearestrange]

The problem with Open-PvE (whether a separate mode or a flag) is that the game isn't designed for two players to be in the same instance and not be able to interact negatively with each other.

This is actually a good point, there would have to be some change to the game to implement anything like this sadly. There isn't another "mode" where people simple can't do damage to other players or even NPC ships. The only thing undamagable to my knowledge is structures or capital ships.

This might actually be the main hinder to this idea, more so that hurting PvPer's feelings :/

This topic has been long debated. Their are pros and cons to every option in the game. Personally, I was a dedicated open only person for a long time. But, the game mechanics changed for the worse, and now I do Mobius.

Pvp has a time and place in ED. However, the crime and punishment system is not properly flushed out to balance dumb PvP play.

This is where SC currently does it significantly better. (I thought that is always subject to change as it’s open development)

Gankers should all be wanted and only have a limited way to pay off fines. Also the should issue warrants for people death. And their location should show up to all clean commanders.

There should be no rest for the wicked.

I agree there is a time and a place for PvP, genuinely I've enjoyed some of the interactions I've had with pirates (yes even the ones where I got blown up or lost my cargo). But again as you say theres no markable difference in terms of punishment of genuine compelling interaction and being wordlessly blown up for the nth time by someone who has a massively better ship than you (I dont have the In game money to survive an assult from a fully decked out conda or even have anything that could slightly toe-to-toe).

Maybe a decent bounty system could help? But that is not this thread.

The difference between this and the Mobius PG is (1) it would be available to EVERYONE who plays (no searching the web to learn about Mobius) and (2) wound not require all the time and effort Mobius must put in to maintaining the PG (i.e. vetting signups, etc)

This was my view yup. I mean honestly I hadn't heard of Mobius until this thread and I'm not exactly new to the game, I just never did that much searching around PG's. Maybe a stop gap would be to improve PG's as you say, allow a way to search via the game and allow more users per group and better admining tools.


I feel its important to say again that this is a suggestion, this isn't "I want this idea exactly as it is implemented now!". I want to hear peoples ideas and changes and to understand the main crux of the problem so I can make this game more enjoyable for both myself and those who also experience the same frustrations with open. This is my base idea of how to possibly fix it.

 

[Ratzass]

+1

I totally support the idea of a PvP/PvE flag that would allow for all commanders being put in the same universe, instead of having separate game modes.

I've read about Mobius quite often in this thread, and have joined it myself some moths ago. It's nice for community goals when a lot of cmdrs come to one place, but otherwise you might as well play in the empty solo mode. The number of players is just too low and thus it's unlikely to meet other players randomly in this huge galaxy. (too low is actually misleading, the mobius group is massive)

A PvE/PvP flag would benefit all players as there are no drawbacks at all. This would bring more people into the same universe making it feel more alive and allowing for more interaction.
For some activities like Powerplay there could be forced PvP... to satisfy those who enjoy it.

After all all we want is more interaction with people, without being restricted to only a small faction of all players currently online.
We just don't like being killed by *******s, who think it's funny to blow up clearly inferior ships for no reason at all. And sadly there are way to many of them.

 

[Para Handy]

Two things:

1 - Yes to having PvE co-operative mode.

2 - Give us a voice chat for general all players in an instance not just the wing / friend thing.

If it wasn't for the awful type-a-text comms then Open would probably be even more popular than it already is. Make a version of "Open" that precludes non-consensual PvP and give it voice chat in the instance and you will be onto a winner.

 

[Asp Explorer]

After all all we want is more interaction with people, without being restricted to only a small faction of all players currently online.

For some maybe. I usually only want to play Elite with people I want to play with - and that's usually achieved by us meeting up on a LAN and enjoying beer and pizza / savage curry.

Rubberbanding randoms take all the fun of it out for me

 

[comdr0303]

+1

1) I've read about Mobius quite often in this thread, and have joined it myself some moths ago. It's nice for community goals when a lot of cmdrs come to one place, but otherwise you might as well play in the empty solo mode.

2) We just don't like being killed by *******s. And sadly there are way to many of them.

1) I was in Mobius for a while also, it's like in solo but w friends to chat, loved it. I accidently pushed the wrong button in the menu (drunk or tired) and was out of Mobius...

2) Its not the killing alone...And yes there are more of them in the real world also.

I would like to see this game having a non violent mode, where we could live in peace and make humanity great...i know, it's evil to the bone and always has been. Games like this give people no hope for a better future, reality to the core...

 

[comdr0303]

I love this game, but I don't play it for the PvP, personal I'm not good at it and mostly I don't enjoy PvP games, its just not in my enjoyment of a game. But what I do enjoy is cooperation and playerbases, honestly some of the best times I've had on ED is interacting with people.

