Proposal: alternative to outright removal of ADS instascan & system map minigame for explorers

[Mohrgan]

Yes, you would think that would be the best move but then heat-sinks do not do this and require a material you cannot obtain outside of occupied systems, so, do we consider history, or ignore it because it's not convenient?

Seriously, I hope Frontier bloody nail this like nothing before. Just make it the best damned thing ever. But I'd be a bit naive, to ignore history and presume they won't do, entirely what they have done on more than one occasion before. Again; agree, actually, with a lot presented by a number of people here.

But I just don't and won't take anything Frontier does at face value, because I'd be a bit of a idiot to keep doing that given decisions past.

The devil is, as they say, in the details, roll on Beta. I am still jazzed for that, even if I sound a little cynical. o7

I don't see constraints like we see with Heat Sinks as a negative. All professions have a lifeline that keeps them tethered to civilization. Ammo, Limpets, Cargo, ect. We will just have to learn how to manage our inventories to be the most efficient. I don;t have a problem with that, but if you relate Probes to Ammo, there is a good chance the mats will be common ones. Anyway, details like that are what we should be discussing, rather than suggesting a rework to a feature nearing the Beta phase.

 

[Mohrgan]

It's about 2000 jumps between Beagle Point and me with the ship I plan on taking out there. That little stuff adds up real quick, unfortunately.

So, we are reduced to Cr./Hr. here? Being more involved with the activity of exploring, should outweigh some extra effort.

 

[WR3ND]

So, we are reduced to Cr./Hr. here? Being more involved with the activity of exploring, should outweigh some extra effort.

No, we aren't. Not sure where you got that idea from. [weird]

I'm talking more about exploration per time. Only so much time in the day and expeditions don't wait for me at my convenience. I'd rather be flying around checking out cool systems and worlds than playing on the mini maps in general. Might be a nice option for something to do now and then though, just not as par for the course, as I might prefer.

 

[Mohrgan]

No, we aren't. Not sure where you got that idea from. [weird]

I'm talking more about exploration per time. Only so much time in the day and expeditions don't wait for me at my convenience.

Don't get defensive. I was responding to the "That little stuff adds up real quick, unfortunately." Comment. I took it to mean, the added time would eat into your profits. What would that 'little stuff' add up to anyway?

Presumably, those other players with the expedition will have to do exactly the same thing as you. Even Stevens, as it were.

 

[WR3ND]

Don't get defensive. I was responding to the "That little stuff adds up real quick, unfortunately." Comment. I took it to mean, the added time would eat into your profits. What would that 'little stuff' add up to anyway?

Realistically, probably at least an additional 5 hours, going one way as the crow flies, as it were, so most likely a fair bit longer than that even. That's assuming I crack the code or whatever and unlock everything in 10 seconds per system.

 

[baqar79]

I think the real content is all in the new DSS re-purposing, and hopefully some explorer specific USS's, planetary POI's or space phenomena; that is where I hope most of the interesting exploration mechanic changes will be.

The EM/gravitational anomaly searching isn't all that bad, and should make things faster when I actively want to explore the system. But as said many times by other explorers; if I would of skipped the system because it didn't have the features I was looking for in the first place, how does being forced to explore the same system in detail, to come to the same conclusion make this better?

Currently I'm out in the eastern edge of the Galaxy. Over 1500 jumps and 70,000ly's (according to EDDiscoveries "last docked" time), and I've found only a few systems interesting enough to me to explore fully (It feels like less than 10 systems, but since the log says I've landed on 14 planets, perhaps it is closer to 15/20).

Those systems with characteristics I'm looking for are rare, and completely removing the system map information I used to get will make finding these almost impossible, without exponentially increasing my time investment in the new exploration process. The compromise the OP suggested is pretty reasonable; you still have to locate objects by using the new ADS scanner and looking at gravitational anomalies.

In addition, I initially thought the screenshot provided for the chapter 4 reveal was an overhead view, but I think it could be a First person view from the scanner (I'm still not sure but perhaps I was the only one that thought it was an over head view ). In this way distance information is virtually useless anyway, since multiple gravitational anomalies that appear to be in the same spot could actually be objects in a much further orbit being occluded by a closer object. The scanner distance indicator on the right may just be changing the angular scanning range, rather than distance.

 

[Mohrgan]

Realistically, probably at least an additional 5 hours, going one way as the crow flies, as it were, so most likely a fair bit longer than that even. That's assuming I crack the code or whatever and unlock everything in 10 seconds per system.

If you are playing the game, what matters the extra time? Taking more time, is worth more interesting and engaging activities. The time spent would be in the doing. I suggest that your issue is exactly Cr./Hr., but with a special emphasis on the Hr. part.

 

[kofeyh]

Anyway, details like that are what we should be discussing, rather than suggesting a rework to a feature nearing the Beta phase.

My guy (or gal) this entire threads title is a proposed "alternative" to the upcoming changes; which is exactly suggesting a rework of a feature nearing the beta phase. That's it's entire purpose. I mean I know people like to argue semantics but sheesh, ok - you win.

Limiting synthesis will limit exploration; no probes? No probe use. It's one thing for a limpet or heat sink that might be used in rare exception; but the clear intent is probes could be used often. Entirely different use case. So yes, ideally Frontier will use broadly available materials and not pick the same damned hill as last time to die on. Anyway. Amusing.

Roll on beta. People will always have lots of ideas but many of them are not what the developer is doing, or interested in doing and so we'll see what Frontier come up with.

I hope I see a lot of the same faces here, in the Beta, though. Some good people with good ideas (even if I don't agree with all of them) and the developer will surely benefit from that feedback. Fly safe, commanders.

