Pay2Win made it to Elite

[Rat Catcher]

People are scrambling to engineer SCO....I will be too, I have 39 to do.

This is curious...
I have done exactly 1, I may, or may not, do another 2 in the fullness of time.
I shall not be replacing the FSD on my entire fleet of 42 ships on this account with the SCO drive, it isn't needed for most.

Of course, I'll keep the option open to do more, should I perceive the need, but for a fraction of a LY on jump, I'm not in a mad rush to engineer my play hours away all at once.

 

[Taimaru]

Never understood such a negative attitude... Possibly as I'd like to see folk enjoying the game and learning as they go, after all, the starter sidey is zero rebuy too!

I can't understand it as well especially as the changes mean more people can choose to do some activities early on instead of having to wait months.

The only thing I can think of is some are annoyed that there could be less salt obtained within the game as new commanders may not be able to be blown up in 30 seconds or less.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Never understood such a negative attitude... Possibly as I'd like to see folk enjoying the game and learning as they go, after all, the starter sidey is zero rebuy too!

'nuff said, mate

 

[galahad2069]

The P2 Stellar is an OK ship, not a great ship.

Also, if you are using any kind of a useful loadout, it's not gonna be zero rebuy ship, only a relatively cheap-to-rebuy one (about 1.5M rebuy cost with basic lightweight armour, 4.5M (ish) with military armour IIRC).

 

[Rebel Yell]

Also, if you are using any kind of a useful loadout, it's not gonna be zero rebuy ship, only a relatively cheap-to-rebuy one (about 1.5M rebuy cost with basic lightweight armour, 4.5M (ish) with military armour IIRC).

Yeah, our piracy version is 2.9M rebuy (half of the other medium ships we use).

 

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Hi All

The P2 Stellar is an OK ship, not a great ship.

Hmm, I see.
I'm out exploring / mining at the moment so I'm in no rush to get back to the bubble. The Python MK2 ain't going nowhere so I'll hold back from exchanging ARX for the ship at this present time.
Incidentally since the update (on a side note) I've experienced some of the old bugs concerning transfer of items to and from my Carrier to ship ( Federal Corvette) (more noticeable with limpets for some reason) has re-surfaced. I can work around it but there seems to be some hiccups to this feature at the moment.

Jack

 

[Rat Catcher]

The Python MK2 ain't going nowhere so I'll hold back from exchanging ARX for the ship at this present time.

If it was engineered heavily, it would be reasonable...
But, the vanilla P2 is a lovely blank canvas, and, if the Stellar is purchased, still has the ship kit / PJ to use. (which is nice!) so it can be tarted-up straight off (the basic colour is reasonable too).
I've made a silly build vanilla for a Haz Res outing later, it may go pop...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I remember the original DDF discussions over whether Elite would be Elite still if it was just microjumps. rather than allowing free travel - hence the introduction of SuperCruise.

I've argued on multiple occasions that SuperCruise, in its implemented form has always been a bit of mistake - precisely because it doesn't allow for encounters 'along the way'. And the new SCO drives compound the mistake IMHO. Elite is, for me, a space flight game, and interactions with enemies should take place in the flight between arrival at the star, and reaching you destination station. Coming from a flight sim background, I've always felt that SuperCruise in E: D has been a bit of a wasted opportunity.

Personally, I'd have liked to have seen SC be much slower, with lower top speeds and a far shallower acceleration curve, to allow for more NPC and PC interdiction gameplay, but also with stealth/speed coming into play - i.e. tying SC visibility into factors such as current speed, type of hull coating and overall heat generation, and SC speed into ship mass and FSD size. I'd have also liked to have seen elements of weapons in SC (e.g. FTL/FSD equipped missiles, with the ability to force a low wake drop) etc. You could also add things like ships with large range 'interdiction field' modules with a radius of 50ls or so, or static weapons platforms/anomalies to avoid that act in supercruise. Anyway, I'm spit balling as none of that is ever going to happen. FWIW I've also never had anything against in-system micro-jumps between stars as a way to making gameplay more interesting in big systems. And from previous discussions on the forum, the moment you say 'SC should be slower' people look at you like you broke wind in an elevator.

At the moment if feels like we're cutting the 'space' out of a 'space' game because Frontier never got round to... er... 'filling the void' as it were. It's becoming a 'warp to the next box' game - which is a shame.

would some of this not be sorted by "simply" (note the " ") populating the instance before you drop in.

ie when i drop in, its always empty which gives me plenty of time to plan my next hop or get my speed up to be on my way.......... however if a whole host of wings of pirates and assassins or what ever were seeded through out the system before i jumped in, then the chances of me being forced to confront some of them would be significantly increased.

as for mini hops. personally i would have liked a compromise. once a system had been fully scanned and the data sent back to UC, each star could have its own nav beacon (possibly after a mission to build said nav beacon), then I would be ok with the ability to jump to any nav beacon within a system. The player would then still need to run the gauntlet to get to the space station or what ever.

