Roadmap leaked??

[[VR] optimal_909]

Or, hear me out here, some players just get burnt out or bored of a game after hundreds or thousands of hours (which is perfectly normal after such large times, in any game), can´t cope with the loss and decide instead to "hurt" the very thing they have spent so many hours with by dumping that feeling on the forums to fill that hole? Best recommendation in those cases? Take a break overall and come back when there is something new to try that may pick your interest. No harmed feelings.

I partly agree, and hell do I disagree with those saying this game lacks gameplay or content.

While I got burnt out of the game, I still think it is a landmark title. Sometimes I still have the itch to play it, but exactly this is why I'm sad (and I believe this is the issue for most players like me) that the excitement surrounding it, like the narrative (mysteries), the teasers, the commander chronicles and the whole aura broke down. A house lit up, but seemingly nobody inside.

And the thing is, it would be so easy and cost-effective to fix many if these issues. An AMA with Braben, streams about lore (not lame gameplay and giveaways) or simply saying 'yes' to Drew Wagar. Actually I feel the 'game abandoned' its (old) players, not vice-versa.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Every single game featuring space ships can deliver pew pew or epic fantasy-space visuals. That's just absolutely not what I am looking for when playing a (real) space sim.

I do agree with this but it gets (imo) a harder argument to fall back on when we get space wizards and enchantments (engineers and special effects) and holome which goes against already established lore and a bunch of other niggles which chip at the obviously carefully crafted milky way.
What I don't want to happen for ED is for basically it to always pick the weak option just because it is the "easy to implement" option all the time.

So sure if we are going to have 99.99% of systems essentially the same as each other because it is realistic ... Then keep away from the fantasy tropes and spend a lot of times thinking about internal consistency and semi plausibility (the hallmark of good sci-fi). OR if FD really want to embrace a space fantasy game which is pick up and play and has some nice shinies then I hope they don't use "because unrealistic" when it comes to adding exciting things into space in the game. If we are gonna have space wizards then May as well have space rainbows and unicorns...... (Not my 1st choice) but what I really don't want if for ED to be a box of chocolates where all we get are the dark chocolates, hard caramels and coffee creams just because they are the path of least resistance in terms of Dev time.

(Actually I like dark chocolate and coffee cremes as it happens )

Recent point in question.. crew rescue.
The entire purpose of crew was to give us something to bond with and potentially lose. Perhaps what we had was too cruel but what we have now is just cheap. It could have been so souch better with gameplay involved, with still a chance of loss AND more realistic.

Instead we got click rebuy

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I do agree with this but it gets (imo) a harder argument to fall back on when we get space wizards and enchantments (engineers and special effects) and holome which goes against already established lore and a bunch of other niggles which chip at the obviously carefully crafted milky way.
What I don't want to happen for ED is for basically it to always pick the weak option just because it is the "easy to implement" option all the time.

So sure if we are going to have 99.99% of systems essentially the same as each other because it is realistic ... Then keep away from the fantasy tropes and spend a lot of times thinking about internal consistency and semi plausibility (the hallmark of good sci-fi). OR if FD really want to embrace a space fantasy game which is pick up and play and has some nice shinies then I hope they don't use "because unrealistic" when it comes to adding exciting things into space in the game. If we are gonna have space wizards then May as well have space rainbows and unicorns...... (Not my 1st choice) but what I really don't want if for ED to be a box of chocolates where all we get are the dark chocolates, hard caramels and coffee creams just because they are the path of least resistance in terms of Dev time.

(Actually I like dark chocolate and coffee cremes as it happens )

Recent point in question.. crew rescue.
The entire purpose of crew was to give us something to bond with and potentially lose. Perhaps what we had was too cruel but what we have now is just cheap. It could have been so souch better with gameplay involved, with still a chance of loss AND more realistic.

Instead we got click rebuy

I think you are confusing holome and telepresence. I hate galaxy wide instant telepresence. I can live with SLF low range telepresence as we have similar technology already.

But I agree with the engineers analogy. It is a bit like magic, but I suppose advanced tech can look like magic for people that don't understand it.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I'd advise anyone (and frequently do oddly enough) to only play the games they actually like. Anything else sort of misses the whole point of them.

So people should not ask for change they should simply stop playing... OK!

 

[Stigbob]

So people should not ask for change they should simply stop playing... OK!

