I don't think anyone should presume to know. Maybe Iben has some idea, as he seems to be involved in game development (forgive me, Iben, I don't actually remember how it is you know so much about this stuff).
Planet Zoo 2 Speculation and ideas
- Thread starter yoav_r
- Start date
Re seasons: Linking Seasons to actual calender time would not work in the current time. It would be a constant, quick calculating of things, the way that time litterally runs. We have 1 second per day currently or so. It would be a constant Snow > Hot Summer > Snow > Hot Summer and the animals and guest constantly reacting to it, then changing behaviour again etc. Computers would explode with the constant calculating, making PZ only suitable for really high end gaming PCs, and remember, there are still people who want to play the game on a toaster (meaning the constant Switch requests).
It is the same reason why nesting and egg laying never made any sense in PZ. The way time works.
Now, with Planet Coaster 2 they changed how time works. Tbh, I find it even more annoying and am unsure if the slowing down of the time THAT MUCH benefits Planet Zoo 2, because people would wait forever for offspring then.
Personally, while I am glad we have weather, I am already turning that off because it hinders my building. If it were for me things could stay as they are but we would have an additional option to hide snow and rain in pause mode, so I can build in peace AND use weather.
It is the same reason why nesting and egg laying never made any sense in PZ. The way time works.
Now, with Planet Coaster 2 they changed how time works. Tbh, I find it even more annoying and am unsure if the slowing down of the time THAT MUCH benefits Planet Zoo 2, because people would wait forever for offspring then.
Personally, while I am glad we have weather, I am already turning that off because it hinders my building. If it were for me things could stay as they are but we would have an additional option to hide snow and rain in pause mode, so I can build in peace AND use weather.
In general i think it would be way cooler if the passage of time was slowed way down. I just kinda hate how franchise incentivize you to build puppy mills and breed for rare and crazy color morphs, its just so disconnected from real zoos and goes against the conservation message people always talk about, that i really hope frontier thouroughly reworks that mode.
Like wouldnt it be way cooler when you get to have animals for a long time? Form a connection to those individuals, some of longlived species like crocs or apes might actually witness a big time of your zoos history?
Likewise i feel like having breeding success should be a way bigger deal, similar to how it is irl, instead of just another elephant calf among the other dozens
I personally would like the planet coaster 2 system but I do see how breeding and time progression would be way slowed. Maybe a “day” would equal a quarter or month? Idk something that’s slow but we’re still progressing. ZT2s time felt like a good middle ground
Yep, breeding is too easy, which actually emphasizes breeding for color morphs in franchise, as it's the only way things are interesting.
I always advocated for more animal personality as well, to give me a challenge. I myself have become a pure builder in the game and while I think that is also because I enjoy building and the creativity with it, it also is because interacting with the animals is kinda.. dull. The only way to change it is to play on hard mode and then swap out enrichment items every other minute, but that is more busy than meaningful game play for me.
This is one of the main reasons I dont play in franchise mode ever the animals dont feel important when you just constantly churning them out.
Overall I agree with what has been said.
For time speed I feel the same it's too quick. And so animal breeding feel industrial.
On breeding programs, to be honest, it seems to me that Frontier did a great job about it with Franchise Mode, at least they made a very good foundation.
I'm not working in zoos or conservation but from what I know about it, the main keys for breeding programs are :
To conclude I feel like the main thing to make people feel they're involved in breeding programs is to work on conservation mechanics. Making Franchise Mode a way better mode that attracts players thanks to new mechanics and progression. While obviously keeping the possibility to create freely in sandbox mode.
Personnally I do both : I create my buildings in sandbox mod, test some concepts I have for habitats, and then I introduce them in my Franchise zoos. Habitats themselves, however, because of plants requirement (and I don't want it to disappear as it's a real key on animal welfare), I only make them in Franchise but it's not a problem to me.
For time speed I feel the same it's too quick. And so animal breeding feel industrial.
On breeding programs, to be honest, it seems to me that Frontier did a great job about it with Franchise Mode, at least they made a very good foundation.
I'm not working in zoos or conservation but from what I know about it, the main keys for breeding programs are :
- Genetic variety, achievable with zoos coordination, so animal trade between players is a great function for that. The mechanic with inbreeding also reflect the main problem for zoos to breed viable animals, so it feels ok but need more depth to "guide" players to care about that.
- Animal welfare : It's already in game and I think in a good way. It's very easy yes, even in hardmode, but players already make their animals happy with all the requirements. The point about enrichment is relevant, switching manually is not interesting. Maybe with planification on enclosures to make keepers switching them regularly ? (wouldn't work for every items though)
- Research : To know animal requirements, behaviours, mating process etc... We kinda have it but could be strengthen and more complex.
