Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

[-VR- Max Factor]

If it does, maybe the problem solves itself. If carriers won't have any benefits for a solo player and too cumbersome and expensive to run, then few will bother getting one.


And we'll probably have the same discussion next year about base building.

Do you mean base building punishing people that like to play in groups (i am assumung these are personal bases).

Outrageuos.

 

[Han Zulu]

Oh no - first the demands for vanity carriers, then the demands will start for vanity NPCs to make them look populated

I'm not demanding anything. Just saying that a solo player isn't the same as a solo in-game person. It doesn't break immersion or any "reality aspect" of a solo player owning a station just because he is a solo real-life human, but anyone with a little imagination can understand that in that world, a single person can own a carrier and run it, if he/she can afford to have hundreds or thousands of virtual humans in the game hired.

What I'm saying is that the argument for "real-life single human player" isn't really valid for not being able to have a carrier. But then again, if having a carrier is just a burden and impossible for a single person to own, then we won't see many single players doing it and there's no huge disaster as it's made out to be.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If it does, maybe the problem solves itself. If carriers won't have any benefits for a solo player and too cumbersome and expensive to run, then few will bother getting one.


And we'll probably have the same discussion next year about base building.

there is absolutely zero logical reason for FD to lock base building behind guild walls. Whilst i do think there could be a better way to introduce fleet carriers which are inclusive for all and not exclusive to guilds like some people - and FD it seems - wants I do accept also that the way it is looking like going, there is a practical argument for single players not having one.... .BUT there is absolutely no logical defence for forcing that on bases.

if a CMDR can afford a cutter in the ED universe there is no reason at all why they cant afford to employ the equivelent of a small building company to build a moonbase for goodness sake and expand it over time. To not allow that would be completely indefensible imo. (it would be the equivalent of letting me own an aircraft carrier (anaconda) but not letting me buy a house.

 

[Han Zulu]

Do you mean base building punishing people that like to play in groups (i am assumung these are personal bases).

Outrageuos.

We'll probably have a talk about if it's reasonable for a single player to own a base next year. The upkeep, cost, and why for a single player. And we wouldn't want some popular planets to be overwrought with bases.

 

[Han Zulu]

there is absolutely zero logical reason for FD to lock base building behind guild walls. Whilst i do think there could be a better way to introduce fleet carriers which are inclusive for all and not exclusive to guilds like some people - and FD it seems - wants. there is absolutely no logical defence for forcing that on bases.

if a CMDR can afford a cutter in the ED universe there is no reason at all why they cant afford to employ the equivelent of a small building company to build a moonbase for goodness sake and expand it over time. To not allow that would be completely indefensible imo. (it would be the equivalent of letting me own an aircraft carrier (anaconda) but not letting me buy a house.

So if a commander can afford a cutter in ED universe, or even better, can afford a carrier a couple times over, there's no reason they couldn't afford (in the virtual world) to employ a crew for the carrier.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

We'll probably have a talk about if it's reasonable for a single player to own a base next year. The upkeep, cost, and why for a single player. And we wouldn't want some popular planets to be overwrought with bases.

Surely that depends on the size. I would assume there would be upkeep costs of somekind. Also you wouldn't need to grind on end to refuel it and they probably would be a fraction of the size of one of those Fleet Carriers.

I certainly don't expect massive bases with loads of landing pads. I expect them to be small personal things.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So if a commander can afford a cutter in ED universe, or even better, can afford a carrier a couple times over, there's no reason they couldn't afford (in the virtual world) to employ a crew for the carrier.

hey if you are expecting an argument from me on that you have picked the wrong man!. (edit similey face added ) The problem is FD so far dont do npcs (outside of SLF pilot). and when i put, i think there is a more inclusive way, npcs is exactly how i would do it, as i detailed earlier - tying them to the local factions........ but that does not seem to be they way it is going.

if we accept that FD dont allow npcs to fly these ships then there is logic to it being impractical to fly a megaship alone, but that does not work imo when it comes to a base.... a building does not need npcs or other players for it to "work".

all it would need is a few tones of oxygen, some water and perhaps some minor upkeep of your solar panels and it should be good for months.