No, you just made that up.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I am afraid it is true, man, and applicable to a ton of cases here. Obviously not saying all of them as that would be hard and unfair. And, by the way, you also see the same behaviour in those other games you cite too and many others, especially those games that are in constant growth and evolution, like mmos. Demands about fixes and changes you can find them in all those, and even in larger numbers in some cases. And often times the more hours the player complaining has (i.e. the closer to burn out or boredom) the harsher and the more disproportionate the criticism.

The more disproportionate criticism often comes after the defence of the game by those still enthralled,
MMO's not really my thing so I don't trawl the forums looking for an argument, I do see many claim to love ED but spend much of their time trawling the forums defending it instead of playing it, the other games and sims I mentioned perhaps get trolled on their forums but not by me, you could draw a conclusion there that Elite falls into a category separate from those for me as I want to play the game but I want to play the game I bought not the one it's morphed into.

 

[VR Golgot]

Can everyone stop saying known things in the leak thread?

 

[Stigbob]

The more disproportionate criticism often comes after the defence of the game by those still enthralled,

How very dare people say they like the thing, how incredibly enraging. Who could ever have anticipated such a thing happening in the things own forum. Outrageous.

MMO's not really my thing so I don't trawl the forums looking for an argument, I do see many claim to love ED but spend much of their time trawling the forums defending it instead of playing it, the other games and sims I mentioned perhaps get trolled on their forums but not by me, you could draw a conclusion there that Elite falls into a category separate from those for me as I want to play the game but I want to play the game I bought not the one it's morphed into.

I like the way its been improved. Looking forward to more.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

How very dare people say they like the thing, how incredibly enraging. Who could ever have anticipated such a thing happening in the things own forum. Outrageous.

Trying to provoke those less than happy seems to be a pastime for some... and I suppose it's a good way to shut down a thread too!

 

[Stigbob]

Trying to provoke those less than happy seems to be a pastime for some... and I suppose it's a good way to shut down a thread too!

A conspiracy to close threads ?. Very unlikely.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I think you are confusing holome and telepresence. I hate galaxy wide instant telepresence. I can live with SLF low range telepresence as we have similar technology already.

But I agree with the engineers analogy. It is a bit like magic, but I suppose advanced tech can look like magic for people that don't understand it.

Ok accepted it was telepresence I meant(sorry was rushing) The limited range in SLFs is ok (imo) but telepresence undermines the whole game.
As for technology looking like magic in the future... Again accepted ..... Hell you could argue travel in ED equally far fetched and yet I am fine with it. It isn't the power of the engineered weapons per se on their own in a vaccum it is how they don't fit within the rest of the human technology.
It is almost like building a game based around steam engines, sail boats and cannons and then over night introducing air craft carriers, jet fighters and machine guns.

We have it now and there will be no going back BUT my point is all of the jarring stuff added to the game imo erodes against the argument of building around science and trying to make the game feel (a little bit) like a sim. I will have fun with it regardless of if space fantasy or science fiction but I just hope FD don't pick the worst bits from both sides.

 

[Viajero]

The more disproportionate criticism often comes after the defence of the game by those still enthralled,

Or not, maybe those "defences" come due to the complete disproportionate and odd nature of some of those criticisms, who knows.

I personally have not seen very different or specific behaviours here when compared to other games I have played, espetially long term evolving games like mmos or similar.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Or not, maybe those "defences" come due to the complete disproportionate and odd nature of some of those criticisms, who knows.

There's a positive feedback loop of disproportionality, which ends up with both sides of the argument just looking silly.

 

[Viajero]

There's a positive feedback loop of disproportionality, which ends up with both sides of the argument just looking silly.

Agree

 

[Patrick_68000]

David's said a lot of things, but I don't think he's ever claimed he's a god. You may be getting confused with David Icke.

David is a God for many people I think, at least in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Kaocraft]

Yes

I do agree with this but it gets (imo) a harder argument to fall back on when we get space wizards and enchantments (engineers and special effects) and holome which goes against already established lore and a bunch of other niggles which chip at the obviously carefully crafted milky way.
What I don't want to happen for ED is for basically it to always pick the weak option just because it is the "easy to implement" option all the time.