- Reintroduction : We already can do that but as I said in my first (way too long) post, it's not fleshed out. It needs to be financed by zoos cause you have to rehabilitate individuals to live in the wild. The rehab can't be done with gameplay mechanics as it's not IN zoos but on the field. That's why I talked about financing conservation programs and the mechanic that looks like digging sites in Jurassic World Evolution (bringing commitment and progression).
To conclude I feel like the main thing to make people feel they're involved in breeding programs is to work on conservation mechanics. Making Franchise Mode a way better mode that attracts players thanks to new mechanics and progression. While obviously keeping the possibility to create freely in sandbox mode.
Personnally I do both : I create my buildings in sandbox mod, test some concepts I have for habitats, and then I introduce them in my Franchise zoos. Habitats themselves, however, because of plants requirement (and I don't want it to disappear as it's a real key on animal welfare), I only make them in Franchise but it's not a problem to me.
Regarding enrichment: It could be changed to have some basic, natural enrichment items and how well they are used and enriching is based on the training level of the keepers and the funds used for enriching. That would be similar in real life. Some keepers are creative and know how to enrich the animals - others are not. And sometimes enriching means also paying extra (for new balls and stuffies to destroy, extra snacks etc.)
Maybe we could also include the vets. Like good trained vets could also spend their time on medical training somehow, which can also be enriching for many animals.
Maybe we could also include the vets. Like good trained vets could also spend their time on medical training somehow, which can also be enriching for many animals.
Honestly I’m looking forward to birds, not just because I like them, but because they are a massive open hole of a niche in PZ1.
Every NA section I have been to in Zoos have had eagles, bald eagles very typically, but the Topeka Zoo had golden eagles. Even if NA has “good representation” in PZ1, without this key animal every single section feels shorted. Obviously we now have mods, but for those who like to play vanilla or are on console you have no choice.
So compared to the rest of the roster, these would probably be the “ABC” zoo birds, specifically the flighted ones. Flamingos, ducks, pheasants, cranes, peacocks, emus, ostriches, etc are all ABC zoo animals, but we either have them in game or we could get them in PZ1. So for flying birds here are what I consider the basic ABC Zoo picks:
Every NA section I have been to in Zoos have had eagles, bald eagles very typically, but the Topeka Zoo had golden eagles. Even if NA has “good representation” in PZ1, without this key animal every single section feels shorted. Obviously we now have mods, but for those who like to play vanilla or are on console you have no choice.
So compared to the rest of the roster, these would probably be the “ABC” zoo birds, specifically the flighted ones. Flamingos, ducks, pheasants, cranes, peacocks, emus, ostriches, etc are all ABC zoo animals, but we either have them in game or we could get them in PZ1. So for flying birds here are what I consider the basic ABC Zoo picks:
- Bald Eagle, probably as important to a North American section as the bison and alligators.
- Macaw, going more widespread about any macaw will do. Scarlet is most famous, but hyacinth and blue and gold are also popular. What’s interesting is they can exist outside of a South American section. Sometimes they are housed in random spots around the zoo.
- Toucan, unlike Macaws these birds are housed typically in a SA section. Still an ABC zoo animal (though I recognize this is an opinion)
- Snowy Owl, probably the owl most people would recognize, good arctic representation and also common in Europe and NA.
- Great Indian Hornbill, admittedly a bit more of an oddball, but probably the hornbill as far as most people are concerned.
- Laughing Kookaburra, important representation for Australia, this species has a sound so iconic it’s hard to believe this game doesn’t have them.
- Budgies/ Rainbow lorikeets, can’t believe we got the WTE and not these guys. The walkthrough bird species, a lot of zoos have one or the other in some section. Feeding stations are a common money maker as well.
- African vultures, similar to macaws when people think of vultures or the Savannah they will think of these guys. Vultures are well known animals, and I thought an African one would fit the status of an “ABC” zoo animal a bit more.
- Peafowl
- Ostrich
- Emu
- Flamingos
- Penguins
- Swans
- Ducks
- Cranes
- Pelicans
- Pheasants
- Domestic fowl in petting zoos
I like the idea of automating, or at least allowing the option to automate, enrichment. Having to swap out 5 enrichments each for 8 habitats every 40 minutes of game time is just dumb. As is having to spam 15 food enrichment that clutters up a large habitat.
Tie enrichment directly to Keepers to allow them to periodically remove old entertainment enrichment and add in new ones. Also, when the habitat needs more food enrichment, the Keeper can just fill up a variety of them in the Keeper Hut and add them in to the habitat. Removes some of the tedium for the player.