 

[K Olley]

This is curious...
I have done exactly 1, I may, or may not, do another 2 in the fullness of time.
I shall not be replacing the FSD on my entire fleet of 42 ships on this account with the SCO drive, it isn't needed for most.

Of course, I'll keep the option open to do more, should I perceive the need, but for a fraction of a LY on jump, I'm not in a mad rush to engineer my play hours away all at once.

When I get back I have 2 ships (Sidewinder and Asp) that I will upgrade.

I am also going to buy 1 of each (A) size and engineer them and then place them in storage on carrier for use as needed.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

would some of this not be sorted by "simply" (note the " ") populating the instance before you drop in.

Some of it would, yes - though the mathematics of supercruise acceleration would still only make you interceptable at the start or end of a journey, with the start depending very much on the NPCs not only being present but also in the right position, and the end still dependent on the player cooperating with a pirate-approved 0:06 final approach rather than doing something more interesting.

I can think of various "solutions" - most of them conceptually fairly simple too - but I think after almost ten years of doing it this way and getting players used to "fights which you don't choose to start are at best highly controversial" [1]/"it's fine for ships to be incapable of self-defence" anything which changes that is going to be too difficult to get through no matter how it's done technically.

As I mentioned in another thread recently, removing interdiction entirely and having all hostilities take place because you sought out an NPC - or another player - to fight in normal space would probably be the most consistent approach from Frontier to move to. It's not the sort of game I'd be particularly interested in but it'd probably be a popular change overall given that ED over the last ten years has selected for players who like it that way.

[1] As the Thargoid Glaives and Scythes showed, PvP was never the real complaint; an NPC which can beat you is equally if not more unpopular.

At the moment if feels like we're cutting the 'space' out of a 'space' game because Frontier never got round to... er... 'filling the void' as it were. It's becoming a 'warp to the next box' game - which is a shame.

It's a necessity of realistic (or even NMS-style "still pretty big" scales) to some extent that the gameplay takes place in boxes. Even FE2/FFE with the travel-based encounters had them all essentially occur in their own little box because of the distances involved - no chance of anyone else showing up within a few hours of the fight starting. Having encounters develop organically pretty much requires restricting space to the few hundred/thousand kilometres of X4 or Oolite or similar (which then means no planetary landings, of course)

I can see Frontier's point in therefore trying to make the boxes more interesting rather than focusing on the bits in-between.

 

[Fizzatron]

Wonder what the steam charts are saying about concurrent players in the last hour? (and how many of them are in Python Mk II ships?)

Helldivers 2 & Tarkov are likely still soaking up all the drama for the seekers of such things. It would be interesting if Frontier mentioned how successful they were, I would imagine they might have done pretty well.

 

[St0rmFury]

Helldivers 2 & Tarkov are likely still soaking up all the drama for the seekers of such things. It would be interesting if Frontier mentioned how successful they were, I would imagine they might have done pretty well.

They're improving I guess

 

[Rulyam Van Houten]

I’m not too worried about the Python mark 2.

Elite had these free to play features right from the beginning. The grind was and probably is still horrendous.

But as long as everything is available through normal gameplay, I’m OK with it. It is fundamentally a good thing if FD finds a way to get more money out of Elite. Monetization brings in money and we get more content.

 

[House0fDerp]

They never need to even get in the Sidewinder, Isn't that something!

In times past there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth over people skipping the early learning phases of the game through earning credits too fast. While I don't miss it, I didn't think it's true end point was going to be like this.

Never understood such a negative attitude... Possibly as I'd like to see folk enjoying the game and learning as they go, after all, the starter sidey is zero rebuy too!

I know it's not what you meant, but repeatedly putting the PM2 prebuilt on the same standing as the minimum stopgap ship designed to keep you from failing your way into a literal inability to play the game doesn't do any favors for the perception of a premium currency add on.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I know it's not what you meant, but repeatedly putting the PM2 prebuilt on the same standing as the minimum stopgap ship designed to keep you from failing your way into a literal inability to play the game doesn't do any favors for the perception of a premium currency add on.

The pre-built P2 is a great step up from the Sidey, for anyone who cares enough to buy one.(and future pre-builds will permit the other professions to be explored easily)
Both ships have the same rebuy cost, both are fun to fly (I still have my starter sidey) and both will permit the player to gain the skills needed to further enjoy the game.
It would have been a good idea, if someone bought a pre-built, to 'give' them a barebones, with all those "E" rated modules, to help them to learn some ship building skills.

