PVP is not Griefing
- Thread starter darshu
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This is exactly as I prophesised at least a few months ago.
I said that players would "pervert" the system security nomination and go wherever there are players that would rather be safe from griefing.
The thing now is that we apparently have a group of players on a killing spree in Lave. The "reason" is simply a front - a made up justification that no player actually believes in - pure and simply to PvP players who don't want that. Stay in "safe" systems, they said. In safe systems with high security, you will be free from PvP interdictions, pirates and plain murdereing low life scumbags. And lo, it came to pass that this is utter Baloney.
The situation at Lave is plain wrong. It would be OK if the system security began clearing PvP numpties - erm, I mean, the so called blockade - but that appears far from likely. Yet they are getting away with this perversion - this exploit - and it IS an exploit, due to some hogwash about a "blockage". Pure tripe I tell you.
Moreover, if any one of those exploiters is getting regenerated in the vicinity of Lave, which, let's face it, is supposed to be a High Security Federation system, then this just adds to the plain wrongness of the whole debacle - how can they claim to be in support of the Empire if they get their ship regenerated at a Fed system. Go figure...
Bravo - well done for hitting the nail squarely on the head.
If someone calls you a "bully" to your face, then you are, in fact, a bully. Fact.
Same with the term griefing. If someone you have affected in a negative way calls you a griefer, then simply stating some "other" definition of the term griefer does not deflect from the actual truth that you are, in fact, a griefer.
Sadly, some people do not possess the emotional intelligence to understand this basic truth and will wade blithely through other people's recreational pastime creating a negative experience for them just in order to feel like they are in some way superior.
A pirate player was honest enough recently to admit on here that "of course they pick on weaker opponents" - which is actually borderline griefing to start with. Long gone are the days when the pirate fraternity claimed that they wanted to interact with players "because they are more challenging". I smelled a big pile of something quite smelly the first time I read that. Turns out I was right.
i'd love to cooperate with you to accomplish something in ED... but ED has nothing for us to cooperate on. no content, no wings, no raids, hell, even the capital ship event doesn't encourage cooperation - it encourages me to blow you up so you stop hindering my progress.
when they implement something for us to cooperate together on, i'll be down. trust me, i'd love that.
but they haven't yet.
so, until then, i'm just going to kill you instead. hope you got enough for insurance!
cheers mate, and fly safe...
o7
And with that username you actually expect me to believe the bit in bold you wrote, TeeHee, give us some credit why don't you
(<- it's ok, like you I used a smiley wink)So explain to me about this blockade in Lave, please? Explain to me how a player cannot get griefed by this?
Your bold bit is definitely *not* a statement of fact. (You even proved as much yourself, when you typed your next line)
Oh how this makes me roll about laughing but at the same time winds me up quite bad.
Someone claimed that the exploiters (my own use of the word) in Lave could just respawn with a new ship and *a new commander name*. Please tell everyone how to avoid this exploiter who is exploiting the
avoid player system by changing their name?
There is another more widely accepted way to be a griefer in Elite:
1. Force someone into a negative experience against their will or their intentions.
Yes - someone who goes to a High Security System - because it is High Security - because they want to avoid PvP - only for them to be shot up instead is definitely a way to cause grief for any player in this game...
Cheerz
Mark H
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Trader's response:
"Bye"
<< pulls network cable >>
^ I guess that means you don't have their consent.
Bwwwhahaha
So I pvpler calling the guys who call him griefers griefers to, because instead of giving him the entertaining pvp experience he is seeking they give him just midly entertaining tears that he was not looing for? Is that not the dream of carebears? Griefers griefing griefers? I bet they never imagined they would be the griefers. Fact.
If someone does not want to experience negative player interactions than he should play in solo mode. That is indeed fine.
What I totally agree on is that NPCs are a bad joke. They need heavy buffs. They need to use shield cells, they need to get proper fittings and they need to grow some teeth. They actually might need a better AI and better aiming or show up more often in numbers to outnumber players. AI opponents are currently a freaking joke and that way naturally an security reaction becomes a joke in itself. How cares about his bounty if NPCs will never collect it?
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Do you *really* have to ask that out loud?
Is it really so, so difficult to understand?
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^ In English, please.