Tie enrichment directly to Keepers to allow them to periodically remove old entertainment enrichment and add in new ones. Also, when the habitat needs more food enrichment, the Keeper can just fill up a variety of them in the Keeper Hut and add them in to the habitat. Removes some of the tedium for the player.
Natural and less artificial/obtrusive enrichment items would be brilliant, as would more varied feeding methods and ideally, more realistic food.
Like scattered grass or hay on the floor rather than the feeding tray things.
And I hate the huge piles of fish that appear in my penguin enclosures - I’d actually like to make them invisible.
Like scattered grass or hay on the floor rather than the feeding tray things.
And I hate the huge piles of fish that appear in my penguin enclosures - I’d actually like to make them invisible.
I want to see appropriately dressed peeps in PZ2. Make biome specific peep outfit models. I don’t want guests showing up to my taiga biome zoo in December wearing shorts, tee shirts, and tank tops and then watching them freeze while they walk around while it’s snowing. It’s annoying to have to litter my zoo with heaters to make them comfortable.
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Honestly i kinda suspect that they will leave most of the big name birds for the dlcs.
Flying birds and an aviary mechanic in itself will already be a huge draw, even if the starting roster is "only" less desirable/lesser known birds. Im thinking something like african grey parrot and golden eagle instead of macaws and bald eagle.
But the games roster had most of the ABC terrestrial animals I think the base game for the sequel will have a lot of the abc birds and probably leave out a couple of crucial ones
I think there will be a balance. For example, we could get:
- Macaw (base game) and toucan (DLC)
- Eurasian eagle owl (base game) and snowy owl (DLC)
- Cockatoo (base game) and kookaburra (DLC)
- Golden eagle (base game) and bald eagle (DLC)
- penguins (base game) and puffins (DLC)
- Swan (base game) and pelican (DLC)
- hornbill (base game) and condor (DLC)
And I would still take that in a heartbeat at this point.
Honestly this is the way I am expecting it to go, and I think it’s gonna be worth it. I am a tad bit worried, just because I can see Frontier not including more than a bird per DLC. Which is better than what we have now, but definitely not what we would need. Like if we get an arctic DLC, I would much rather see a potential roster that has a “flying bird” in the snowy owl and a “habitat bird” like a puffin.
Obviously I’m also worried if I have to wait years to get a duck, but hopefully the mute swan was just a taste for the future of PZ’s waterfowl. ZT2 is better than ZT1 (imo), so I am hoping PZ2 follows that trend.
I would hope that a sequel DLC pack would look something like:
1 Exhibit
1 WTE
2 Aviary
2 Fully aquatic habitat
4 Terrestrial/semi aquatic habitat
I am late to the conversation, but I think the best way to make breeding more meaningful is to add a breeding center like we have seen in past games:
I wanted to find a photo of the Breeding Center from ZT3, but this one from ZT2 will have to do. I think the best case scenario to make breeding feel more meaningful and impactful is to reduce breeding without the center. Then after placing the building maybe you could get a menu full of SSPs showing which species need the breeding program the most? Maybe the breeding center can also have a little window, so you can see incubation of eggs and other small animals?
I think another cool detail is that through the breeding center you can send animals directly to other zoos for breeding, which can be another way to make Conservation Credits without relying on the market. Maybe in this scenario you wouldn’t get as much money, as it is being sent to another zoo “in universe”. But maybe this will give other incentives? Like maybe if you breed the California Condor and ship viable animals through the breeding center you can get new statues and signs.
Also from ZT3, bring back the animal release map. Using the California Condors as an example, imagine releasing some in game and being able to track their progress in the wild. It would feel very rewarding! I also don’t have a picture so use your imagination.
I wanted to find a photo of the Breeding Center from ZT3, but this one from ZT2 will have to do. I think the best case scenario to make breeding feel more meaningful and impactful is to reduce breeding without the center. Then after placing the building maybe you could get a menu full of SSPs showing which species need the breeding program the most? Maybe the breeding center can also have a little window, so you can see incubation of eggs and other small animals?
I think another cool detail is that through the breeding center you can send animals directly to other zoos for breeding, which can be another way to make Conservation Credits without relying on the market. Maybe in this scenario you wouldn’t get as much money, as it is being sent to another zoo “in universe”. But maybe this will give other incentives? Like maybe if you breed the California Condor and ship viable animals through the breeding center you can get new statues and signs.
Also from ZT3, bring back the animal release map. Using the California Condors as an example, imagine releasing some in game and being able to track their progress in the wild. It would feel very rewarding! I also don’t have a picture so use your imagination.