General Remove private Lobby and single Player
- Thread starter Black White
- Start date
Yeah - No!
The whole underlying ethos of fronter's mechanics is to NOT encourage PvP combat.
Solo exists because... this is the fourth in a series of single player games that has now added a multiplayer option for those that are into that. Solo vs NPCs is at the very core of what this game is about.
The trouble with Multiplayer games is that being simulations, there are always exploits that are effective in the game world that would never be effective IRL. NPCs don't clog, and they don't use exploits, they also are not vulnerable to some of the exploits that affect actual players.
Solo play is actually more true to the simulation than Multiplayer, so if anything, Open is what needs to go, and re-adjust the BGS to work with co-operative multiplayer Vs NPC.
That is just one facet of it too. There are things that would have to happen to make open only or open weighted work at all, and it sometimes seems like people have not given it even a tiny bit of thought.
You will have to gut the block function. If you don't, wholesale blocking of other factions/players will occur. The desired pewpew will not.
You will have to punish regular disconnects that just happen as a result of crappy networking/internet/terrible game network code/etc., and menu logging, just as harshly as you would actual combat logging. If you don't combat logging and menu logging will become even more common than they are right now.
You will have to require console players pay the sub fees for Gold/PS+ since those are required for online play in ED.
You will have to figure out a way to fix the rather terrible networking this game has, as well as prevent minor tweaks to ones router from preventing them from instancing with anyone.
You would have to convince people that have no interest in Open or pew pew that they should play there when they don't want to. Unless steamrolling PP/BGS with no opposition is the goal.
Also, if you don't have the numbers to win in solo, you probably don't have the numbers to win in open. At the end of the day, manhours fills buckets. If the other side has more available, and they are even reasonably competent, even if you are PvP Gesus, you are likely going to lose. So that would just leave recreational pew pew with people that don't actually want to play with you for however long they bothered to play with you. Likely not long.
It's a terrible idea with the current game due to how much needs changing. That, and how many players would be gained by this, and how many lost. You are going to need to show some ROI here.
mostly all true. don't tell me though that you have never seen npc's warp around in a system, ability to actually jump 300,000 or any distance directly from anywhere.
interdictors for mining missions follow me and my carriers around the bubble and are there, instantly. they fly like thargoids, but with a normal fsd.
They can get 99% damage, and run, and interdict you again 5 seconds later and be at 100%
I have had dogfights with condas, that occasionally can move faster than a vette.
and how many times in a cz do we see ships at 0% and speeding away, can't jump, but they can still haul dust. catch up and at 0% still takes more than 3 rails and a 4a fixed beam and 4A fixed MC, hitting it for a good 40-60 seconds before it goes boom, and if you pause, it will try to run again.
the Thargoid style sc and system distance jumps, we cannot do, is the worst offender.
how an npc python can follow an 80LY jump conda to rohini, or to the shard gardens is fascinating. sure wish I had a python that could do that., fdl's too, geez I would fly that fdl everywhere.
I don't imagine they are using an exploit, possibly(hopefully) just programming errors but its been this way forever.
just pointing that out as it is a big deal.
anyway, back to the topic..
BGS:I can’t disagree with you on Powerplay but the BGS is a bit more abstract, it’s more a game of indirect PvP if anything. In fact, with the current implementation PP is probably the same whether that’s correct or not (@Rubbernuke is my go-to villain for clarifying the way it currently works versus how it should work).
The way the rubbery nuclear one describes it PP is just about traceable in real-time so each player’s activities can be tracked from merit generation (forgive me for my terminology, I don’t Powerplay myself) to delivery and effect. The BGS on the other hand is highly abstracted; if you encounter me in any instance in the galaxy you have no way, other than my naive honesty, to track what I’m doing, what missions I’ve picked up and for what factions I’m pushing/harming influence, barring you catching me doing something obvious such as War states and the like. You can’t ever really follow my actions through to their direct effect on faction influence, so your claim to be ‘opposing’ me by direct PvP is a little fallacious as you have no firm way to know exactly what I’m doing you’re opposing. Unless you’re just annoyed I’m flying around your screen, in which case you’re free to oppose that whatever fashion you wishI’d hardly call it ‘playing the BGS’ though! The best way for you to ‘oppose’ my BGS actions as I understand it is to counter with your own influence push for your supported faction; that is, play the BGS more and smarter!
As ever, if I misunderstand anything about the game mechanics and I’ve got this horribly wrong I’m happy to be corrected!
