I started playing after engineers, and when I saw the effect engineering could have, at least 70% boost instead of the max 30% I was expecting, well I was flabbergasted. I can’t see them doing any retroactive changes, so I hope that the all-encompassing approach doesn’t make the game implode. By the way, I think they have confirmed pvp on foot in odyssey, so it will be interesting to see how that meshes with in ship pvp. If they manage to instance ships, srvs and players on foot al togetherusing the same hybrid p2p/server approach as now it will be quite something (if it works)
Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand
- Thread starter Danquememe
- Start date
FD has little clue what makes PvP fun. They hadn't even grasped the importance of balance before releasing engineers. Or maybe they did - after all they wrongly characterised engineers as "mild updates" while knowing it was going to be outright insane power creep.
They lost a lot of credibility there. They can now toot all they want - I'd always reserve judgement until I see the real picture.
Ah! So you're a JPG man! I knew it!
I'm a new player, and the game actually seems pretty well-balanced to me. The fact you have an entire mode where you can still chat to other players but never get a nasty surprise from them is about as good a solution as you can ask for. Having all the cargo destroyed along with the ship means that genuine piracy (via hatch breakers or jettisons) is not only possible, but incentivised over mindless killing. And that's all despite the truth that you have decent opportunity to avoid PvP combat, via interdiction, high-waking, silent-running, etc.
The only two problems I personally have are:
1: The quality of the 'gankers'. In my short experience with the game other (human) players have never tried to steal my cargo, create an interesting interaction, have a genuine fight, or do anything more than try to make me die as quickly as possible. I've been shot over engineer ports by people hovering less than 10k from the ground (the equivalent of CoD 'campers'), been attacked in my shieldless, cargo-less, DBX when arriving in Colonia (presumably an attempt to destroy my exploration data?), rammed when trying to land in a starport, and when I have fought back, they've disappeared or called in friends. NPCs will ask me to jettison cargo, or chase me across systems if I have valuable stuff, and have more reason to do what they do than other players I've met, ironically making them feel more 'human' than the gankers.
2. The PvP needs a bit more variety beyond FA off dogfighting in blank space. Escort missions, fighting around the architecture of stations, or on planetary surfaces, chase missions through asteroids, defense missions, capture the 'flag' stuff, missions that require you to repair ships while at the same time fighting off others, smugglers vs police, 'first to deliver something' missions to get people fighting in cargo ships... I don't know, but something more than random interdiction and repetitive jousts or sticking behind a less manoeuvrable ship. Because the combat is so simplistic that it will (and has) often boil down to ship quality rather than pilot skill. Bring a little of that CQC complexity to the main game PvP. Maybe this is in the game, but I've yet to see it.
As I said, though, I think solo mode solves so many of the problems discussed in this thread, and I think it's pretty great.
The only two problems I personally have are:
1: The quality of the 'gankers'. In my short experience with the game other (human) players have never tried to steal my cargo, create an interesting interaction, have a genuine fight, or do anything more than try to make me die as quickly as possible. I've been shot over engineer ports by people hovering less than 10k from the ground (the equivalent of CoD 'campers'), been attacked in my shieldless, cargo-less, DBX when arriving in Colonia (presumably an attempt to destroy my exploration data?), rammed when trying to land in a starport, and when I have fought back, they've disappeared or called in friends. NPCs will ask me to jettison cargo, or chase me across systems if I have valuable stuff, and have more reason to do what they do than other players I've met, ironically making them feel more 'human' than the gankers.
2. The PvP needs a bit more variety beyond FA off dogfighting in blank space. Escort missions, fighting around the architecture of stations, or on planetary surfaces, chase missions through asteroids, defense missions, capture the 'flag' stuff, missions that require you to repair ships while at the same time fighting off others, smugglers vs police, 'first to deliver something' missions to get people fighting in cargo ships... I don't know, but something more than random interdiction and repetitive jousts or sticking behind a less manoeuvrable ship. Because the combat is so simplistic that it will (and has) often boil down to ship quality rather than pilot skill. Bring a little of that CQC complexity to the main game PvP. Maybe this is in the game, but I've yet to see it.
As I said, though, I think solo mode solves so many of the problems discussed in this thread, and I think it's pretty great.
Thank you for the reply. How often do you have these types of encounters?
Is it time to post the video? I think it's time to post the video
Sounds like they're trying to take everything "traditional" about the Elite experience and transpose it to the on-foot experience.
SRVs already melt quickly to ships, and I'd assume a human on foot even moreso.
Oh, and the trailers showed that not only can you walk around, you can crouch... Anyone who has played a FPS game in the last 20 years knows what that means.
Deleted member 182079
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The price of tea going up?Is it time to post the video? I think it's time to post the video
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_3opaV-cOE
Sounds like they're trying to take everything "traditional" about the Elite experience and transpose it to the on-foot experience.
SRVs already melt quickly to ships, and I'd assume a human on foot even moreso.
Oh, and the trailers showed that not only can you walk around, you can crouch... Anyone who has played a FPS game in the last 20 years knows what that means.
Well nowadays with the stations on fire, frequently. Seeing people at inara bases, thargoid crash sites, etc is always fun. So still, frequently.
