Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

my previous question about the pleasure in straight killing has rarely been answered: do you actually find pleasure/fun in killing an easy opponent?

Speaking only for myself, I find the PVP aspects of this game immensely rewarding regardless of the outcome of each encounter. Meaning: irrespective of whether I get a kill, or I myself get killed, or the target gets away. Each interaction is its own reward. The outcome is an incidental byproduct.

Open world games like Elite with the possibility of spontaneous PVP mean that you have to be on your guard constantly. You are like one of the creatures in the sea or in the wild. There are some targets you can take on and probably defeat, and there are others that will almost certainly defeat you. You are both hunter and hunted at all times, everywhere. You have to constantly be aware of, and assessing, your situation, making decisions quickly before a failure to act either deprives you of a victory or causes you to suffer a defeat.

The difference in playing with and against human players as compared to NPCs cannot be exaggerated. The NPCs in this game are virtually irrelevant once you've calibrated your gameplay around other players. I can't recall the last time I've failed an NPC interdiction - they are utterly toothless "immersion timers" that are a trivial annoyance and nothing more. I have literally sat and tanked shots from NPC police while chatting with someone in Local, my 4-pipped shields shrugging off the incoming fire like an umbrella sheds rain. Outside of ATR - which I have as yet not even experienced, as I'm not even good enough at ganking to have gotten my notoriety high enough - the NPCs are just sort of there, and are ignored unless we're doing a massacre mission. In which case they are, in fact, executed en masse in the most boring and summary manner imaginable.

There's simply no comparison between the challenge that NPCs present and the challenge that human players present. I am not a particularly talented gamer, but I love facing challenges and overcoming them. It takes me huge amounts of time and effort to "git gud," but it's what I play games for. I have yet to win a single victory in a 1v1 against an experienced PVPer. I'm at that phase where getting a few rings off their shields - or even, rarely, getting their shields knocked down - before I am killed is what has to pass for "progress towards goal."

I don't mind. Elite has a very compelling flight model, a vast open galaxy full of surprises, and a neat community of helpful and mostly wholesome players (yes, I'm in fact talking about the gankers now, among others). Defeating another player of any variety feels good. It took a lot of work - grinding for materials, unlocking engineers, learning the "lay of the land," and no small amount of "getting lucky," to even have the privilege of engaging someone via an interdiction. If I get a win out of it, yeah, it feels good. But not because of any grief I might cause the other player. That doesn't even exist in my thinking, honestly. The friend requests and various interactions I try to have with players are, I believe, evidence of same.
 
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I can be as sporting as you like but it's all for naught when so much of the community are as hard as a bag of marshmallows. Like I've said before, y'all are stepping into a boxing ring and screaming your heads off when hands are being thrown.

You don't understand the rules of the game world, period. Unsavory tactics and approaches are a feature of Elite's gameplay.



Equating all sides like this in any discussion always strikes me as cowardice from peope too afraid to draw conclusions for fear of being disliked.

I know what I know and have seen what I've seen. This many years into the game I've made my bed and I'm happily sleeping in it.

So I'm a coward now? I mean.......done with you...pointless arguing with someone so stuck in their contemptuous concepts. Do one. You are exactly the bottom feeding goits I want to avoid in open.
 
I am a solo/private player because I do understand that open is an "anything goes" enviroment. I choose what I want to be doing and find great joy in it. If my ship blows up because I've made a mistake, so be it... lesson learned and move on. However, open players interdicting other players not looking for that kind of interaction is just selfishly asking [demanding] for the victim to be their entertainment, even if it is to teach them how to survive from being interupted by the likes of themselves.

Let's say I'm off to the store to get some groceries for my apartment. I'm stopped by a guy on the way back who slaps the groceries out of my hand, handing out pamphlets with information on how to get away from people slapping your bags of groceries. I'm sure the pamphlet guy feels he's doing me a favor by showing me how important is to know how to avoid people like him, but... isn't he a part of the problem? I don't enjoy getting my groceries slapped, much less having the time I get to find groceries taken up by unsolicited pamphlets, I really just want to get my groceries home and enjoy the fruits of my labor. So what I've learned is to take the street that doesn't have anybody needing my attention to fulfill their life of grocery slapping or pamphlet giving.