Works by aggregation and obfuscation of activity- all actions are lumped together at the tick and then an abstracted 'move' is calculated by the BGS. Per player its impossible to really know who is doing what, because you can never really know. You can't scan a rival for missions, or know who they dropped data for because action is separate from result. I can do many things in the BGS invisibly and the only time you'll know is when the tick rolls over.
Add to this that players have no real allegiance (as far as the game thinks) and only squadron tags tell you apart.
Powerplay:
All actions are near / real time- in the UI you can instantly see what people are doing. Undermining is shown in stations in real time, along with bounty boards, pirated PP goods etc. People can haul fort cargo in real time and it updates in near real time. In this regard Powerplay is the diametric opposite of the BGS- it has a very low abstraction.
Add to this: PP has explicit territory per power, everyone has an explicit pledge that is binding, limited cargoes that signal intent that can be scanned. Add these together you know easily and quickly what people are doing. A Patty pledge carrying fortification cargo in his territory is easy to work out, or a Delaine pledge in Groms territory with reports of UM.
Conclusion:
The BGS is (to me) unsuitable for Open only because its not set up for real time action. Powerplay is- at all times you can trace whats going on and see it too, as well as stop it. The only question mark is networking, but if the majority have it working then its worth a try because Powerplay in Open v solo or PG is night and day really.
Gut? PP is opt in so having a no block rule would be you can't block other pledges and anyone who wings with PP pledges inherit those rules. In an open context destruction of rivals is wanted. The only thing that should be blockable is text and voice comms for obvious reasons.
You could do that easily- unless you park safe your ship remains where it is. Its harsh but fair.
You can also engineer PP to have tasks for solo and PG, thus every mode has a job that does not overlap other modes. That, or accept some people in a very niche feature will have to pay for it. The numbers are not exactly large.
So stuff like this is a pipe dream then?
Networking will never be 100%, but if the majority get whats intended then why not try it?
Which is a bit short sighted. Not every power is doing the same things at the same time. Its not like a CG where each side is set equally each week, Powers are often reacting to what other powers are doing.
Well, the only 'real' numbers were from OAs poll of 7700 votes, where 50% wanted Open only, 25% weighted and 25% no change. Given a few thousand play powerplay now, thats a doubling of new players.
In the end you have to ask yourself what role Powerplay has in the game. PP was supposed to be the more action packed part of the game and supplant the BGS for that role. Over time the roles have reversed and the BGS got the love. If you want ROI what do you do? Make two of the same thing or spread what ED offers to players? Having a mini Star Wars Squadrons / Infinity Battlescape inside ED is something worth at least investigating.
Open Only (in whole or part) is one option for Powerplay- it all comes down to what and how much FD want to put into the feature. What open really does is admit the PvE layer is crap and ineffective (as to interfering with solo players- in short, it does nothing to try to stop them). Open makes players those missing NPCs.
The other option is for FD to rewrite the PvE to make it more challenging, and that being on your own is harder. Here are two recent ones of mine:
Powerplay in Solo
That's in the case of the current incarnation of the feature. If OP's measure was enacted, which is the substance of this thread, the roles would be reversed, or partly so. And whether or not to reverse the roles comes down to which players you want to detriment, again. In which case it's a...
Powerplay: Using BGS, burning station, CG, smuggling mechanics to allow Power collapse
This idea makes Powerplay a feature about clandestine warfare that occasionally results in brutal fighting. It uses mechanics from station repair, bits of Powerplay, CGs and the general game. All enemies are the hardest NPCs can be (aside from ATR) and each run is risky because scans have...
Background simulation was designed not as a tool for PvP, but as a way to make every player feel that what they do has some kind of effect and makes the game feel alive, not static. Its only because players love to compete with eachother, BGS became a game of numbers - who can grind more. You need to accept that.
Elite galaxy is dead without players influencing it, as NPC are unable to do anything by themselves, so players in other modes are artificial way of breathing life into it. They simulate that something is happenig out there. Sometimes its just random, when someone just happens to do some mission in your system, other times more planned. If you would be able to stop that (not realistic at all, but...) by stopping players in Open, it would be terrible and sad. It would be like playing chess alone, because you've punched in the face everyone who even approached your table.
OP I'm guessing you are new to the game and to the forums....
In case of serious:
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]
There have been several threads on the topic of switching between solo/private groups/open. This thread is going to be the merge target for all other threads on the topic, no matter how 'unique' the thread creator may think their thread is. Creating a poll is not unique. Posting in here has...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Thats extremly sad on the other side because I don't understand why people wouldn't like to play with others that have the same goal as you are.