 

[Han Zulu]

Surely that depends on the size. I would assume there would be upkeep costs of somekind. Also you wouldn't need to grind on end to refuel it and they probably would be a fraction of the size of one of those Fleet Carriers.

I certainly don't expect massive bases with loads of landing pads. I expect them to be small personal things.

Probably right.

I'm not so concerned about all these issues against solo-player carriers. If the carrier doesn't have a shipyard and takes too much to upkeep and there's no benefit, very few solo-players will get one. Sure, some will, but I believe the majority of players belong to squadrons already, and out of the few who don't there won't be many who have to have this "vanity" thing.

 

[babelfisch]

Surely that depends on the size. I would assume there would be upkeep costs of somekind. Also you wouldn't need to grind on end to refuel it and they probably would be a fraction of the size of one of those Fleet Carriers.

I certainly don't expect massive bases with loads of landing pads. I expect them to be small personal things.

It would be awesome if Solo players could get small, personal ships!
Wait a second...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Probably right.

I'm not so concerned about all these issues against solo-player carriers. If the carrier doesn't have a shipyard and takes too much to upkeep and there's no benefit, very few solo-players will get one. Sure, some will, but I believe the majority of players belong to squadrons already, and out of the few who don't there won't be many who have to have this "vanity" thing.

I see it as a saftey net. Better to have it gated then to have a load of people buy them and then realise they are useless and have potentially wasted billions of credits on something they can't really use. Better to have a few people moaning on forums then loads of people having to contact support to get the sale reversed.

 

[Han Zulu]

hey if you are expecting an argument from me on that you have picked the wrong man!.

Sorry. Didn't mean to make it sound like I wanted to argue.

When I discuss, it's more of an exploration of ideas, and I can be a bit brusque. No harm intended.

The problem is FD so far dont do npcs (outside of SLF pilot). and when i put, i think there is a more inclusive way, npcs is exactly how i would do it, as i detailed earlier - tying them to the local factions........ but that does not seem to be they way it is going.

if we accept that FD dont allow npcs to fly these ships then there is logic to it being impractical to fly a megaship alone, but that does not work imo when it comes to a base.... a building does not need npcs or other players for it to "work".

True. Maybe. We'll see next year.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It would be awesome if Solo players could get small, personal ships!
Wait a second...

Even have some that lauch a small combat ship (would be good if there were different types other then combat). Hang on a sec...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I see it as a saftey net. Better to have it gated then to have a load of people buy them and then realise they are useless and have potentially wasted billions of credits on something they can't really use. Better to have a few people moaning on forums then loads of people having to contact support to get the sale reversed.

probably would not be a bad idea to put a training scenario in with the others on the front page regarding megaship upkeep...... to give players an idea of the work involved before buying one. this could be useful for guilds too..... to work out whether your guild is up to the task.

@Han Zulu btw i should have put a smiley in my post..... i didnt take it the wrong way, s'all good man.

 

[Han Zulu]

I see it as a saftey net. Better to have it gated then to have a load of people buy them and then realise they are useless and have potentially wasted billions of credits on something they can't really use. Better to have a few people moaning on forums then loads of people having to contact support to get the sale reversed.

Ok. Sure. But then maybe they could have a sell function of the carrier.

My view is that the arguments against personally owned carriers aren't very strong. Sure, there's something to them, but they're not super-strong. The argument that a single player can't have one because it takes a crew to maintain the carrier, well, maybe 10 isn't large enough then, but only squadrons with 100 members can own one, so maybe the limit should be that? Right now, we don't know what Frontier is planning for the carriers and what's required to run them. We don't know if they'll have shipyards or not. So it's all very speculative. If carriers are easy to run because you have virtual NPCs taking care of everything, then it won't be a chore for a single player. The solution is easy, but we don't know which way FDev is going with that.