So sure if we are going to have 99.99% of systems essentially the same as each other because it is realistic ... Then keep away from the fantasy tropes and spend a lot of times thinking about internal consistency and semi plausibility (the hallmark of good sci-fi). OR if FD really want to embrace a space fantasy game which is pick up and play and has some nice shinies then I hope they don't use "because unrealistic" when it comes to adding exciting things into space in the game. If we are gonna have space wizards then May as well have space rainbows and unicorns...... (Not my 1st choice) but what I really don't want if for ED to be a box of chocolates where all we get are the dark chocolates, hard caramels and coffee creams just because they are the path of least resistance in terms of Dev time.

(Actually I like dark chocolate and coffee cremes as it happens )

Recent point in question.. crew rescue.
The entire purpose of crew was to give us something to bond with and potentially lose. Perhaps what we had was too cruel but what we have now is just cheap. It could have been so souch better with gameplay involved, with still a chance of loss AND more realistic.

Instead we got click rebuy

Yes. This is the kind of distinction that gets lost in the hyperbole, but it is key. There's this tendency amongst apologists to vaccilate between "it's more realistic!" and "it's a gaaaaaame!" whenever it's
convenient to take either tack, but in either case they're almost always defending design decisions which were made for no other reason than because they're easy to do. And on their own merits, they mostly stink.

I bought into Elite because at the time it was the most tasteful, grounded, classy compromise between 2001-esque 1970s hard sci-fi and rollicking space adventure. Over the years it has become . . . not that. Which could be fine, except that what we have now is a visionless grab bag of derivative me-too features welded onto the vestiges of a deeply eroded hard sci-fi simulation-y type of game, and uh it kind of sucks.

Like hey Frontier if you wanna make Star Fox, go right ahead, but in that case get rid of travel time, give us characters and voice acting and some setpiece battles where we fly inside the alien mothership and blow up the core - otherwise I dont know why youre whittling away at the realistic, grounded, immersively boring ™ aspects of your game, here.

tl, dr: Crew rebuy is bad and we should all feel bad.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Ok accepted it was telepresence I meant(sorry was rushing) The limited range in SLFs is ok (imo) but telepresence undermines the whole game.
As for technology looking like magic in the future... Again accepted ..... Hell you could argue travel in ED equally far fetched and yet I am fine with it. It isn't the power of the engineered weapons per se on their own in a vaccum it is how they don't fit within the rest of the human technology.
It is almost like building a game based around steam engines, sail boats and cannons and then over night introducing air craft carriers, jet fighters and machine guns.

We have it now and there will be no going back BUT my point is all of the jarring stuff added to the game imo erodes against the argument of building around science and trying to make the game feel (a little bit) like a sim. I will have fun with it regardless of if space fantasy or science fiction but I just hope FD don't pick the worst bits from both sides.

They have an amazing ability to pick the worst of both worlds. It's called "exciting".

 

[JonesTheFilm]

I bought into Elite because at the time it was the most tasteful, grounded, classy compromise between 2001-esque 1970s hard sci-fi and rollicking space adventure. Over the years it has become . . . not that. Which could be fine, except that what we have now is a visionless grab bag of derivative me-too features welded onto the vestiges of a deeply eroded hard sci-fi simulation-y type of game, and uh it kind of sucks.

Well, this is pretty much where I am with Elite Dangerous now too. I still play it occasionally but it doesn't seem to me that it's been growing and improving over time... more like expanding but diluting - like the developers have lost any real sense of where they're going with it.
I hope this 'new era' brings something special.

 

[Stinja]

.. it doesn't seem to me that it's been growing and improving over time... more like expanding but diluting - like the developers have lost any real sense of where they're going with it.

Yeah i'm thinking it's not a road map we should be demanding, but a vision statement: just what IS Elite: Dangerous in the minds of the designers, and where are we going.

I'm happy to accept hard space-sim or rollicking space adventure, just pick a side and then message that to us. Meaningfully.

 

[Cosmo]

Yeah i'm thinking it's not a road map we should be demanding, but a vision statement: just what IS Elite: Dangerous in the minds of the designers, and where are we going.

I'm happy to accept hard space-sim or rollicking space adventure, just pick a side and then message that to us. Meaningfully.

It's something in between. It's not a hard space-sim, because we don't have 100% realistic space flight due to various limitations on maneuverability and speed.

Well, this is pretty much where I am with Elite Dangerous now too. I still play it occasionally but it doesn't seem to me that it's been growing and improving over time... more like expanding but diluting - like the developers have lost any real sense of where they're going with it.

You're entitled to your opinion. When comparing vanilla ED with the current version it's a lot better. See this wiki page for a list of improvements over the years.