I can understand it, if players have other goals then yourself but why are there people, who absolutely despise to play with others? Playing with people will always be more fun in a multiplayer game (Elite or any other game). Always.
It's like sitting home alone without any friends and play boardgames with yourself and saying: "Yup, I have fun".
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And whats the other side? Having no players at all (except your friends).
Sorry OP, but this makes no sense in system rellying on P2P networking and officially allowing players blocking. It simply cannot work (open only) even if will be applied and on second it will be not implemented because there is huge majority of players which like it how it is. If you are in ED for PvP, then you need to accept a fact that you will meet only people which want to play with PvP in mind or are newbies which have no idea how this game work.
Is this the damascene moment? I hope so.
People who want to play with others, can. Pipe up if you want or need to find active player groups who are open only and compete against others.
People who don't want to play with others, can. I criticise Fdev a lot, but the modes are an elegant solution you have to agree.
I'm still hoping for an optional PvP meta (to my mind what powerplay should be) but the key word in this is "optional"
Do you ever asked a player what he is interested in or do you automaticly asume no one doesn't fit your playstyle? When I meet someone and I am up for that, I ask that person via in-game chat what he is doing right now and if he wants to wing up. Sadly most people don't respond but if, it can be a lot of fun and making new friends as I described with the Guardian site. I'll never understand, why people want to play multiplayer games (Elite or any other game) alone, it's always more fun with more players.
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This is MMO game, made in unusual ways. Instead "party" with others it does BGS including privates. That is how MMO part is done. You're never alone in private too.
Works by design. If you don't like it, try classical MMOs like wow.
My entire collection of boardgames are ones that include solo gameplay modules, which are terribly good fun when my long-distance gaming group cannot meet (which is most of the time for me being distanced from them).
In the same vein people with poorer internet connections, or who can’t/don’t pay console tax, or just don’t plain like a lot of random people choose to play games, even MMOs (and I’d argue that Elite isn’t really a ‘pure’ MMO anyway) on their own. Elite is wonderful in providing you with a filter in the form of the modes for each and every gameplay session.
I understand why people want to play in Solo, and I say this as someone who mostly plays in Open.
Maybe Elite just isn't the game for you, have you thought of trying Star Citizen?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
All players bought a game where all players affect the BGS, Powerplay, CGs, etc. with no requirement at all to play among other players to affect any game feature (except for CQC) in the six years since launch.
Some players are unable to accept that PvP is an optional extra that they cannot force others to engage in.
If Frontier were to consider significant changes then it'd be more equitable to duplicate the galaxy and create an Open only mode which affected the "new" galaxy, leaving the existing tri-modal shared galaxy as it is. The galaxies would quickly diverge so moving assets between them would need to be blocked to avoid trivial exploitation.
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there are a lot of large groups of players that play together.
Other than that, gankers are everywhere seal clubbing always.
and on top of that an awful lot of the players are loners and so very many of us like that a lot.
I play only in open, but I cannot stand the systems where these types hang out, its like going to the liquor store and all the towns bullies are there, yapping a mile a minute, teasing everyone and stealing.
Its actually disgusting to watch.
And so very sad it is allowed, but I get it. So I ignore it.
but the biggest thing in this thread, is a new person coming in making statements like he's going to fix it all up and sadly some of the wording upset a lot of people.
Enjoy the game, enjoy the company you do find, if possible.
maybe turn the tone down a bit till you get the feel of the place.
There is much anger lately because of Odyssey, so there will be outbursts.
not my place or intent to tell you what to do or how to behave, just a little cautious advice because you are new and its never fun to watch gang attacks.
Other than that, gankers are everywhere seal clubbing always.
and on top of that an awful lot of the players are loners and so very many of us like that a lot.
I play only in open, but I cannot stand the systems where these types hang out, its like going to the liquor store and all the towns bullies are there, yapping a mile a minute, teasing everyone and stealing.
Its actually disgusting to watch.
And so very sad it is allowed, but I get it. So I ignore it.
but the biggest thing in this thread, is a new person coming in making statements like he's going to fix it all up and sadly some of the wording upset a lot of people.
Enjoy the game, enjoy the company you do find, if possible.
maybe turn the tone down a bit till you get the feel of the place.
There is much anger lately because of Odyssey, so there will be outbursts.
not my place or intent to tell you what to do or how to behave, just a little cautious advice because you are new and its never fun to watch gang attacks.