The only argument I think is somewhat valid is the overcrowding of persistent carriers in a system. But then again, it could become a problem even with the 10-member gate considering there are thousands of squadrons.

 

[zimms]

Where is the upkeep coming from all of a sudden? Nothing in the game has upkeep, you don't even have to pay parking tickets for having entire fleets docked at several stations.

I see it as a saftey net. Better to have it gated then to have a load of people buy them and then realise they are useless and have potentially wasted billions of credits on something they can't really use. Better to have a few people moaning on forums then loads of people having to contact support to get the sale reversed.

Doesn't get more patronizing than that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Ok. Sure. But then maybe they could have a sell function of the carrier.

My view is that the arguments against personally owned carriers aren't very strong. Sure, there's something to them, but they're not super-strong. The argument that a single player can't have one because it takes a crew to maintain the carrier, well, maybe 10 isn't large enough then, but only squadrons with 100 members can own one, so maybe the limit should be that? Right now, we don't know what Frontier is planning for the carriers and what's required to run them. We don't know if they'll have shipyards or not. So it's all very speculative. If carriers are easy to run because you have virtual NPCs taking care of everything, then it won't be a chore for a single player. The solution is easy, but we don't know which way FDev is going with that.

The only argument I think is somewhat valid is the overcrowding of persistent carriers in a system. But then again, it could become a problem even with the 10-member gate considering there are thousands of squadrons.

There are many other arguments against. But I am not against a small personal carrier, something that holds 2-3 ships. But I don't think that is what is coming.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Doesn't get more patronizing than that.

Don't you read the forums?

 

[Han Zulu]

@Han Zulu btw i should have put a smiley in my post..... i didnt take it the wrong way, s'all good man.

No worries. No feelings harmed.

I know you're a solo/single player and want a carrier, and I want you to have one. I'm on your side there. Personally, we'll get a carrier for our squadron, gate or no gate. But I don't think single-player owned carriers is a huge issue.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Ok. Sure. But then maybe they could have a sell function of the carrier.

My view is that the arguments against personally owned carriers aren't very strong. Sure, there's something to them, but they're not super-strong. The argument that a single player can't have one because it takes a crew to maintain the carrier, well, maybe 10 isn't large enough then, but only squadrons with 100 members can own one, so maybe the limit should be that? Right now, we don't know what Frontier is planning for the carriers and what's required to run them. We don't know if they'll have shipyards or not. So it's all very speculative. If carriers are easy to run because you have virtual NPCs taking care of everything, then it won't be a chore for a single player. The solution is easy, but we don't know which way FDev is going with that.

The only argument I think is somewhat valid is the overcrowding of persistent carriers in a system. But then again, it could become a problem even with the 10-member gate considering there are thousands of squadrons.

to be honest if the concern is "exclusivity" OR if it is crowding in a persistent game OR even if it is just down to plausibility of numbers needed to fly a ship.... the minimum number to be able to feasibly expect to be able to fly a ship is imo likely to be closer to 100 than it is to 10.

if it is 10 then tbh the arguments against 10 are similar to the arguments against 1 having them.

remember an anaconda is is the size of an aircraft carrier so we are looking at a ship 10-20 times the size of that - maybe more - looking at that video....... which makes arguments against 1 player owning one the same as 10 players owning one.

 

[Han Zulu]

There are many other arguments against. But I am not against a small personal carrier, something that holds 2-3 ships. But I don't think that is what is coming.

Besides, I probably rather have a planet base than a carrier for personal use. Don't see carriers add much of features or use for a single player, that's why I don't think it's going to a huge issue even if single-players can buy them. Oh, well, we'll see.

(Sometimes I feel it's more exciting to participate in a discussion on the forum than playing... )