 

[WR3ND]

If you are playing the game, what matters the extra time? Taking more time, is worth more interesting and engaging activities. The time spent would be in the doing. I suggest that your issue is exactly Cr./Hr., but with a special emphasis on the Hr. part.

In reality though, I probably just won't bother with it a fair amount of the way and miss out on some cool looking systems because of it. Doing the same code cracking 2000 times in a row in addition to 2000 jumps and fuel scoops in a row just to take a peek at a nice looking system here or there probably isn't going to go over too well.

Credits again? I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I could make no credits the entire trip. Wouldn't really bother me.

 

[kofeyh]

I think the real content is all in the new DSS re-purposing, and hopefully some explorer specific USS's, planetary POI's or space phenomena; that is where I hope most of the interesting exploration mechanic changes will be.

The mini game doesn't do much for me, as advertised. It could be incredible. Beta will certainly make that clear. But yes, this is really the thing I wanted to see. I care a little less about how I interact with a thing, over it being there at all to interact with. If we have this new awesome system, but there is nothing to be found, that'd be an incredible waste of what could be an amazing thing.

Agree.

 

[gooddoc]

Can some one explain to me how pointing at a system body and waiting for 10 20 or whatever seconds is gameplay? It's sitting and waiting like so many other "features" of this game. If skill is not involved in the process, I say dump the ridiculous timers.

If the timers are necessary as micro loading screens where stats are procgen or rng'd then that's some slow-donkey processing to pull values out of a table.

Thing is, nothing has been mentioned by the Devs to indicate that the 'new' system still has this 10-20 seconds wait before the information is received or if it's instant!

 

[kofeyh]

In reality though, I probably just won't bother with it a fair amount of the way and miss out on some cool looking systems because of it.

It's surprising how fast the first iteration of Guardian blueprints was forgotten; which was literally crack an alien safe. Then do that 24+ more times. It got very old, very quick. There is every chance frontier has learned from that, as not. This is why Beta matters to me. I want them to have learned. I really, really do.

If they have, then this thing has a good chance of being a solid update.

 

[Enderby]

I like the sound of the planet mapping - esp as I hope it will reveal more interesting things to find.

But, on reflection, removing the reveal-all element of the ADS doesn’t sound great. I don’t think that removing something that has been there for years is a good way to ‘add’ to exploration ‘gameplay’.

 

[Tifu]

Wouldn't be surprised if the nature of exploration and which people do this will drastically change after the changes come into place. It's going to require a degree and type of patience and meticulousness which not all commanders have. IMHO that's a good thing if exploration is going to be as in depth and unique as the other professions.

 

[babelfisch]

I like the sound of the planet mapping - esp as I hope it will reveal more interesting things to find.

But, on reflection, removing the reveal-all element of the ADS doesn’t sound great. I don’t think that removing something that has been there for years is a good way to ‘add’ to exploration ‘gameplay’.

What they are going to replace wasn't 'gameplay' in the first place, which also happens to be the reason they replace it. Replacing stupid stuff is very much a good way to add to exploration gameplay, especially if it didn't exist before. That said, I understand the issues some people have with the new design and it would be great if a compromise could be found. But I believe keeping the current instant honk mechanic is not an option.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

I like the sound of the planet mapping - esp as I hope it will reveal more interesting things to find.

But, on reflection, removing the reveal-all element of the ADS doesn’t sound great. I don’t think that removing something that has been there for years is a good way to ‘add’ to exploration ‘gameplay’.

The current ADS technique is just spoiling the complete exploration activity and what remains to you is just the boring part of the job: fly a straight line to a planet and wait for the scanner to complete the scan (just a loading time).

I fully agree to remove it.

Take a Water World for example:
- with the first honk you see it in the system map: blu planet (so obvious!)
- you can listen to his sound: you hear crashing waves (so obvious!)
- you target it and you see its unique holographic representation (so obvious!)

Still your computer can't tell you it's a water world until you get there and you wait for the scanner to complete the scan (just a loading time).

I'm completely fine with the new concept.

 

[babelfisch]

The current ADS technique is just spoiling the complete exploration activity and what remains to you is just the boring part of the job: fly a straight line to a planet and wait for the scanner to complete the scan (just a loading time).

I fully agree to remove it.

Take a Water World for example:
- with the first honk you see it in the system map: blu planet (so obvious!)
- you can listen to his sound: you hear crashing waves (so obvious!)
- you target it and you see its unique holographic representation (so obvious!)

Still your computer can't tell you it's a water world until you get there and you wait for the scanner to complete the scan (just a loading time).

I'm completely fine with the new concept.

But that's so much better than playing Monkey Island!!!

/s

 

[Nagual]

I would have thought that the 'graph' of electromagnetic whatever would give strong hints as to both the size on composition of planetary bodies, but it doesn't look like it going by the pics. Something like the width indicating the size of the body and the height of it showing I guess metal content, so metallic ones would spike quite highly, and rocky / ice ones less so. Things like that.

 

[babelfisch]

I would have thought that the 'graph' of electromagnetic whatever would give strong hints as to both the size on composition of planetary bodies, but it doesn't look like it going by the pics. Something like the width indicating the size of the body and the height of it showing I guess metal content, so metallic ones would spike quite highly, and rocky / ice ones less so. Things like that.

IIRC they said this is how it works.

"The system scan now returns an aggregated display of how energetic the electromagnetic emissions are in the system. Signals are sorted on a low to high scale by their apparent energy. For example, emissions from rocky clusters will appear at the lower end of the scale, hot gas giants at the upper range. This information requires some interpretation as signals can overlap."

 

[Nagual]

Yeah, it's just that the example perhaps wasn't the best to show off the differences. Hopefully it will be easier to spot once it goes live.