For me the CCC (Christmas Carrier Convoy) was the pinnacle of this, loads of people trying something together, with some vague idea of what. This started in open but quickly moved to a large private group because honestly the PvP wasn't part of what people got into the "mission" for. But it wasn't just loads of cargo ships, no we had a mix, explorers, fuel rats, security detail for NPC's and the like. People grouped up and worked together in an enjoyable way.

These days I mainly play in solo or small private groups, but honestly space is big enough already and playing solo can make it feel even more empty. However the risk of open play makes me avoid it totally. I don't want to go hundreds of light years to do a CG or an unusual event to be wordlessly killed, sure its "emergant gameplay" or "teaching lesson about sheilds" or "high wake escape" or whatever, but these aren't my enjoyment of the game. Having someone tell me about not min-maxing whilst having maxed their warship for killing quickly seems like a pretty weird way to "teach".


So here's my suggestion, a Non-PvP open. Keep the regular open allow that to affect the BGS only to make it a risk reward thing, but have a separate non-pvp section. Other MMO's have been doing this for years with the likes of Non-PvP servers on warcraft or both parties having to toggle on PvP in Diablo etc.


I want to be able to play this game with others, I don't want to deal with PvP engineered wordless one hit wonders. Its simply not enjoyable with basically minimal reward for the risk.

Thoughts, comments and amendments welcome!

+1
I don't mind the npc's anymore, but sometimes like last night and the night before it made me mad. I did not had any special mission but just cargo w a few hauls to make in normal systems...got attacked 4 times/4 minutes and several times the same in 15 min. I counted 18 interdictions that i evaded yesterday...and they want us in open where there would be no escape from interdiction ? How long would an interdiction take then, multiply w 18 ? No time for that dudes, i have my thing to do in game and doing stupid evasive maneuvers is not my idea of a nice gameplay.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

1) I was in Mobius for a while also, it's like in solo but w friends to chat, loved it. I accidently pushed the wrong button in the menu (drunk or tired) and was out of Mobius...

2) Its not the killing alone...And yes there are more of them in the real world also.

I would like to see this game having a non violent mode, where we could live in peace and make humanity great...i know, it's evil to the bone and always has been. Games like this give people no hope for a better future, reality to the core...

The game is billed as a dystopia.
You are describing a different game entirely.

 

[60mm]

PVP/PVE flag settable only when docked would be most excellent. I would be permanently on Open if that were available. PVP is fun but I often need to go AFK, so Open is a usually a no-go for me.

 

[Lestat]

I stick to Mobius.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I knew I could count on someone!

 

[Wyldwiisel]

I see a lot of posts on how popular open is so here's a challenge to FD have open PvP and open PvE and have a little number on the end of that ,that shows how many players are online and then we as a community can let the numbers decide

 

[Peoplearestrange]

Two things:

1 - Yes to having PvE co-operative mode.

2 - Give us a voice chat for general all players in an instance not just the wing / friend thing.

If it wasn't for the awful type-a-text comms then Open would probably be even more popular than it already is. Make a version of "Open" that precludes non-consensual PvP and give it voice chat in the instance and you will be onto a winner.

A voice chat for open would be nice, at least to dial up the person your about to gib. That add something I suppose.
I think maybe you're right, it needs to be called a Co-Op mode or somethign similar

The game is billed as a dystopia.
You are describing a different game entirely.

You don't give up in painting the game how you want to see it do you?
The only thing the game is billed as is a persistant universe sci-fi space adventure.
Or as the ED title page says "PLAY YOUR WAY - Experience infinite freedom as you earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite." I'm meerly asking for another option on that supposed infitite

I see a lot of posts on how popular open is so here's a challenge to FD have open PvP and open PvE and have a little number on the end of that ,that shows how many players are online and then we as a community can let the numbers decide

This is what I'd ask for! A test/trail, that way we can compare comparable data sets and see actual figures, rather than only taking it from assumption. It might turn out that running both modes might be too expensive in the long run but surely a trail is at least viable? It be nice to have feedback from someone who knows how the code/game works and if this is at all feasible.

I knew I could count on someone!

Can you still tell yourself that you're not a troll?

 

[Luftwaffle_]

I completely agree with the idea of making Open more friendly to those of us who don't want to PvP, but I don't think switching PvP off completely is how it should be done. IMO C&P should be tweaked to make the consequences of randomly murdering neutral players so significant that people won't do it just for fun. Attacking a neutral (not wanted and not pledged to an enemy power or fighting for an enemy minor faction at a CZ) player in a populated non-Anarchy system should result in a large galaxy-wide bounty/wanted status as well as several notoriety points, and your ship should be impounded permanently if you get caught, regardless of whether you have enough credits to pay off all of your bounties.