Honestly my problem is not the pvp itself, it is how player are doing it.
Most PVP encounters are just killing on sight. There is no roleplay, no communication. And if you are not in an all out combat ship you are just done, no chance to react.
A big problem lies in the game design. Playing as a pirate is way too complicated and useless. So it all ends in killing each other without any real reason. And for me there is absolutly no fun in this style of gameplay.
So why do i play in open? To meet other players and perhaps get some cool encounters. If someone plays a pirate in a cool way i have no problem with it, even if he (or she) might destroy my ship. But just blasting my ship into oblivion without even communicating is just boring and no fun.
So if you want pvp: Try to make it fun for the other player too!
Most PVP encounters are just killing on sight. There is no roleplay, no communication. And if you are not in an all out combat ship you are just done, no chance to react.
A big problem lies in the game design. Playing as a pirate is way too complicated and useless. So it all ends in killing each other without any real reason. And for me there is absolutly no fun in this style of gameplay.
So why do i play in open? To meet other players and perhaps get some cool encounters. If someone plays a pirate in a cool way i have no problem with it, even if he (or she) might destroy my ship. But just blasting my ship into oblivion without even communicating is just boring and no fun.
So if you want pvp: Try to make it fun for the other player too!
Sorry but all I see in FPS games now is people jumping around like kangaroos. I wonder why the army never tried that tactic.
They will probably need some counselling, but will survive to gank another day, I'm sure
This is not true at all, you can very easily survive a gank in an unengineered Cobra if you know how.
Please, join my Gank Evasion Academy discord and we will teach you how if you're interested.
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Yes you can but lets be honest: a lot of players dont know how (cudos btw for putting up Help Here) . And even worse: its run or be Destroyed. Thats the part that isnt fun. Its not about loosing Cargo to a pirate or something like this. Its almost everytime: get pulled out of supercruise, get blasted in seconds, look at the rebuy Screen.This is not true at all, you can very easily survive a gank in an unengineered Cobra if you know how.
Please, join my Gank Evasion Academy discord and we will teach you how if you're interested.
Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games
Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.discord.gg
This part of the game needs some Love. For Pirates it should be way more interessting to get the ships cargo, not just destroying it. Diaabling a ship should be easier then just blasting it out of space.
And local police forces should be more active. They should try to hunt down pirates.
And there should be a black market that give you way more money for smuggling wares than the normal market Pass.
That way the game design itself could create better pvp encounters.
Lets just face facts.
PvP pilots are among the most skilled players we he have in this game.
F Devs total disregard for this playstyle imo has been constant and unwavering since launch.
Without any sanctioned or supported outlet for these players the inevitable consequence is ganking by those folk looking to choose player on player interaction as an option to persue non pve combat gameplay.
Imo until we see propper career paths or even just formalized competative structure as a core element this problem isn't going away any time soon.
The real question here is why a development company with such a ground breaking achievment of a game would disincentivise it's highest skill participants?
PvP pilots are among the most skilled players we he have in this game.
F Devs total disregard for this playstyle imo has been constant and unwavering since launch.
Without any sanctioned or supported outlet for these players the inevitable consequence is ganking by those folk looking to choose player on player interaction as an option to persue non pve combat gameplay.
Imo until we see propper career paths or even just formalized competative structure as a core element this problem isn't going away any time soon.
The real question here is why a development company with such a ground breaking achievment of a game would disincentivise it's highest skill participants?
No.
I agree that FD have provided little PvP content, but everyone must be responsible for their own actions.
Gankers gank because they choose to. They gank the ships, whether noob Sidewinders or Elite FdLs, which they choose as targets.
Deleted member 192138
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Hollow square go boom!
There IS a component for competitive skilled players, it's called CQC, it's very good, and yet it takes ages to get a match with four players. Why don't gankers play that? Because they are not in it for competition or a challenge. They're still not bored of killing multipurpose ships in shield-stuffed FDLs. They're attracted to ASPX explorers doing their first meta-alloy runs and cargo ships - not for the cargo, just to frustrate them from the security of using a singular-purpose OP ship. If they got a whiff of genuine competition they would run a mile. Soon you'll have engineered, combat suit-wearing gankers taking on explorers armed with peashooters and scanners, and gankers will still be saying it's just a matter of 'gitting gud'.
If you're a professional wrestler and there are no matches do you go around the street attacking kids?
If Fdev implemented meaningful things to fight over with tempting rewards, there's no doubt in my mind ganking would still be at the level it is today. It's not about being competitive its about getting pleasure in hurting others.
Elite is known for many things but balancing is not one of them. Nor is skill vs reward. The ship side of Elite seems to be nearing completion and we're now branching out sideways into a semi-separate game so I doubt Fdev even see this as an issue let alone plan to remedy it.
You could not be more wrong. Stop making assumptions based on the fantasies in your head.
CQC is utter crap! It forces you to use gimballed weapons and there is very little skill involved.
Have you ever heard of the PvP leagues or the drop in San Tu PvP battles? Well all of it is hosted by gankers and it the most competitive PvP in Elite.
You know nothing about gankers or the PvP community, so knock of the bullspit smears to try to make us look bad.