PvP (Open) commanders not welcome on this forum?...

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babelfisch

babelfisch
Goose4291 said:
Fixed that for you. Proper pirates won't kill their compliant prey, otherwise they're probably going to be less agreeable to your demands the next time.

It also has to do with the fact that player piracy (in relatice terms) is profitable, whereas NPC most certainly isn't due to their obsession with hauling low value goods.
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This is true, but it's not what people are complaining about. I have never seen a thread saying:
"This pirate asked me for 30% of my cargo and wished me a nice day, it's totally unacceptable that these gentlemen are not punished for their civil behaviour and I am going to play solo because if it."
It's more like "just got blown up for no reason", "I travelled all the way to Colonia and got killed", "I lost 400t of cargo (and the killing CMDR can't even pick it up) and a 15 million rebuy", "visiting alien ruins or CGs is impossible without getting killed". And the usual replies are "that's fair play", "open is PvP mode", "don't play open idiot/carebear/crap tier player".

I think it's reasonable that some people have a problem with this type of asymmetric and totally out of game PvP. It's just destroying for the lols, there isn't even RP to it.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Goose4291
babelfisch said:
This is true, but it's not what people are complaining about. I have never seen a thread saying:
"This pirate asked me for 30% of my cargo and wished me a nice day, it's totally unacceptable that these gentlemen are not punished for their civil behaviour and I am going to play solo because if it."
It's more like "just got blown up for no reason", "I travelled all the way to Colonia and got killed", "I lost 400t of cargo (and the killing CMDR can't even pick it up) and a 15 million rebuy", "visiting alien ruins or CGs is impossible without getting killed". And the usual replies are "that's fair play", "open is PvP mode", "don't play open idiot/carebear/crap tier player".

I think it's reasonable that some people have a problem with this type of asymmetric and totally out of game PvP. It's just destroying for the lols, there isn't even RP to it.
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You need to go back to the days of the first release (when we got out of the pill) to see those sort of threads, usually started because the victim had tried to run.

As a few people have said prior, pirates were met with the same level of vitriol that the current pvp community (or in my case, those that accept that in a game with guns bolted onto the front of our ships, players are going to want to use them against players) suffer on this forum, even when offering advice beyond 'go to a solo or private group and mine pvp salt'
 

BigF

BigF
I think the main problem is the vast minority have spoiled it for the majority. I played exclusively in open all last week, said hello to every player I encountered and got no replies. I think I totalled 20+ hours of game time. I saw well over 30 players in that time.

Yesterday I had a player interdict me while arriving at an engineers site. I had no cargo. He didn't speak/type or anything just rammed my ship with his Anaconda ( I was stationary) then shot me up reducing my shields to 0 and the hull down to just about flying then just left, I got precisely no shots off. I tracked him on the scanner and saw his ship head directly to another player, saw the tell tail interdiction signs and then later the same again, each time the other ship reappeared on the scanner.

So I think it was quite safe to say (after scanning said ships and seeing hull integrity) that this was his or hers bag.

I've been interdicted by players a far few times but usually it goes all role play and we have a chat exchange cargo or laser fire and go our separate ways, one or both....

One time I was interdicted and not doing so well against the other player, and a second ship arrived I thought my goose was cooked until he opened up on the other guy. Killed him and just said "on your cmdr" and left.

The only reason I survived as long as I did was down to 5A rated shields and A rated boosters.

What I'm trying to say is not all open PVP players are bad just the ones who are spoil it for the others both PVP and PVE alike.

I think this is precisely why there are game modes like Möbius. I doubt you'd see one just for player PVP ganking, they'd all run out of money too quickly.
 
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Fracktal

Fracktal
Goose4291 said:
You need to go back to the days of the first release (when we got out of the pill) to see those sort of threads, usually started because the victim had tried to run.

As a few people have said prior, pirates were met with the same level of vitriol that the current pvp community (or in my case, those that accept that in a game with guns bolted onto the front of our ships, players are going to want to use them against players) suffer on this forum, even when offering advice beyond 'go to a solo or private group and mine pvp salt'
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It's a natural selection process:

- First phase, the people against any form of negative interaction complain and leave definitely/to Solo/to PG.
- Second phase (now), the people against purposeless/mindless killing, systematically at any in-game event, complain and leave definitely/to Solo/to PG.
- Third phase, the people who are ok with the current level of aggression, due to probability being somehow low (apart from in-game event/aggregation Location), meet nobody or only meet aggressive players (so wonder why play open then) will complain and leave definitely/to Solo/to PG.

Now imagine being a new player starting in an environment more and more hostile with more and more entry barriers (Ships, Engineers...).

EDIT: That reminds me of David Braben Kickstarter video mentioning that PvP will be rare and meaningful. Problem is that this vision exists only within the part (99.9999% within the galaxy) of OPEN which feels like playing in Solo.
 
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babelfisch

babelfisch
Goose4291 said:
You need to go back to the days of the first release (when we got out of the pill) to see those sort of threads, usually started because the victim had tried to run.

As a few people have said prior, pirates were met with the same level of vitriol that the current pvp community (or in my case, those that accept that in a game with guns bolted onto the front of our ships, players are going to want to use them against players) suffer on this forum, even when offering advice beyond 'go to a solo or private group and mine pvp salt'
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First, that's not how I remember it. Threads in the early days were usually like "Try to pirate me, good luck while I am flying in solo."

Second, if you are correct than it's a good thing that the forum community changed, because proper piracy is a widely accepted and respected ingame activity nowadays.

PS
To clarify:
"Pirates are met with vitriol, something is wrong with the community"
*community changes the behaviour towards piracy*
"There is something wrong with this community regarding PvP"

Doesn't make much sense if you ask me.
 