The game does need more players to join in the fun, spending a reasonable amount to have a leg-up isn't too bad an idea, at least, not when those ships remain at a price that might be afforded by many, rather than just an elite.

Personally, I think, had there been a similar package on offer when I started playing, I'd have been very likely to sample it - and certainly would have starting my 2nd account, even with knowledge of the games essential workings. (I'm still finding out the odd new thing these days, 7 years on!)

 

[House0fDerp]

The pre-built P2 is a great step up from the Sidey, for anyone who cares enough to buy one.(and future pre-builds will permit the other professions to be explored easily)
Both ships have the same rebuy cost, both are fun to fly (I still have my starter sidey) and both will permit the player to gain the skills needed to further enjoy the game.
It would have been a good idea, if someone bought a pre-built, to 'give' them a barebones, with all those "E" rated modules, to help them to learn some ship building skills.

The game does need more players to join in the fun, spending a reasonable amount to have a leg-up isn't too bad an idea, at least, not when those ships remain at a price that might be afforded by many, rather than just an elite.

Personally, I think, had there been a similar package on offer when I started playing, I'd have been very likely to sample it - and certainly would have starting my 2nd account, even with knowledge of the games essential workings. (I'm still finding out the odd new thing these days, 7 years on!)

I'd still argue all of this suggests revisions to the base game would serve all new players better than selling access to a higher baseline for cash since new players will not be earning the Arx for it for a while.

Edit: Thinking about it, I'd question what the sidewinder failure state even accomplishes in the new world of prebuilt ships aside from another incentive to spend as a new player. Maybe it's as good time to revisit that as any.

 

[Lobstris]

would some of this not be sorted by "simply" (note the " ") populating the instance before you drop in.

ie when i drop in, its always empty which gives me plenty of time to plan my next hop or get my speed up to be on my way.......... however if a whole host of wings of pirates and assassins or what ever were seeded through out the system before i jumped in, then the chances of me being forced to confront some of them would be significantly increased.

as for mini hops. personally i would have liked a compromise. once a system had been fully scanned and the data sent back to UC, each star could have its own nav beacon (possibly after a mission to build said nav beacon), then I would be ok with the ability to jump to any nav beacon within a system. The player would then still need to run the gauntlet to get to the space station or what ever.

Potentially seeding the system with NPCs would work, and have another advantage too. It's always been an obvious, visible giveaway that another player was in system when you jump in and there's already AI traffic around. I also like the multiple nav beacon idea.
Another potential solution would be to have fast supercruise, but drop out around 500km from a station, rather than 5-20km, giving time for interactions to happen in normal space on approach.

 

[HRDiagram]

The P2 Stellar is an OK ship, not a great ship stellar.

There, fixed it for you.

 

[Lobstris]

It's a necessity of realistic (or even NMS-style "still pretty big" scales) to some extent that the gameplay takes place in boxes. Even FE2/FFE with the travel-based encounters had them all essentially occur in their own little box because of the distances involved - no chance of anyone else showing up within a few hours of the fight starting. Having encounters develop organically pretty much requires restricting space to the few hundred/thousand kilometres of X4 or Oolite or similar (which then means no planetary landings, of course)

I can see Frontier's point in therefore trying to make the boxes more interesting rather than focusing on the bits in-between.

Frontier/FFE wasn't a box though - it was still organic and seemless, in that the interception took place in normal space. Yes, the interception maths were somewhat 'faked' to get the AI to the same approximate (relativistic) speed as the player, for combat to occur at feasible relative speeds. I accept your point that, due to the speeds involved, no other vessels could hope to be involved, and, also due to the speeds/times/distances involved, multiplayer wouldn't work in that context at all.
E: D still doesn't feel like 'Elite' to me, without really allowing in flight interceptions/interdictions. Other's mileage may vary.

 

[Lobstris]

SCO does not cut the flight out of the flight sim. It only cuts out the part where you are already aimed and you're safe using full throttle. All the interest in flying the ship is in all the other phases of getting from A to B. The part where you are mashing full throttle and doing nothing else are now replaced by fighting with the squirming overboost. It's put more flight IN to the flight sim.

(This is separate to the interdiction discussion.)

It removes the 'flight' from the flight sim in that it potentially reduces interdiction possibilities. That said, given how 'squirrely' it is, it may increase the chance of interdictions in the short-term as people overshoot their destinations, and need to course correct.
Also, see my previous post that SC should be slower but filled with more gameplay. The SCO thing is a band-aid over a gaping wound, but one that's been gaping for 10 years, so I know I'm on a loser with this one.