I can't speak for anyone else but I've been looking forward to an open world space sim for quite a while. I was looking at EVE and chose *not* to play it due to the PVP centric, general trollishness and scamming nature of the game (all supported by the developer CCP). For a long time, EVE was all there was and now there is ED too.... I'd rather Elite didn't copy the things from EVE that made me not want to play it to be honest.
Not do contradict the rest of you post, PVP need some rebalancing in Elite, I truly agree.
When I like the mechanics of PVP, i.e. easy to get into and easy to get out of with not much loss, I really enjoy it and make it my main focus. In Elite, not so much as the game is rigged at the moment. I don't want to kill traders with my combat ship, it just causes pain and suffering with no sense of achievement. Neither would I like to take the traders place and lose millions with no chance of fighting back.
I agree with 100% . This is game and that is PvP. "Griefers"....who invented this word at all.
attacking a player, for no reason at all, except that 'he is there' (or was... depends on how successful that was) is griefing - end of line.
there is nothing to discuss about
Another 100% correct and clinical observation.
I totally disagree and the clue is in the abbreviation "PvP".
The - v - in PvP stands for *versus*. Meaning to put yourself *against* someone. A competitive or combative experience.
Many, if not most players - particularly the old Elite '84 vanguard, I'd imagine - would strongly like to see a cooperative game. Call it PwP (Player with Player), or Pco-op, or anything you like...
Just because players want to see other players in-game, this does not make Elite PvP. The clue is in the abbreviation...
Cheerz
Mark H
a troll, who trolls on the forum for no reason at all except that 'he is there' is trolling.
let's say i just want to log on, start the game and shoot something. that something happens to be a player ship. what's to say here...eject cargo and hope for the best. there is also hello kitty online if u like ?
honestly sometimes i don't really have time to check if i'm playing with a live person on NPC because i would have to check comms instead of looking ahead
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So FD has released the umpteenth newletter highlighting an interesting and fun PvP experience, this one blatantly in the territory people are calling "griefing", using it as an example of all of the great adventures there are to be had in the galaxy.
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Yet the whining continues, and people still fervently believe that it is not intended behavior.
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Yet the whining continues, and people still fervently believe that it is not intended behavior.
If you attack another player, which is allowed within the mechanics of the game, it becomes "Player Versus Player". Whether they then choose to fire back or just explode and then whine on the forum about it is irrelevant.
Also, I have to completely disagree with Ahri. The game allows for "non-consensual PvP" and through various mechanics actually encourages it, if we use your definition of "griefing" that means the game has been designed to support it and I'm pretty sure that was not the intention.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Have you not noticed that players show up on the scanner as hollow shapes and NPCs as solid shapes?
nop, i just shoot stuff TBH.
but once i noticed it was a player, because he was burning for 4 KM in a straight line just to collide with a huge asteroid, lol'd
still i prefer the pirate style. if i trap a hauler with 100 gold, i will ask him to eject 8 gold because my cargohold can't take more, and then let him go.
but arguments like this make me want to just blow the thing up and target practice with canisters, go figure.
we'll see if open play was made to be developed, or it's just something made to attract people to the game. because no matter how bad it may look because of griefers, etc., people will somehow always prefer to play with others.
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What's the problem?
I completely fail to see where the problem is. If I do not want to be attacked, I play solo, if I don't mind, I play open. Where's the science in that? Generally, as I see it, it doesn't make any sense for a trader to play Open - as any PvP enecounter can't end well for him - most traders aren't even armed to maximize their jump ranges.
If I like the thrills or I want to hunt people down myself, I play Open - that's why it's there. What's the damn issue here?
I completely fail to see where the problem is. If I do not want to be attacked, I play solo, if I don't mind, I play open. Where's the science in that? Generally, as I see it, it doesn't make any sense for a trader to play Open - as any PvP enecounter can't end well for him - most traders aren't even armed to maximize their jump ranges.
If I like the thrills or I want to hunt people down myself, I play Open - that's why it's there. What's the damn issue here?
God, some people really have no idea...
Get a clue.
PvP means Players Versus Players (you got this part right), where PvE means Players Versus Enviroment (npcs)
So yes, online is PVP, but that doesn't mean it is consensual or not, it just means it allows players to kill players and not only npcs.
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This is the problem, Elite dangerous is designed to make a game out of victimisation. This is a poor design choice at best.
Competitive balanced PvP would be a much healthier development route.
It's actually incredibly boring and doesn't have anywhere near the depth or dynamism as sandbox PvP.
Pretty much sums up me and this thread
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