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Sole Hunter

Banned
S
xondk said:
Your post is kinda confusing in my book, to me it seems like you are saying.

"I am going to go into your house, and not follow any of the rules in your house on how to treat people, and I'm also going to make use of 'my' right to say exactly what I want and think about how you do things that I do not agree with."
or maybe a better analogy is a concert, paying to enter, but deciding to not follow their rules, and treat people however you want, say what you want.

So yeah, while I know this is not the way many online think.
By default, you may not 'owe' anyone respect, but you can act respectful, show respect, and generally respect is shown in return. Show disrespect and funny enough, disrespect is showed in return. This is very very normal behaviour, and it is also part of respect is earned line as you say it, I mean what reason do people, or the devs or forum mods have to respect you, when you if you don't follow the rules set on forum and their other places?
They don't owe you respect either simply because you purchased their product, you purchased their product because you wanted the product, it doesn't mean they owe you anything in return. They should work to create the product they want to create, they even show respect by talking to the community, but they do not need to, like so so so so many gaming companies have shown.

As for Frontier never delivering, on the 'blaze your own path' that seems to be because you like many think that it means you can do 'everything', when rather it means that you can do whatever the game allows you to do in multiple directions, there is no set corridor or such you need to follow, if you change your mind, you change your mind and do something else, but it doesn't mean you can do stuff the game isn't designed for, again a sign of other games misleading people. Add that Elite was never announced as a PvP game, at best it indicated you can attack other players, but that is about it, there was never any indication that it was the goal of the game or a focused feature, instead it is just part of what you 'can' do..
And it really makes it look like you misunderstood something and instead of adapting from that, finding something in the game you can enjoy, you want to throw blame?
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No, I'm saying respect work both way and if you don't respect your community don't expect them to respect you in return. Respect is earned, period.

Also some of the context in the first paragraph may be confusing for some players here. I was talking about one of their community manager who I shall not name was disrespecting members of the CODE before a livestream. I just think it's funny to see a dev post on the forums and try to educate us on "respect & rules" when their own moderators & devs don't abide and/or break these very own rules.

I just think it's an amusing coincidance considering we have 52 pages of bashing on PVP players.
 
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babelfisch

babelfisch
Sole Hunter said:
No, I'm saying respect work both way and if you don't respect your community don't expect them to respect you in return. Respect is earned, period.

Also some of the context in the first paragraph may be confusing for some players here. I was talking about one of their community manager who I shall not name disrespecting members of the CODE before a livestream. I just think it's funny to see a dev post on the forums and try to educate us on "respect & rules" when even their own moderators & devs don't abide and/or break these very own rules.

I just think it's an amusing coincidance considering we have 52 pages of bashing on PVP players.
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Looks like you didn't read any of these 52 pages.
 

Windscreen Smudge

W
babelfisch said:
First, that's not how I remember it. Threads in the early days were usually like "Try to pirate my, good luck while I am flying in solo."

Second, if you are correct than it's a good thing that the forum community changed, because proper piracy is a widely accepted and respected ingame activity nowadays.

PS
To clarify:
"Pirates are met with vitriol, something is wrong with the community"
*community changes the behaviour towards piracy*
"There is something wrong with this community regarding PvP"

Doesn't make much sense if you ask me.
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Actually I'm pretty sure that most people just call pirates gankers now, and leave out the part where cargo was demanded and they tried to run.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Sole Hunter said:
No, I'm saying respect work both way and if you don't respect your community don't expect them to respect you in return. Respect is earned, period.

Also some of the context in the first paragraph may be confusing for some players here. I was talking about one of their community manager disrespecting members of the CODE before a livestream. I just think it's funny to see a dev post on the forums and try to educate us on "respect & rules" when even their own moderators & devs don't abide and/or break these very own rules.

I just think it's amusing.
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Well certainly I think we all agree that mutual respect creates a more positive environment than derision, condescension & baiting, that's a given.

Some of what you describe is possibly down to either an intended joke that backfired, or a sense of humour failure. Try not to take offence on behalf of others, they may shrug off or find funny what, if it were directed at you, might be offensive.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Windscreen Smudge said:
Actually I'm pretty sure that most people just call pirates gankers now, and leave out the part where cargo was demanded and they tried to run.
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I am pretty sure that you are mistaken.

PS And even if you are right (I doubt it), what did the pirate gain by destroying the trader except from pushing him to solo? Why not use hatchbreakers?
 
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xondk

X
Goose4291 said:
Because that's not the topic of the thread.
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Actually often seems because some people want to derail the thread so thoroughly enough that the actual subject of a thread isn't discussed anymore, and the thread that might be trying to solve and bring a problem to light, ends up not doing so, because apparently some do not want those things solved?
 

Riverside

Riverside
Windscreen Smudge said:
Actually I'm pretty sure that most people just call pirates gankers now, and leave out the part where cargo was demanded and they tried to run.
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I'd rather the description Ganker than the insult Griefer. To gank is simply to apply overkill to a situation. I would say that pirating a PvE loadout with a Cutter, FDL & third ship would fit the description of a Gank regardless of the true motivation (to pirate or to mine salt).
 
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Windscreen Smudge

W
babelfisch said:
I am pretty sure that you are mistaken.

PS And even if you are right (I doubt it), what did the pirate gain by destroying the trader except from pushing him to solo? Why not use hatchbreakers?
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By people who regularly frequent the forums? Yeah, pirates get recognition.

I suggest reading a bit into those "I quit because gankers" posts though.

The entire time you've got the trader under fire, they've got the option to surrender, stop and dump some cargo. Not every ship used for Piracy can fit hatchbreakers.
 
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