In short, take the PvP'ers advice: Leave open mode for the people that need that kind of interaction. Carebears like me enjoy the game in their own way and there is a place that provides that. This is not a bash on PvP'ers at all, just trying to help those new grocery-getters get home.
 
In short, take the PvP'ers advice: Leave open mode for the people that need that kind of interaction. Carebears like me enjoy the game in their own way and there is a place that provides that. This is not a bash on PvP'ers at all, just trying to help those new grocery-getters get home.
Honestly, the modes exist for this reason. They are not perfect - they're precisely that kind of compromise that leaves everyone a little unhappy.

But they exist. Even PVPers use Solo or PG when they're doing activities - like mining, or hauling tritium, or whatever - that they don't want to be interrupted in.

Knowing when and why to use these tools is in fact another aspect of game mastery. There is zero shame in having a preference for your gaming experience. Open is what it is, and it's definitely not for everyone. Being OK with that is the first step to finding the right way to play for you, as a player.
 
So I'm a coward now? I mean.......done with you...pointless arguing with someone so stuck in their contemptuous concepts. Do one. You are exactly the bottom feeding goits I want to avoid in open.

I don't think you're a coward at all. You're playing the game within parameters that are comfortable for you. The important part for me is that each individual player (not CMDR) is playing the game within their comfort level. For some, this includes not being in open and this is fine. But if you'd ever like to try Open, I for one am more than happy to help you out to make it a better experience for you, one of the safest places to be in open is friends with the very devils that scare people people away.
 
I don't think you're a coward at all. You're playing the game within parameters that are comfortable for you. The important part for me is that each individual player (not CMDR) is playing the game within their comfort level. For some, this includes not being in open and this is fine. But if you'd ever like to try Open, I for one am more than happy to help you out to make it a better experience for you, one of the safest places to be in open is friends with the very devils that scare people people away.
Folks, I've done it. I've turned Cow into a carebear.

MY TRUE ENDGAME PLAN REVEALED, AT LAST!

Muahahahahahah ganking the gankers, indeed!

Just kidding, Cow has always been this nice.
 
I don't think you're a coward at all. You're playing the game within parameters that are comfortable for you. The important part for me is that each individual player (not CMDR) is playing the game within their comfort level. For some, this includes not being in open and this is fine. But if you'd ever like to try Open, I for one am more than happy to help you out to make it a better experience for you, one of the safest places to be in open is friends with the very devils that scare people people away.

I agree. Playing in Solo or Private Group doesn't make you a coward.

What I take issue with is the silly "fairness" of declaring all sides equally bad. It's just not a useful way to think, much less true.
 
I agree. Playing in Solo or Private Group doesn't make you a coward.

What I take issue with is the silly "fairness" of declaring all sides equally bad. It's just not a useful way to think, much less true.
I knew what you meant my old friend. For me it isn't playing in a different "safer" mode but rather those who harangue and denigrate commanders who have an aggressive playstyle. Play how you like but leave the sermonizing at the Start Menu please.
 
@Danquememe you managed to create an absulute great post where carebears and gankers are arguing for many days (lol not that it will change anything)
This thread will reach the 100 pages mark for shure in the next minutes/hours... it was fun to read all this forum pvp
may this reach 200 pages at some point

GG o7 and fly dangerous
I'd also extend a big shout out to the mods for letting such a great discussion continue in Dangerous Discussions
 
I'd also extend a big shout out to the mods for letting such a great discussion continue in Dangerous Discussions
Honestly, it's mostly been the respondents keeping things (mostly) cordial. There have been a few wobbles, but for the most part, I feel like it's been a respectful discussion. It's been a huge influence on my own learning the game - so many people have chimed in with their perspectives, and I've really been educated quite a lot on things that I'd never even heard of in the game.

Big o7 to all the CMDRs who have participated. Thank you!
 
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